stew560 Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 I'll stick with what I've felt in my many rides, and others felt at the commercial shoot as well. Also, if you do some digging on rec.roller-coaster you will see some stuff that an engineer that worked on Kingda Ka said that will back up what I said. I think that someone who worked on the ride would know more than any of us. Trust me, I had 62 rides to contemplate all of this. I wouldn't just say all of this just to say it, especially on an internet forum where I have nothing to gain from it. ^ 57.5 rides here and I think I know what I felt. And Me and RJ aren't the Only Ones who have felt this either... (Miss ya over there RJ!) I never said I was a Mech Eng, but if you look at how the system is designed, with the multiple accumulators and multiple delivery systems (hoses) for the fluid to travel in from the accumulators to the motors, I can totally see how there could be a disturbance in the force (ok that was stretch!) of the launch. The pulses aren't like switching gears, it's just like ZooooMZoOOooOoMZoOOOOOM faster and faster. Have you seen video of the motor during a launch? The hoses jerk all about. I'm not saying I believe this IS the cause, just that it is possible. I think the whole 400+ should be stopped here untill its completely refined. Totally Agree! Ka shakes like a mother (especially in the back) and it is totally unacceptable! If I paid $25+ Million for a ride, I would be sooooo pissed right now! Don't get me wrong, the thing is an incredible ride! And definetly in my Top 5 Steels, (No I haven't been to CP) but it shouldn't shake like it does. Six Flags? Rush Construction? NEVER! But I don't think rushed construction is to blame for the motor. That seems more like a manufactured part... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougr Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 That's where LIMs were so promising. Looks like Superman at Magic Mountain is showing its age, though. I could picture a monster coaster with a 100+ mph launch and computer-controlled LIMS about half way up and at the top hat. They would check your speed and give you another boost if needed. Also, LIMs can be used for braking if you get too much of a tailwind. I'm also thinking they're going to have to put bug shields on the front row someday. :shock: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coasterlover420 Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 ^ 57.5 rides here and I think I know what I felt. And Me and RJ aren't the Only Ones who have felt this either... (Miss ya over there RJ!) I never said I was a Mech Eng, but if you look at how the system is designed, with the multiple accumulators and multiple delivery systems (hoses) for the fluid to travel in from the accumulators to the motors, I can totally see how there could be a disturbance in the force (ok that was stretch!) of the launch. The pulses aren't like switching gears, it's just like ZooooMZoOOooOoMZoOOOOOM faster and faster. Have you seen video of the motor during a launch? The hoses jerk all about. I'm not saying I believe this IS the cause, just that it is possible. Totally Agree! Ka shakes like a mother (especially in the back) and it is totally unacceptable! If I paid $25+ Million for a ride, I would be sooooo pissed right now! Don't get me wrong, the thing is an incredible ride! And definetly in my Top 5 Steels, (No I haven't been to CP) but it shouldn't shake like it does. Six Flags? Rush Construction? NEVER! But I don't think rushed construction is to blame for the motor. That seems more like a manufactured part... I see that the majority of the people on that site voted for what I support (and my dad who stood with me for 10 of my TTD rides) (so what kind of backup info is that?). I know about the shaking and I do agree about that, it's obvious even on TV, but the system is designed to release all of the accumulators at once, not at different times. Otherwise the train would never get up to 128. Agree with one more thing...great ride (just not my best). That's where LIMs were so promising. Looks like Superman at Magic Mountain is showing its age, though. I could picture a monster coaster with a 100+ mph launch and computer-controlled LIMS about half way up and at the top hat. They would check your speed and give you another boost if needed. Also, LIMs can be used for braking if you get too much of a tailwind. I'm also thinking they're going to have to put bug shields on the front row someday. Lims are not as quick as hydraulics, though. And I think a bugshield would look retarded. Also, it's kinda fun to get hit by bugs, though (it's kinda like riding in the rain). But when you're going that fast, bugs don't tend to get in your face because of the train designs. It's because you put your hands up. (at least I never got hit by a bug in the face) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjholla2003 Posted January 8, 2006 Share Posted January 8, 2006 What's rec.roller-coaster? and you can't always believe what mechanics of the actual ride tell you. They would think you are trying to steal their idea, or something. I never trust anyone who built the ride or owns it. As for the ride-ops, what do they know about the ride? rec.roller-coaster is a Usenet newsgroup. Also, the comments I'm talking about are not from a "mere mechanic", but an engineer that works for Intamin and actually played a part in designing the ride. Also, I doubt that they would thing that a coaster enthusiast that was invited to the topping off of Kingda Ka was "trying to steal their idea". Patents would protect against that anyway. Also, like Stew pointed out, a lot of people felt the pulses, so obviously it is a proven fact that the coaster does in fact pulse. You can't debate that. In any event, like I stated before, I'll go with the words of the engineer that helped design the coaster than someone who happens to have a lot of mechanical knowledge. As for the vibration and all of the other things bad with the stratas that were said, I also agree. Kingda Ka should not be so shakey in the back. When the train launches, you should not see the launch track rocking back and forth as if it were banking itself as the train was passing through. Intamin has a lot of problems with the strata coasters that have to be worked out, and I think part of the problem is that responsiblilty for their problems are usually deferred from them. If something happens with TTD, then the park is doing it's best and that's just the nature of the coaster. If something happens with Ka, then "Sux Flags sux0rz!!!111!!1!" and they should learn how to maintain a coaster. No one looks at the real issue, which is that Intamin is putting out problematic coasters. Now, this is not to say that I dislike Kingda Ka, because it's one of my favorite coasters and I think it delivers some of the greatest thrills that money can buy. But, that does not change the fact that it, along with TTD are not anywhere close to be reliable. For those that like to blame Great Adventure for Ka's issues, look at TTD's freshman season and say that Cear Point is to blame. People like to have it both ways, but you can't. Top Thrill Dragster had lots of attention, but it still had a major breakdown it's first season. Granted, it wasn't as bad as Ka's first season, but it was still down for a long time. Then take a look at this season. People like to say that these coasters have a "break in" period and that they perform better when they are broken in. At the beginning of the season (being when they were both running), they had nearly identical track records. Ka would overheat every now and again, but it would get back up rather quickly and everything was fine. Then it had it's big breakdown and it was down for around two months. It also was closed for another additional 3 days or so when someone's hat got caught in the launch track, and two other "mystery days". Top Thrill Dragster was closed for a week for what was found otu to be a problem with oil leaking into the lagoon, closed for a month for what people thought was a gearbox problem, but ended up being the lagoon again, opened for one weekend, and closed for another month to end the season. If the park that the coaster is in is the problem, and these coasters run better when they are broken in, why are the both about dead even with their downtime this season? Well, if CP is having problems with TTD, then it's obviously not a SF problem. And Lord knows that all of the fanboys in the world won't let anyone say that it's a CF problem. I'll tell you what it is, it's an "Intamin Problem" Intamin is to blame with these two coasters and their problems. Even though they are both great rides that deliver great thrills, they are shoddy and should have been designed better. Hopefully in the future Intamin learns how to design them better so that these issues don't happen. Hopefully these two stratas are fixed, or the parks learn how to deal with them so they can resemble reliable rides. It's kind of funny how all of this came about from a POV. I guess they are just as interesting as conversation pieces as they are to ride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shepp Posted January 8, 2006 Share Posted January 8, 2006 Intamin has a lot of problems with the strata coasters that have to be worked out, and I think part of the problem is that responsiblilty for their problems are usually deferred from them. If something happens with TTD, then the park is doing it's best and that's just the nature of the coaster. If something happens with Ka, then "Sux Flags sux0rz!!!111!!1!" and they should learn how to maintain a coaster. No one looks at the real issue, which is that Intamin is putting out problematic coasters. . Thank you. Interestingly, there's another thread on the board about how GL flopped once CF took over from SF. But in the minds of the fanboy masses, SF is still the devil incarnate, spewing green vomit and masturbating with a crucifix... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaos Posted January 8, 2006 Share Posted January 8, 2006 I thought that GL flopped because they took out the animal part. Both Cedar Point and Great Adventure are trying to keep their coasters open, but it does seem like KingdaKa is closed for longer periods of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coasterlover420 Posted January 8, 2006 Share Posted January 8, 2006 ^There you go! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rydel Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 Thanks for posting...yeah its funny how this video does make Kingda Ka look slower and shorter (as in height). There are others that do make it look fast though. Oh well, we hope to ride it next season. I like the one on the official website. http://www.sixflags.com/parks/greatadventure/golden_kingdom/media.html Is there any way to save this to my hard drive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjholla2003 Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 GAInsider.com may have the virtual POV buried somewhere on their site. If it's there, you'll have to do some digging. Gadv Central had it too, but that site is not closed and points to Gadv Updates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpengeist04 Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 I know I'm a few days late, but I have to back up rj and stew on this one. When I rode KK, 2 days prior to the major shut down, I felt 3 tugs or pulses on the launch. I'm not sure what the reason is, but it felt like pulses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattJackson Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 ^ just imagine TTD about 36 ft taller and 9 MPH faster and someone saying "HOLY fudging SHIT!" at the top. KK's launch seems slower at launch, I counted 6 second acceleration, and in most TTD POV's it takes only 3-4 for it to accelerate. and TTD goes 120! since the difference on speed acceleration? KK gets 128 in 4 seconds and TTD Gets 120 in 2.8 seconds. That's one of the best POV videos I've seen of any rocket coaster (aside from the ones from the actual park)! Usually as they start, the camera goes crazy and somehow finds the track in front of it. Yeah, changing the facts won't make it any better. KK goes 128 in 3.5, and TTD goes 120 in 4. KK, acording to coaster-net.com, has the third fastest acceleration on a coaster, while TTD has the fifth, being separated by Storm Runner. The website even says 120 in four seconds! I think they'd know better then you would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rollermonkey Posted January 14, 2006 Share Posted January 14, 2006 ^ I'm assuming that Dodonpa's kick in the chest at 106.9 mph in 1.8 seconds is the #1 fastest acceleration? It almost hurts! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpengeist04 Posted January 14, 2006 Share Posted January 14, 2006 I believe Dodonpa is first, and Hypersonic XL is second. Correct me, if I'm wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WadeJ Posted January 14, 2006 Share Posted January 14, 2006 GAInsider.com may have the virtual POV buried somewhere on their site. If it's there, you'll have to do some digging. Gadv Central had it too, but that site is not closed and points to Gadv Updates. I have the old site backed up on my work PC. If I remember (or you remind me!), I'll post a link to it I'll totally 100% backup what RJ and Stew said. When the launch pulses, expect a typical ride where you creep over the top. When its one long pull, its basically considered a overlaunch which IMO is the real reasoning behind the holding brake on the downside of the tophat. If you haven't had one of these launches then you haven't ridden the real Kingda Ka. Those of us involved with the commercial shoots and media days or those that just go to the park way to often know this ride a little bit too well. You really can tell what kind of mood the ride is in by the launch. As for the video, nice job getting something that looks that good under 8MB. Perhaps there should have been a disclaimer about the f-bomb though ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rider117 Posted January 14, 2006 Share Posted January 14, 2006 I have the Kingda Ka animation on my computer. I also experienced one night when they were launching Ka at around 130-135, it was probaly one of the best and coldest rides on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coasterlover420 Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 I'll totally 100% backup what RJ and Stew said. When the launch pulses, expect a typical ride where you creep over the top. When its one long pull, its basically considered a overlaunch which IMO is the real reasoning behind the holding brake on the downside of the tophat. If you haven't had one of these launches then you haven't ridden the real Kingda Ka. Those of us involved with the commercial shoots and media days or those that just go to the park way to often know this ride a little bit too well. You really can tell what kind of mood the ride is in by the launch. As for the video, nice job getting something that looks that good under 8MB. Perhaps there should have been a disclaimer about the f-bomb though ? I have very obviously ridden the REAL KK much more consiously than you have. Yeah, changing the facts won't make it any better. KK goes 128 in 3.5, and TTD goes 120 in 4. KK, acording to coaster-net.com, has the third fastest acceleration on a coaster, while TTD has the fifth, being separated by Storm Runner. The website even says 120 in four seconds! I think they'd know better then you would. I know better than you do, though. Just get a lot of videos of these rides and get a stopwatch! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HCOSurfer90 Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 ^I may be a fanboy..but I swear this guys worse than me Ok first off, for one thing all websites confirm that KK went 128 mph in 3 seconds. A stopwatch has error and how can you tell when its at its at speed? If you did your research you'd see it too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coasterlover420 Posted January 19, 2006 Share Posted January 19, 2006 I did my research, tried first hand, and didn't trust anything but physics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjholla2003 Posted January 20, 2006 Share Posted January 20, 2006 I had a post that was lost in teh crash. I'll try to recreate it as best I can. Coasterlover, let's try to keep it respectable here. Just because someone has a viewpoint, or evidence, that supports the opposing view doesn't mean that you have to get disrespectful. Obviously, if there are *many* people on the internet that felt the pulsing there is pulsing. I've had friends tell me about the pulsing, and I didn't even ask them what the launch was like in a specific way like that. I've had kids come up to me at the summer camp I work at and tell me that they felt pulses during the launch, and I never mentioned it to them, nor prompted them to say it. The pulses do exist. Like I said before and will keep saying, I will always trust the words of the Intamin engineer who was explaining things about the coaster to people over someone who simply knows a thing or two about hydraulics. Obviously this is more conplicated and intricate than the systems you have experienced in the past. Also, if you ride it a lot, you can feel some of the things like how the acceleration stops around the 3.5 second mark on a strong launch. That's something where you won't get overwheling testimonial abotu it because there are not many of us who got to ride so much. Also, I'll go with the official stat of the full acceleration taking place on average in 3.5 seconds. Especially when it's explained by an Intamin engineer that the longer-than-necessary launch is there to reduce rollbacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coasterlover420 Posted January 20, 2006 Share Posted January 20, 2006 Screw this. I know what I'm talking about and I don't think this topic needs to go on. It was about a POV video someone made that was rather good. Not the stats of the ride's mechanical counterparts. I am happy with the results I have come up with and, right or wrong, I believe they are true. I do not trust what the parks tell me, and I do not trust anyone else who kisses up to them. I trust what I have experienced first hand and that's all anyone needs to trust and should trust. Good Day!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Cool Posted January 20, 2006 Share Posted January 20, 2006 ^Somebody is getting a little mad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjholla2003 Posted January 20, 2006 Share Posted January 20, 2006 Screw this. I know what I'm talking about and I don't think this topic needs to go on. It was about a POV video someone made that was rather good. Not the stats of the ride's mechanical counterparts. I am happy with the results I have come up with and, right or wrong, I believe they are true. I do not trust what the parks tell me, and I do not trust anyone else who kisses up to them. I trust what I have experienced first hand and that's all anyone needs to trust and should trust. Good Day!! Just because someone is an A-lister to a park does *not* mean that they suck up to the park. Case-in-point: Steve Urbanowitz. (R.I.P) In the end, you'll believe what you want, and we'll believe what we felt. Nothing's going to change anyone's view here, especially when your body is telling you something without a doubt. It has gone on much longer than I think any of us have anticipated. Good day to you too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattJackson Posted January 20, 2006 Share Posted January 20, 2006 OMG!! Nothing like a little research to prove someone wrong! Boy was he pissed! Besides, does acceleration even matter? As long as it gets to its top speed, what does it matter how fast it gets to that speed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjholla2003 Posted January 20, 2006 Share Posted January 20, 2006 IMO, it matters a lot. The acceleration on Kingda Ka halfway makes the ride. If the launch didn't accelerate as fast as it does, then it wouldn't be nearly as breathtaking as it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattJackson Posted January 20, 2006 Share Posted January 20, 2006 ^ Okay, I got it now. - Acceleration (MPH per sec) > 1. Dodonpa, Fujikyu Highlands; 64mphps/102.9kphps 2. HyperSonic XLC, Paramount's Kings Dominion; 47mphps/75.6kphps 3. Kingda Ka, Six Flags Great Adventure; 36.5mphps/58.7kphps 4. Storm Runner, Hersheypark; 36mphps/57.9kphps 5. Xcelerator, Knott's Berry Farm; 35.6mphps/57.2kphps 6. Top Thrill Dragster, Cedar Point; 30mphps/48.2kphps 7. Joker's Jinx, Six Flags America / Mad Cobra, Suzuka Circuit / Poltergeist, Six Flags Fiesta Texas; 21mphps/33.7kphps 8. Rock 'N' Roller Coaster, Disneyland Resort Paris / Rock 'N' Roller Coaster, Disney's MGM Studios; 20.3mphps/32.6kphps 9. Incredible Hulk Coaster, Islands of Adventure; 20mphps/32.1kphps 10. Superman: the Ride, Walibi World; 19.9mphps/32kphps That's the top 10 acceleration records from coaster-net.com, for everyone who asked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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