Six Flags America (SFA) Discussion Thread

[Erik Johnson]

As EBL said the word "ghetto" is refering to a level of how crappy a park is (at least in TPR terms), not as a reference to park guests. I personally would not call SFA ghetto, it does have some nice areas and great coasters. I just find that for my 2 visits (and I am not a local mind you) were very lackluster and fustrating. I mean, 3 train dispatches on Batwing in 50 minutes?? Sure slow operations and so-so customer service might be fine for the locals, but as someone who travels to different theme parks around the country, it is a huge disappointment.

[carolinacaniac]

^I have to agree with Erik that the thing about SFA isn't the appearance of the park, but the lack of effort on the part of many of the employees. In the four visits I have made to the park, only the first one (2006) was what I would consider a great visit. On that day, the lines were fairly short, and the wait for the rides were minimal as there was two train operation on all of those that could (except for Joker's Jinx which was closed due to the Chiller accident, and Mind Eraser only had one train running).

 

The other three visits were filled with minimal operations of either one train on many coasters, or many rides were closed for the whole day (In a visit I made last year in mid-June, it seemed like only the coasters and the waterpark were open, as many of the flat rides were not operating). To be fair, I will give them credit for the fact that both woodies had two trains on every visit I have made to the park.

 

I don't know that I would make a point to go back to SFA over other parks, but if they can pick operations back up to a level more on par with other parks in the chain based on the reports of others, than I may be more willing to.

[airtime]

I think a general rule of thumb should be don't go to SFA during the weekdays until at least June 20th. Local school systems don't get out like they do in other areas of the country, creating a staffing shortage on weekdays between Memorial Day and around June 20th. I went yesterday, everything was running well, including Skull Mountain and the park was sufficently staffed. Unfortunately, I think part of the black eye for the park is those first few weeks in June when the rest of the country is out of school and they are still open. Local colleges have let out, school is still in session, graduations are going on and senior week in Ocean City is occuring. The same can be said for mid-late August.

[KDCOASTERFAN]

^Yeah I agree with you 100% with the locals not caring about slow operations. I go to SFA atleast 2 times a week and I always have fun, whether I ride all the coasters or just hangout with friends. I also think the "ghetto" statements are kind of racist since alot of black people (including myself) live around and visit SFA. I think people just shouldn't call a mainly black area park ghetto because that can start up some really crazy comment wars.

 

As someone who patronized the park for 9 full seasons as a passholder(and two as a paying customer in the years prior) I must say that no matter how many times I've ridden any given ride I simply do not appreciate the policies put in place regarding flashpass & the lockers.

 

Had KD done the same things in terms of operations I'd complain just as much & it would impact my decision on wether or not to visit the park so it's not entirely all a bout the lack of new additions at SFA for me.

 

Speaking of additions: with two face supposedly on the chopping block I wonder if a whole SWT makeover is in the works? They could also remove TOD while they're at it.

[Jcoaster]

The park looks like it could use a B&M.

[KDCOASTERFAN]

The park looks like it could use a B&M.

 

Yeah but with Shapiro in charge their chances of getting a B&M are even LESS than when Burke was running the show....and back then the chances were none.

 

They were supposed to get a stand up but it was cancelled for Batwing back in 2001.It was on that list that was drawn up between the park & county back in july,99 when SFI still had plenty of money to work with before they went on their spending spree that put the chain where it is now.

[QueerRudie]

They were supposed to get a stand up but it was cancelled for Batwing back in 2001.It was on that list that was drawn up between the park & county back in july,99 when SFI still had plenty of money to work with before they went on their spending spree that put the chain where it is now.

 

If memory serves me, the aformentioned standup coaster went to SFOG as Georgia Scorcher-

 

As for the park: Rundown would be a good word for it. Lack of attention also comes to mind. As does decaying.

 

I'm reminded very clearly of what other parks in the past have done: Either renovate and expand, or close your gates. SFA has some -very good- coasters in S:ROS and Wild One (I don't care how many people complain that it's not that great- I love it.) as well as ROAR (Which I thought was running fine three weeks back) in addiiton to Jinx. With some investment in the park's apperance, a new coaster and some other new flat rides, the park could be EXTREMELY successful in it's future endeavours. However, considering the recent spattering of bad attention (Myself included, read earlier on in this thread) it seems that SFInc is determined to turn this park into a Ghost Town. SFA is a tarnished jewel in the crown- and DESPERATLY needs attention to regain it's status.

 

2001 was, in my opinion, it's highest point- when the park looked and felt like how a Six Flags park should lood: well staffed, clean, brightly painted, and with plenty of attractions running. Nowadays, it's like the other side of the mirror: Crumbling, decaying and without the luster it used to have.

[KDCOASTERFAN]

They were supposed to get a stand up but it was cancelled for Batwing back in 2001.It was on that list that was drawn up between the park & county back in july,99 when SFI still had plenty of money to work with before they went on their spending spree that put the chain where it is now.

 

If memory serves me, the aformentioned standup coaster went to SFOG as Georgia Scorcher-

 

As for the park: Rundown would be a good word for it. Lack of attention also comes to mind. As does decaying.

 

I'm reminded very clearly of what other parks in the past have done: Either renovate and expand, or close your gates. SFA has some -very good- coasters in S:ROS and Wild One (I don't care how many people complain that it's not that great- I love it.) as well as ROAR (Which I thought was running fine three weeks back) in addiiton to Jinx. With some investment in the park's apperance, a new coaster and some other new flat rides, the park could be EXTREMELY successful in it's future endeavours. However, considering the recent spattering of bad attention (Myself included, read earlier on in this thread) it seems that SFInc is determined to turn this park into a Ghost Town. SFA is a tarnished jewel in the crown- and DESPERATLY needs attention to regain it's status.

 

2001 was, in my opinion, it's highest point- when the park looked and felt like how a Six Flags park should lood: well staffed, clean, brightly painted, and with plenty of attractions running. Nowadays, it's like the other side of the mirror: Crumbling, decaying and without the luster it used to have.

 

GA Scorcher was already up & running when the plans were finalized & approved by the PG county zoning board.The ride was listed as attraction #37:standup rollercoaster,hight 140ft,length 4,000ft.Batwing replaced this ride when it came up for zoning in the fall of 2000...that's how we learned that the 01 coaster would be a flying dutchman model.

 

The list wasent as follows attraction #36:unknown attraction.

 

Attraction# 35: 200 ft coaster(superman)

 

Attraction#37: stand up coaster 140 ft tall,4,000ft long(replaced by Batwing at last minute)

 

I can't remember the attraction numbers for the others but the rides were as follows: a 120ft ferris wheel,an undertimined water ride(Blizzard river) indoor dark ride(possible wild mouse) & a runaway car ride(possible mine train).Out of all of these rides that were on that list blizzard river was the last one actually built....this happened as a result of Burke turning his attention(and cap ex budget) towards SFMM,SFGRADV & SFGRAM year after year while adding nothing major other than water slides to parks like SFKK & SFA & Shapiro seems to want that tradition to continue.

[QueerRudie]

OOps... I stand corrected. So much for an aging memory-

[KDCOASTERFAN]

OOps... I stand corrected. So much for an aging memory-

 

I truely believe that what happened was that Burke & CO. ran up the debt so high in the first two seasons(99 through 01) that they were looking for a way to reduce the debtload with the rediculous notion that if they only focused on the larger parks (SFMM,SFGRADV,SFGRAM) they'd make enough to get out of debt,however they seemed to have over looked the fact that they left their other parks to rot in the process & attendance dropped as a result & with that drop came a drop in profitsthus putting them further into debt with each passing year.

 

Once premier aqquired SF from time warner in 98 they were adding an additional 5 to 7 parks to their original 13 park lineup...the budget needed to finance the expenditures & operations for that many properties simply wasn't there & buying up the European parks didn't make things any easier.I sometimes worry about CF making a mistake buying the 5 paramount parks & bringing their count up to 12 properties in the process & what it may mean for KD's future but I'm beginning to wonder if KD's surge in attendance recently has been sparked by the folks up here being fed up with SFA's performance lately.

[Capitalize]

^Yeah I agree with you 100% with the locals not caring about slow operations. I go to SFA atleast 2 times a week and I always have fun, whether I ride all the coasters or just hangout with friends. I also think the "ghetto" statements are kind of racist since alot of black people (including myself) live around and visit SFA. I think people just shouldn't call a mainly black area park ghetto because that can start up some really crazy comment wars.

 

As someone who patronized the park for 9 full seasons as a passholder(and two as a paying customer in the years prior) I must say that no matter how many times I've ridden any given ride I simply do not appreciate the policies put in place regarding flashpass & the lockers.

 

Had KD done the same things in terms of operations I'd complain just as much & it would impact my decision on wether or not to visit the park so it's not entirely all a bout the lack of new additions at SFA for me.

 

Speaking of additions: with two face supposedly on the chopping block I wonder if a whole SWT makeover is in the works? They could also remove TOD while they're at it.

 

What were your thoughts when KD had a fast pass system in place on Volcano for a season a few years back? I personally didn't mind because I could get a ticket in the morning, come back and skip a 2 hour wait for Volcano...

 

For the record in all my years visiting the park and a season working at the park I have never seen the fast pass system used as you described, but you seem to have had the misfortune of visiting on much busier days then I based on your descriptions.

[Capitalize]

They were supposed to get a stand up but it was cancelled for Batwing back in 2001.It was on that list that was drawn up between the park & county back in july,99 when SFI still had plenty of money to work with before they went on their spending spree that put the chain where it is now.

 

If memory serves me, the aformentioned standup coaster went to SFOG as Georgia Scorcher-

 

As for the park: Rundown would be a good word for it. Lack of attention also comes to mind. As does decaying.

 

I'm reminded very clearly of what other parks in the past have done: Either renovate and expand, or close your gates. SFA has some -very good- coasters in S:ROS and Wild One (I don't care how many people complain that it's not that great- I love it.) as well as ROAR (Which I thought was running fine three weeks back) in addiiton to Jinx. With some investment in the park's apperance, a new coaster and some other new flat rides, the park could be EXTREMELY successful in it's future endeavours. However, considering the recent spattering of bad attention (Myself included, read earlier on in this thread) it seems that SFInc is determined to turn this park into a Ghost Town. SFA is a tarnished jewel in the crown- and DESPERATLY needs attention to regain it's status.

 

2001 was, in my opinion, it's highest point- when the park looked and felt like how a Six Flags park should lood: well staffed, clean, brightly painted, and with plenty of attractions running. Nowadays, it's like the other side of the mirror: Crumbling, decaying and without the luster it used to have.

I think its funny because I strongly disagree... The past couple seasons the park's appearance has improved significantly to me. It used to be incredibly dirty with trash everywhere and overflowing trash cans... Understaffing has always been a problem with that park.

[KDCOASTERFAN]

^Yeah I agree with you 100% with the locals not caring about slow operations. I go to SFA atleast 2 times a week and I always have fun, whether I ride all the coasters or just hangout with friends. I also think the "ghetto" statements are kind of racist since alot of black people (including myself) live around and visit SFA. I think people just shouldn't call a mainly black area park ghetto because that can start up some really crazy comment wars.

 

As someone who patronized the park for 9 full seasons as a passholder(and two as a paying customer in the years prior) I must say that no matter how many times I've ridden any given ride I simply do not appreciate the policies put in place regarding flashpass & the lockers.

 

Had KD done the same things in terms of operations I'd complain just as much & it would impact my decision on wether or not to visit the park so it's not entirely all a bout the lack of new additions at SFA for me.

 

Speaking of additions: with two face supposedly on the chopping block I wonder if a whole SWT makeover is in the works? They could also remove TOD while they're at it.

 

What were your thoughts when KD had a fast pass system in place on Volcano for a season a few years back? I personally didn't mind because I could get a ticket in the morning, come back and skip a 2 hour wait for Volcano...

 

For the record in all my years visiting the park and a season working at the park I have never seen the fast pass system used as you described, but you seem to have had the misfortune of visiting on much busier days then I based on your descriptions.

 

I hated it,as did so many park patrons that KD took it out mainly due to the fights that were breaking out over it in the ride queues.

 

The new policy on SFA began in mid 2007 with the ops announcing every time the blue train on supes came in that "this train is only for flashpass riders,we will not be loading this train from the regular line" & it continues to this day from what I hear.

[coasterfreak101]

^All last year and this year (from what I've seen) the policy has been to load the blue train with FlashPass people and then open the air gates to fill the rows that don't have people in them already. At least it's better than designating an entire train for FlashPass-ers - expecially at a ride where operations couldn't be worse - but there's still plenty of guests that get pretty angry.

[SFAfan#1]

They used to have like one row designated for flashpass (i think) If they did that, then that would be better than it is now.

[KDCOASTERFAN]

^All last year and this year (from what I've seen) the policy has been to load the blue train with FlashPass people and then open the air gates to fill the rows that don't have people in them already. At least it's better than designating an entire train for FlashPass-ers - expecially at a ride where operations couldn't be worse - but there's still plenty of guests that get pretty angry.

 

That's not the way they were running it last year,if seats on the blue train weren't filled they went out empty,the operator would announce each time that the blue train came in that they would NOT allow anyone from the regular line to board the train.It ticks me off that they don't seem to want to run the rides as they should be by loading the one seat that's clearly reserved for flashpass so the rest of the guests in line can ride in the remaining seats.

[airtime]

Yeah... I seem to remember they were making a special exception when you were in the line. The way Coasterfreak is talking about is the way it is working this year and last.

[coasterfreak101]

Maybe different operators did/didn't follow policy on loading the blue train. I'm sure that the operators who didn't want to turn that "Unlock Air Gates" knob just left the seats empty, and the ones who actually wanted to be there and please customers went ahead and loaded the whole train.

 

That's the way that entire park works. Your experience depends on who's operating the ride at the time you're there. Sometimes Joker is the best ride in the park with some amazing ops, sometimes Superman has a could've-been-a-ten-minute-line-at-Hershey line, sometimes Batwing runs both sides of the station, and sometimes Batwing's operator is smoking at the control panel. It all depends on who you've got at that given time.

[Speeddeamon128]

Hey what ever happened to Ultra Twister. Last year when I was there the pieces were just lying behind Batwing.

[coasterfreak101]

They're still there. I'm assuming that they've cancelled the plans to build the coaster considering the cost of a construction crane. SFI doesn't have that kind of money...at least not for SFA.

[vacoaster]

I work at SFGAM... and the way most of our coasters work is that there is a flash pas integration point. So flash pass uses have their own queue and enter the station on the load side where everyone else enters the station. SFA just needs to invest money to just add another pathway. This seems the most fair way to do this. The only individuals who should come up the exit are guest with disabilities or exit passes (if SFA offers those).

 

In reference to ultra twister... I heard it was going to be too costly to reassemble and its now just scrap metal. I don't think thats a good excuse it still would be cheaper to put it up IMO than it would to purchase a brand new coaster. I guess the only question would be over time... would the upkeep of the ride make too costly.

[airtime]

I thought about this, the more I think about , the more I don't think it would work. The queues at SFA just aren't designed for Flash Passers, especially the old rides like Wild One, Roar, Mind Eraser. For JJ and Superman, if you used the overflow switchbacks to hold non-passholders and control how many people are in the station that might be one way, but that would require an additional staff member. Something SFA always seems to have problems with.

[vacoaster]

It wont take much to pour a new concrete path and modify the rails. It just works very well here at SFGAM. They just modified the queue for some rides by lessening the width of the queue by adding a rail down the middle and created an express point up to an integration point. Other rides like raging bull just created a path from the exit path that connected to the queue before the station and had flash pass carriers go down the exit path only to diverge off to an integration point in the queue. Superman: Ultimate Flight does this as well.

[Speeddeamon128]

They're still there. I'm assuming that they've cancelled the plans to build the coaster considering the cost of a construction crane. SFI doesn't have that kind of money...at least not for SFA.

Thanks. That would be cool if they ever get the money to rebuild it.

[KDCOASTERFAN]

They're still there. I'm assuming that they've cancelled the plans to build the coaster considering the cost of a construction crane. SFI doesn't have that kind of money...at least not for SFA.

 

Wasn't ultra twister damaged during shipping from SFAW to SFA? That's the excuse I've always heard on the net whenever the subject of why the coaster was never installed comes up.

 

Snyder has good reason to keep the park in such an underperforming state & not to sell to another company.He knows that if another company,say Parc management were to come in there & actually fix the place up it would pose a threat to his beloved football stadium right up the road.That is also the reason why he became so fixated(to the point of a hostile takeover) to gain control of SFI in late 2005.