Tmcdllr

Well if nothing else the front car that derailed held and did not crash to the ground.

Oh yeah. Their tree maintenance seems to be lacking.

1. Just because a tree branch fell on Ninja why do you think it would be the end of the ride? This could happen to any coaster that has trees around it and if it did does that then mean it's the end of that ride? Why would people say this? 2. So is the park now closed or just the back half? 3. ^Earthquake yesterday... hmm... could have something to do with it.

I'm going to respond to this. You saw this happening.... how? It appears a tree branch fell on the track which caused this... NOT it falling apart because of loose rattling bolts like you say. What you posted almost sounds like something the typical GP would say. Come on... seriously? The trains have been running the way they were designed to. The ride is "seasoned" so it's going to sound like that. Don't you think if it was going to derail as you claim it would have already? And seriously this could happen to any coaster that has a tree branch fall on it. You did not see this coming, a tree branch (apparently) caused this, it's a random event. Okay, I see your point. I posted this before it was confirmed that a tree fell on the track, so I guess it's just a coincidence that the one ride in the park that felt rattly and loose derailed, regardless of the cause. There are coasters all over the world that rattle and feel loose... do they derail?

I'm going to respond to this. You saw this happening.... how? It appears a tree branch fell on the track which caused this... NOT it falling apart because of loose rattling bolts like you say. What you posted almost sounds like something the typical GP would say. Come on... seriously? The trains have been running the way they were designed to. The ride is "seasoned" so it's going to sound like that. Don't you think if it was going to derail as you claim it would have already? And seriously this could happen to any coaster that has a tree branch fall on it. You did not see this coming, a tree branch (apparently) caused this, it's a random event.

Holy crap a chassis came off.

^Just turn off the trims before the loop and after the tunnel, and new trains.

And THAT I think is mainly due to the fact that the 'environment' a roller coaster operates in is more or less completely controlled. The course is fixed and not random and the trains are locked onto the track, so they cannot careen out of control and kill somebody, you are securely restrained inside the train safely, there are sophisticated and redundant control and safety systems to prevent collisions and accidents, and coasters cannot run 'drunk'. Cars, planes, that kind of thing are very random. A plane could suddenly fall out of the sky and demolish a mall full of people, a drunk driver could plow down a crowd on the side of the street- very random events. But those things cannot happen with the very controlled roller coaster and it's superior design for safety and the very sophisticated systems that control it. I think THAT is the difference and the sole reason why they are so much safer and getting safer than that still, if that's even possible. And it almost makes you wonder, due to that fact, why isn't there more being done to make these other things safer than they are?

That is true, something like a MILLION times safer than driving in your car to get to the park. That fact alone should be enough.

When we go on vacation every year in August we go to the park tue-wed-thur and so far every time we have done this the crowds don't seem that bad.

Post some pics!

^I agree, I think a lot of it is misunderstanding. For the most part, these intense rides are actually very safe if used properly and a lot of fun, trying to get the GP to understand and not be so paranoid about these things would be a monumental task. I wish they would though, I think things would be a lot different.

And.... that's never gonna happen. And how we, Americans think of rides is we are wusses and think we can't handle rides that are 'too intense" yet the same ride in Switzerland is handled just fine by the people there, who don't seem to be wusses...

Wow. Does America really need to bubble wrap their rides so much that a ride that has been engineered and proven safe by a massive, experienced ride manufacturer in a developed part of the world needs to be neutered? Somebody needs to contact SFMM and ask if this is true, and if it IS true, somebody really needs to get angry at ASTM. This makes me angry. How would you select which nations are "developed" enough to produce reputable rides? How would you decide which manufacturers are "experienced" enough to be free of regulation? Do you need to be reminded that Intamin is responsible for the majority of the most highly publicized ride accidents in the United States over the past few decades? That doesn't even begin to touch on the rampant economic and political consequences of deregulating an international trade. Use your brain and think critically, it makes all the difference in the world in making people not sound like idiots. No need to get angry, it's a discussion forum people have opinions that will differ from yours. I think Intamin's safety record is irrelevant in this case considering none of the accidents with their products were due to a ride being too intense for the GP. My anger isn't because of his opinion; I agree to an extent that America over-neuters their rides and that this is largely a completely unnecessary precaution. I'm angry that the argument seems to ignore structural issues in the way America as a nation functions that makes arguments like these pointless. Neither Six Flags nor the ATSM is responsible for these large-scale structural trends that drive the decisions they make; they have made their decisions as rational actors would given the environment in which they are acting. My bringing up Intamin's safety record was not to imply that their rides are statistically unsafe nor that GL is statistically unsafe- it was to show that Six Flags has a history of bad press and lawsuits as a result of ride accidents. To respond to GigaG's point that cars are much less safe, while that is true, the average car crash will not affect a large international corporation's bottom-line. Car crashes don't get the press. Even when GM finally announces what seems to be essentially a recall of their entire product line, it produces much less sensational coverage than the coaster whose brakes fail. However it may have arisen, Americans have an inherent understanding of amusement rides that links their appeal with danger. The end result of the various structural issues relevant to this situation is that Six Flags has every incentive in the world to limit risk, especially given that the number of people who would complain about GL's ride experience compared to Insane's is probably just as statistically insignificant as an accident actually happening on the ride. A final anecdote, as I'm clearly rambling at this point. Look at the Mission Space debacle and how the sheer number of people passing through the ride's doors caused a massive acceleration in the rate of intensity-related accidents. While it seems clear that these people had pre-existing conditions that were accentuated by the ride, the result was a PR disaster and a perfect example of how a safe ride can be widely regarded as unsafe, to the point where it is probably all that most of the GP know about it coming into Epcot. Obviously I don't have the numbers to back it up, but I'm guessing that Disney lost money on their investment for that ride in the long-run. Ending my rant, my anger isn't about the difference in opinion. It's in the endless ranting that takes up pages on these forums that ignores the larger issues that make them pointless and unproductive. We can't change anything about how GL is run, how Six Flags operates their rides, or how the government regulates new attractions by debating points that, when one takes a pragmatic view at the societal structures in place, cannot possibly be acted on. Structural issues???? With what? And this is a forum, endless pages of nonsensical rambling on the same things over and over is just... gonna happen. Nobody says you have to let it bother you, just ignore it. When I see a subject that has been complained about to death come up, again, I just happily skim through it looking for anything interesting and then just move on. Yeah it's stupid and frustrating at times seeing the same things over and over but it's the internet, everyone has an opinion and things like that happen, no big deal, nothing to get angry about. Something to really get angry about is the ridiculous price of gas in this state, an absolute rip off and why is nothing being done about it? THAT is something to get angry about.

Wow. Does America really need to bubble wrap their rides so much that a ride that has been engineered and proven safe by a massive, experienced ride manufacturer in a developed part of the world needs to be neutered? Somebody needs to contact SFMM and ask if this is true, and if it IS true, somebody really needs to get angry at ASTM. This makes me angry. How would you select which nations are "developed" enough to produce reputable rides? How would you decide which manufacturers are "experienced" enough to be free of regulation? Do you need to be reminded that Intamin is responsible for the majority of the most highly publicized ride accidents in the United States over the past few decades? That doesn't even begin to touch on the rampant economic and political consequences of deregulating an international trade. Use your brain and think critically, it makes all the difference in the world in making people not sound like idiots. I'm just saying that I don't get why the US can't have a safe ride that runs in Europe perfectly fine. As for the accidents, I imagine that riding that Zacspin or Mega-Lite or whatever is still much safer than however you got to the park. Because, again, we are wusses. ASTM shouldn't base things off "wussiness", but the very fact that Intamin's rides - or any rides that are made by a reputable manufacturer- are perfectly safe. Parks should be able to say "This ride looks good for us, is made by a reputable company, and has been running safely in Europe, so we will build it." without running into a wall saying "You have to make this ride safe for test dummies made of butter." That's right and I agree and wish it was that way but it never will be and that is just sad. Intamin should be able to put a Zac Spin in Europe and run it like it was designed too, intensely with lots of flipping and they should also be able to put the same ride here and run it the same way.... but American wussies won't ever let that happen.

Wow. Does America really need to bubble wrap their rides so much that a ride that has been engineered and proven safe by a massive, experienced ride manufacturer in a developed part of the world needs to be neutered? Somebody needs to contact SFMM and ask if this is true, and if it IS true, somebody really needs to get angry at ASTM. This makes me angry. How would you select which nations are "developed" enough to produce reputable rides? How would you decide which manufacturers are "experienced" enough to be free of regulation? Do you need to be reminded that Intamin is responsible for the majority of the most highly publicized ride accidents in the United States over the past few decades? That doesn't even begin to touch on the rampant economic and political consequences of deregulating an international trade. Use your brain and think critically, it makes all the difference in the world in making people not sound like idiots. I'm just saying that I don't get why the US can't have a safe ride that runs in Europe perfectly fine. As for the accidents, I imagine that riding that Zacspin or Mega-Lite or whatever is still much safer than however you got to the park. Because, again, we are wusses.

I know there's always been a locking mechanism to keep the cars positioned correctly as they load and unload, but I don't know if there's always been one that rights the car as it enters the station. I'm not sure if they improved it or what, but I've sat and watched people come in for quite a while and not seen any stuck upside down. Even on my craziest most unbalanced rides I've never come in upside down. (I first rode GL in 2013, when I visited in 2012 there was no FP for it and the line was 120 mins so I skipped it.) That's what I'm talking about. As the car comes off the final brakes, before it enters the station there is a device (you can see from one side of the station) that tries to spin the car until it is right side up. After that point it is locked in that position as it goes through the station. But sometimes, depending on what position the car comes in at, the device cannot right the car.

That mechanism has always been there. It ensures the cars are positioned correctly but sometimes it just can't flip the cars so a staff member is needed, unless they recently improved this device it's still gonna happen.

There ya go.

It doesn't have to happen, that's the point. It's the possibility that it could happen that has theme parks doing things like this. If this society wasn't so hell bent on trying to sue everybody for anything I guarantee you we would have awesome rides here that did not have crap like this or OTSRs that were not needed (Revolution) like they do in other countries that have people that do not try to sue everybody because rides would be more intense and run more like they were truly designed to (not heavily trimmed either). People in this country ARE wusses, yet another reason we have so many 'safety' restrictions here. And even so, if MM did run GL like it was designed to run with more flips the fact that, as Tim said in so many words, they would have to staff just for that means they would have to also budget for that. Not willing to budget for staff to run a multi million dollar ride the way it was designed to --- well......

Tim Burkhart said at WCB they purposely toned it down so it wasn't too intense for the average person and also to meet their operational needs (they had to keep a mechanic on site to rotate the cars upward). Basically boils down to the fact that American's are lawsuit happy wusses who the park realized would not be able to handle it. Which is funny, because their neutering the ride made it terrible anyways! That is literally the most stupid thing ever. It's not like Americans are made of butter or something! I do think manually turning the cars like Grona Lund allegedly does is a bit dangerous. Someone will end up being kicked if they do this improperly. think there needs to be handles for this purpose on the outer edge of the car. On another note, restoring GL would go perfectly with the YOLO audience. I could handle another YOLO ad campaign if it meant making this ride better. Oh but we are, we are made of squishy, lawsuit happy butter. We sue for everything and anything ..... because we can. It's a shame but it's true. The fact the park neutered this ride to 'tone it down' just proves that even more. I agree though, it's really stupid to buy and install a ride that was designed and meant to be intense only to immediately take that element away from it. There might be more to this but it still sucks they did that.... shame on you MM.

Airplane? I love that movie.

I call shenanigans.

Yes but are they also horribly boring?

Awesome post!