KDCOASTERFAN

I have never ridden the Hurler at Carowinds, but the one at KD was not even close to enjoyable. No air time, bone jarring, jack-hammering...just no fun at all. People complain about Mean Streak for being rough, but that is glass smooth compared to this thing! I think that most older wooden coasters seem to ride a bit smoother in the front - but that is just my opinion and others may beg to differ. Couple that with the fact that I am 36 and not 16 anymore...my body can't take that kind of abuse! The Rebel Yell wasn't much better, but gave a fun, decent ride in the front. The back however, was a different story - jack-hammer city! I figured being that the racing coaster was so much better in the front (just like Mean Streak) that I would go right for the front of Hurler...same result as the back of Rebel Yell - OW, OWW & OWWWWW!!!! Not to get too far off topic - I am still glad that KD is getting some more flats! I have to call shenanigans on the "no air-time" claim. First two bunny hills after the first high bank turn have great ejector air, thats the only reason I ride Hurler every time I visit the park. Hurler at KD in the front seat is a fine ride. The only terribly rough part is the first turn, after that you get some decent airtime and a reasonably smooth ride. Rebel Yell on the other hand sucks out loud, which is really sad because backwards was incredibly fun and smooth. I am incredibly happy to hear about KD hopefully receiving a ferris wheel. First thing I heard GL was closing I thought "please let KD get Dominator and the ferris wheel, they would be perfect for the park". El Dorado will be a nice fit also. Now if only SFA would finally add anything other then a water slide my home parks would be good to go... I agree about hurler & really think that,if CF trimmed it or added an OBT to bleed off some of that excessive speed then maybe,just maybe it could be a salvageable ride.You just get thrown so violently into the side of the car coming out of that turn that it makes the rest of the ride unenjoyable. As for RY,I noticed that on both sides the jackhammering was at it's worst when going down the big drop that leads up to the turn around but other than that the ride was fine for the most part. As for SFA,I wouldn't count on them doing anything positive to improve the place,there's a reason why I stopped going there after 10 years as a pass holder,and it's not just the lack of new attractions.

I went yesterday & was just blown away by how huge that ride is...it's an awesome sight to behold as you enter the parking lot.It rides very smoothly as well(but then again it's a B&M after all). I didn't get home until well after 1 am this morning mainly due to being in line for one last night ride on Dominator that took us well past park closing to complete.

Well with that area now empty after HSXLC's demise they need something back there & Americana will fill the void quite well.

That's ok with me as I'll be at KD tomorrow. Here's a question for you although it's more of a mechanical/engineering one related to trains rather than structural/track design.How in the heck does the ratcheting restraint system(especially on OTSR's function & what exact components are used in what ways to accomplish that?

This did not have to happen. Six Flags sold the park when it drew 2.1 million guests. Cedar Fair dropped that to 700,000. Here in Cleveland we will not forget how this was handled. Cedar Point's attendance is down. Many of us are going to Kennywood. They closed a park that families went to for generations, and lied about it. This may seem like just another park closing to some people. But here in Cleveland this is going to resonate for a long time. Cedar Fair messed this up big, it will take years for them to get their good name back, if ever. They pissed off their local market. SFI sold the park at a time when they were fixated on spoiling SFMM,SFGRAM & SFGRADV rotten(& ruining the chain in the process) mainly because they'd neglected to fix up,or at least keep up with the park at the time which in turn led to the drop in attendance....had Shapiro been in charge who knows what may have happened? The park might still be SFWOA & open today or it may have been sold to CF anyway but whoever the new owner would have been they wouldn't have inherited a park that was so damaged that it wasn't worth fixing.

KD had the polyp model with 4 cars on each major arm (Octopus). There is a picture on KD's web site from the 70's showing the ride (see Below). http://www.kingsdominion.com/images/news/PKD%201970s%2071_mc4.jpg The model at GL is a spider with 2 cars per arm and a different ride cycle. As others have asserted, I feel Cedar Fair thinks highly of KD and is willing to invest in the park even in an "off" season. I think that KD is firmly in the top 5 of CF's parks along side of Cedar Point, Knotts, CanW, and KI. We have received 3 major water attractions in 2007; Dominator in 2008; and the possibility of 3 flats in 2009. I realize that some are not happy with this possible selection of flats for 2009 but, how much happier would you be if CF announced KD would get nothing but general improvements for 2009? I'm familiar with KD's original spider,unlike SFA's which has all arms lowered at the same time for load/unload KD's had to be cycled one car at a time....I remember hating being stopped up in the air on that thing when I first rode it as a kid. I think you're right about the CF heirarchy here. KD was one of the top three grossing parks in both the KECO & Paramount chain & it looks like CF is going to continue with that tradition.I'm glad that they're getting flats for 09 especially if it means getting something nice for 2010.

Both versions suck equally & should be torn down to make way for something that's more enjoying/less painful.

Not only was BP removed but midnight express as well thanks to Shapiro.ME was a popular FF attraction with lines stretching all the way outside of cyclone's queue & they went & discontinued it. A couple years back I remember them having that path that runs from behind the stunt show arena over to WO's exit path open to guest traffic for FF in the evening & they had the mansion somewhat lit up as well.

I guess the attendance boost was only temporary,I sure hope the park isn't crowded on my trip next weekend. As for Shockwave,I don't think the rumored 2010 hyper would go anywhere near it & instead would probably run behind waterworks on the other side of Rebel yell....of course who's to say the hyper's confirmed? We still have to get through the rest of 08 & most of 09 before we'll see any definitive proof.

The other two rides are rumored to be El Dorado,a Huss Rainbow/Falling start type ride & the spider,which appears to be the same model that KD had back in the 70's/early 80's & not one of those polyp models like octopus at SFA.

Great TR,hopefully the park won't be busy when I visit on the 26th & I never expected Dominator to be that well light up at night.

I agree & out of the 3 rides they're rumored to get Americana is the one I'm looking forward to most mainly because it'll give the skyline a nice change & just imagine the views you can get from up there. It almost makes up for the loss of the sky ride years ago.

From what I've heard the spider parts are already on site at KD,then again since KD once had a spider it may be those parts that someone spotted & not the GL ride parts. I'll be going on the 26th so I'll look around that area while on board Grizzly & see what I can find out. I think that it's good to see KD adding more flats after getting a floorless this season,it just shows that CF is interested in the park & hopefully they'll see fit to add that rumored hyper for 2010 especially if the park continues to see the record attendance levels they've had so far this season.

I don't know about any of you guys but next to Dominator,Americana is another ride from GL that I'd love to see at the park & it will add a nice change to the skyline that's for sure. Don't forget that already there are rumors going around about something big coming for 2010(hyper perhaps?) so the park's 09 offerings don't sound bad to me in the least.

That's ohh so true. Remember,when Vekoma first started out making coasters they were using Arrow's track design/fabrication techniques & even buying trains from Arrow prior to designing their own back when they were only making boomerangs hence the reason why their early coasters basically rode just as bad as many Arrows. Now they seem to be getting the picture that individually mounted bogies with spring loaded guide wheels are necessary to keep the ride smooth & they're also redesigning their track geometry to allow for better transitions resulting in smoother rides.Just give them a few years time & they'll be joining the ranks of B&M & Intamin soon enough.

Wasn't ultra twister damaged during shipping from SFAW to SFA? That's the excuse I've always heard on the net whenever the subject of why the coaster was never installed comes up. Snyder has good reason to keep the park in such an underperforming state & not to sell to another company.He knows that if another company,say Parc management were to come in there & actually fix the place up it would pose a threat to his beloved football stadium right up the road.That is also the reason why he became so fixated(to the point of a hostile takeover) to gain control of SFI in late 2005.

Rose definitely did an excellent job of producing & hosting the podcast so I hope she keeps it up.Just in case she's not reading this please be sure to pass my vote of confidence along to her & that I look forward to the next podcast.

That's not the way they were running it last year,if seats on the blue train weren't filled they went out empty,the operator would announce each time that the blue train came in that they would NOT allow anyone from the regular line to board the train.It ticks me off that they don't seem to want to run the rides as they should be by loading the one seat that's clearly reserved for flashpass so the rest of the guests in line can ride in the remaining seats.

Finally my local Giant food got in a fresh shipment of gift cards today so I managed to snag one for my upcoming trip on the 26th...Dominator here I come!! KD's performance definitely sends the message to CF's top brass that this IS a park worthy of future investments & is no GL.Rumors are already going around on some sites about a possible big addition to the park for 2010,I'm thinking B&M hyper here.

No, standard B&M hyper trains have nine rows. Plus, the pictures confirm Behemoth-style seating. Sorry but I don't see any pics of the trains anywhere in the links on page one.

As someone who patronized the park for 9 full seasons as a passholder(and two as a paying customer in the years prior) I must say that no matter how many times I've ridden any given ride I simply do not appreciate the policies put in place regarding flashpass & the lockers. Had KD done the same things in terms of operations I'd complain just as much & it would impact my decision on wether or not to visit the park so it's not entirely all a bout the lack of new additions at SFA for me. Speaking of additions: with two face supposedly on the chopping block I wonder if a whole SWT makeover is in the works? They could also remove TOD while they're at it. What were your thoughts when KD had a fast pass system in place on Volcano for a season a few years back? I personally didn't mind because I could get a ticket in the morning, come back and skip a 2 hour wait for Volcano... For the record in all my years visiting the park and a season working at the park I have never seen the fast pass system used as you described, but you seem to have had the misfortune of visiting on much busier days then I based on your descriptions. I hated it,as did so many park patrons that KD took it out mainly due to the fights that were breaking out over it in the ride queues. The new policy on SFA began in mid 2007 with the ops announcing every time the blue train on supes came in that "this train is only for flashpass riders,we will not be loading this train from the regular line" & it continues to this day from what I hear.

I truely believe that what happened was that Burke & CO. ran up the debt so high in the first two seasons(99 through 01) that they were looking for a way to reduce the debtload with the rediculous notion that if they only focused on the larger parks (SFMM,SFGRADV,SFGRAM) they'd make enough to get out of debt,however they seemed to have over looked the fact that they left their other parks to rot in the process & attendance dropped as a result & with that drop came a drop in profitsthus putting them further into debt with each passing year. Once premier aqquired SF from time warner in 98 they were adding an additional 5 to 7 parks to their original 13 park lineup...the budget needed to finance the expenditures & operations for that many properties simply wasn't there & buying up the European parks didn't make things any easier.I sometimes worry about CF making a mistake buying the 5 paramount parks & bringing their count up to 12 properties in the process & what it may mean for KD's future but I'm beginning to wonder if KD's surge in attendance recently has been sparked by the folks up here being fed up with SFA's performance lately.

If memory serves me, the aformentioned standup coaster went to SFOG as Georgia Scorcher- As for the park: Rundown would be a good word for it. Lack of attention also comes to mind. As does decaying. I'm reminded very clearly of what other parks in the past have done: Either renovate and expand, or close your gates. SFA has some -very good- coasters in S:ROS and Wild One (I don't care how many people complain that it's not that great- I love it.) as well as ROAR (Which I thought was running fine three weeks back) in addiiton to Jinx. With some investment in the park's apperance, a new coaster and some other new flat rides, the park could be EXTREMELY successful in it's future endeavours. However, considering the recent spattering of bad attention (Myself included, read earlier on in this thread) it seems that SFInc is determined to turn this park into a Ghost Town. SFA is a tarnished jewel in the crown- and DESPERATLY needs attention to regain it's status. 2001 was, in my opinion, it's highest point- when the park looked and felt like how a Six Flags park should lood: well staffed, clean, brightly painted, and with plenty of attractions running. Nowadays, it's like the other side of the mirror: Crumbling, decaying and without the luster it used to have. GA Scorcher was already up & running when the plans were finalized & approved by the PG county zoning board.The ride was listed as attraction #37:standup rollercoaster,hight 140ft,length 4,000ft.Batwing replaced this ride when it came up for zoning in the fall of 2000...that's how we learned that the 01 coaster would be a flying dutchman model. The list wasent as follows attraction #36:unknown attraction. Attraction# 35: 200 ft coaster(superman) Attraction#37: stand up coaster 140 ft tall,4,000ft long(replaced by Batwing at last minute) I can't remember the attraction numbers for the others but the rides were as follows: a 120ft ferris wheel,an undertimined water ride(Blizzard river) indoor dark ride(possible wild mouse) & a runaway car ride(possible mine train).Out of all of these rides that were on that list blizzard river was the last one actually built....this happened as a result of Burke turning his attention(and cap ex budget) towards SFMM,SFGRADV & SFGRAM year after year while adding nothing major other than water slides to parks like SFKK & SFA & Shapiro seems to want that tradition to continue.

The standard B&M hyper trains have the same capacity:eight cars X four passengers par gar =32 last time I looked.The only difference between Behemoth's trains & the regular trains is that the middle seats of each row or forward of the outer seats in the Deja vu style arrangement.

Yeah but with Shapiro in charge their chances of getting a B&M are even LESS than when Burke was running the show....and back then the chances were none. They were supposed to get a stand up but it was cancelled for Batwing back in 2001.It was on that list that was drawn up between the park & county back in july,99 when SFI still had plenty of money to work with before they went on their spending spree that put the chain where it is now.