Nemesis vs. Black Mamba

[Jon Sabo]

Ok, B-M (from B&M..lol) has now opened and quite a few reports have been floating around. Now is the time to compare which do you prefer the best Black Mamba or Nemesis?

 

Try to think about overall aspects of each ride including:

1. Ride quality

2. Theming.

3. Re-ridership ability and so on.

[V2-dude]

You should post this later after more people have been on Black Mamba.

[Wishmaster]

When it comes to ride quality or re-ridership I really can't choose between Black Mamba and Nemesis. But Nemesis' theming doesn't even come close to Black Mamba.

[coasterbilly]

^gotta take a look on when they opened man, huge difference in years there. I think Nemesis will always stand tall despite Black Mamba looking amazing

[Gnome]

Black Mamba will probably weather the same way Nemesis has through the years. If it doesn't, I blame it more on location rather than the ride itself. Cuz afterall, Nemmy is at the World Famous Alton Towers, where as BM is at Fantasia land! Heck I don't even know if thats the right name!

[Wishmaster]

^^ And when did you visit Alton Towers and Phantasialand?

 

I don't mean this in a bad way, but I think you should see both of them in real life before you say which one is best. On pictures they are very different from the real thing.

[Swimace]

I personally think that Black Mamba's theming looks better, but Nemesis looks like the better ride. I haven't ridden either of them though, so that's juast as far as looks go.

[Janster]

Nemesis and Black Mamba are two of my top five roller coasters. Both rides are fantastic. I rode Black Mamba 11 times (6 times front seat, really the seat you have to go for in these inverted coasters) and Nemesis 5 times (2 times front seat).

 

Nemesis was probably the first, small, highly themed B&M inverted. Phantasialand pushed this concept a little further by building Black Mamba. Everything is themed in Black Mamba. The food in the "Deep in Africa" section of the park are African specialities. The employees in the shops and operators of the ride are black (now that's theming, bit of an ethical issue though). The music in the q-line, the loading station and on top of the lift hill really boosts the atmosphere around the coaster. And then the landscape: the waterfall, the tunnels, the canyons, gorgeous.

 

Both rides have the same inversions - Zero-G roll, two corkscrews and a loop - but in a differnt order. I like the loop in the middle of the track in Nemeis. The train just doesn't seem to slow down and there is still speed left for the full vertical loop. Black Mamba however, features a really unique element - the Junior Immelman. I gues you can call it some sort of an inclined loop, it's no full inversion. Both track layouts are very original and the "pacing" is perfect. B&M is the Rolls Royce of Roller Coasters, both rides are smooth.

 

Black Mamba is my number one Roller Coaster. Track Layout, atmophere, theming and suspense; Black Mamba scores a tiny bit better. Nemesis is more of a classic (trendsetter) though.

[mark.w]

There's more theming on Black Mamba but in terms of forces Nemesis destroys Black Mamba.

[Janster]

I didn't feel that much of a difference in G-forces.

 

RCDB says: Nemesis - 3 G / Black Mamba - 4 G. So according to RCDB it's the other way around. I think those figures are incorrect btw, they both hit 4 / 4.5 G's.

[CGM]

When will people understand that it isn't the amount of Gs a coaster pulls that makes it feel forceful?

 

It's all to do with how long the Gs are sustained for. Dæmonen pulls 4.5 Gs but since this is only for a split-second, it's hardly noticable, however, Nemesis probably pulls much fewer Gs but since the Gs are sustained for quite a long time, it is much more noticeable.

 

Besides, the data on RCDB is wrong anyway; Nemesis' train is 8 cars long whilst RCDB lists it as 7 and Nemesis actually pulls somewhere between 3.5 and 4 Gs

[Menghini]

For me it's the Black Mamba! Let's also look at the queu line: Black Mamba beats the Nemesis definately on that one. And that part you see and experience the most!

 

Anyway: the Black Mamba is more mysterious and surprising and visually better, which puts, in my opinion, the Black Mamba above Nemesis.

[cjeagle35]

The employees in the shops and operators of the ride are black (now that's theming, bit of an ethical issue though).

 

Wow, are they really allowed to do that? How is that not some form of discrimination? I can't believe they haven't been sued for only allowing workers in that area to be black. That seems like segragation to me.

[WildMouse]

Suing the park for having black folk in an African themed part of the park.....How PC.

 

Its called 'authenticity' mate. Got to laugh at your suggestions of discrimination and segregation.

 

Take a visit to Phantasialand first, then make a judgement

 

edit:

So, Mamba vs Nemesis. It's a tough one for me as I love them both dearly. But Mamba gets my vote. It's construction signaled the first time I became OVER exited about a ride in a long time with the final result delivering everything I had imagined and then some what with its extensive layout, amazing atmosphere/themeing/landscaping, stunning station and strong G's.

If I had the chance to ride either Mamba or Nemesis tomorrow, lets just say that I would be on the first flight out to Germany.

[Cerberus]

Wow, are they really allowed to do that? How is that not some form of discrimination? I can't believe they haven't been sued for only allowing workers in that area to be black. That seems like segragation to me.

 

The park isn't in America. There's your answer

 

 

Haven't ridden Mamba, but I'm pretty sure I'd prefer it to Nemesis by theme alone.

Personally I've always thought that Nemesis' "run down" theme seemed like an excuse to make theming out of cheap, worthless junk and then let it rot without paying a penny for upkeep for twelve years.

Mamba has a more specific theme that required more research and accuracy and will require much care and attention to stay that way.

[Vallean]

When will people understand that it isn't the amount of Gs a coaster pulls that makes it feel forceful?

Acceleration (in m/s2) is defined as the variation of speed vs. time (i.e. 1st derivate of speed, 2nd derivate of position) but the accelerations rate, called jerk, indicated in m/s3 is important too (sorry, I use the metric system as for some engineering purposes it's tough to use imperial units).

Those interested can have a look at this PDF file showing accelerometer plots from a B&M roller coaster test (Superman, la Atracción de Acero, Madrid, Spain): www.4emme.it/PDF/ES_Superman.pdf

Accelerometer measurements are performed on all new roller coasters to check if the design specifications are met and especially if limits (e.g. per ASTM) are not exceeded. Sorry if it is somewhat off-topic.

[Wishmaster]

The employees in the shops and operators of the ride are black (now that's theming, bit of an ethical issue though).

 

Wow, are they really allowed to do that? How is that not some form of discrimination? I can't believe they haven't been sued for only allowing workers in that area to be black. That seems like segragation to me.

It's not that they allow only black people to work there. They actually allow only real Africans to work there, just like EPCOT only has real Germans in the German area, real French people in the French area, real Japanese people in the Japanese area,... So why is it that Disney hasn't been sued for discrimination?

[Menghini]

About only Africans working there: once when the coaster "broke down" and people were "stuck" on the lift hill there were a "white" supervisor and a "white" technician... (see my picture of this scene!) I think Phantasialand should go all the way and also hire "black" supervisors and technicians!

the white technician...

[CGM]

Acceleration (in m/s2) is defined as the variation of speed vs. time (i.e. 1st derivate of speed, 2nd derivate of position) but the accelerations rate, called jerk, indicated in m/s3 is important too (sorry, I use the metric system as for some engineering purposes it's tough to use imperial units).

 

Thankyou but I don't need the physics lesson, I understand how to calculate forces, that's irrelivant. All I'm saying is that the amount of Gs a ride pulls doesn't necissarily determine how forceful it feels, it's the time that the forces are held for that does.

 

Anyway, back on topic, I remain impartial until I have ridden both of the coasters but I think that people are being a bit harsh on Nemesis' theming.

 

People are acting as if it's some kind of landfill site that surrounds the ride and while it may not be anywhere near as good as Mamba's, it isn't bad as theming goes. It is a little confusing now the story line has been taken away but there is an incredibly sinister atmosphere surrounding the ride and it's all tied in to the area very nicely. People may think that the fences have become rusty, but in many cases, that's the original theming and the military vheicles, crashed tour bus and blood waterfalls add a touch that not many other parks would put in

[Menghini]

(...)

 

Anyway, back on topic, I remain impartial until I have ridden both of the coasters but I think that people are being a bit harsh on Nemesis' theming.

 

People are acting as if it's some kind of landfill site that surrounds the ride and while it may not be anywhere near as good as Mamba's, it isn't bad as theming goes. It is a little confusing now the story line has been taken away but there is an incredibly sinister atmosphere surrounding the ride and it's all tied in to the area very nicely. People may think that the fences have become rusty, but in many cases, that's the original theming and the military vheicles, crashed tour bus and blood waterfalls add a touch that not many other parks would put in

 

About theming: you are right about the Nemesis. It is very good, mysterious. But it can be better and then I say: look at the Black Mamba!

 

(At the Nemesis I especially like the artillery which is overgrown with alien stuff. I love the whole theming of the Forbidden Valley... But it isn't quite as good as the African part of Phantasialand).

[Vallean]

Thankyou but I don't need the physics lesson, I understand how to calculate forces, that's irrelivant.

I'm glad if you're able to perform roller coaster computations because it's not that trivial, although less complex than some would possibly imagine, I mean form an engineer's or physicist's POV.