DrachenfireOP

Yeah, the old "This is Oktoberfest" show was pretty awesome, and the reboot was, erm, total crap. I don't really like very many of the "new" Busch shows compared to some of the old ones (Star Light Orchestra, Irish Thunder, etc.), but hey, I suppose I don't have much control over that. The old Oktoberfest show was pretty awesome (large band, a really cool stage feature, lots of dancers), and the new one was, well, basically no band, barely a stage, and fewer dancers dancing to fewer songs. I think the public outcry wanted literally the same show back, not a watered down version. It would be like if people cried out to bring back the Le Mann's car ride and Busch responded by putting in a perfectly circular single car track out in the parking lot As for the Sky Ride and landscaping getting cut back? Doubt it. Sky Ride had a HUGE overhaul a few seasons back, so I'm not sure why they would spend money on a big infrastructure upgrade to a ride if they weren't planning to keep it around for a while. I think the remaining "opening rides" of the park are here to stay, since they keep doing massive overhauls on them. (One of the Rhine River Cruise boats is only a few seasons old, the Sky Ride was overhauled, Flume is currently getting overhauled, Catapult is in great shape and looked freshly painted when I was there a few weeks back). And the landscaping? That's BGW's pride and joy (and one of their strongest attracting features). I have a feeling they'll start ripping major attractions out long before the landscaping budget takes a hit. (Lets hope neither happens).

Oh man, that video brings me back! As to the Hypersonic XLC conversation, I was lucky to ride it opening year. It was by far the most powerful launch I've ever been on for sure, and the air time was INSANE. In later years, it really hurt to ride, but when it was new, it was all awesome… except the line. It's a shame the line never got shorter as it got older. Speaking of downtime, the first time I rode that ride, we actually went to go get back in line for a second ride when it broke down. Also, it didn't just break down, it broke down in the most horrifying way I've ever seen a ride break down. The train literally stopped vertically on the upward portion of the track. It looked like this It probably sat like that for 20 minutes + before it was lowered down. And, by lowered down, I mean they released it, then used the brakes in this "jerky trim" motion before it lowered back onto the launch section all the way back to the station. It had to be 90+ degrees outside, and those poor people on the ride probably didn't have any sunglasses to stare straight up into the blinding sun. To this day I can't believe that ride had a damn brake run on a vertical section, especially not with enough stopping power to hold a train in place. What a weird damn ride.

Doesn't help. Maybe I've only caught Mean Streak on bad days, but I have NEVER had an experience on that ride that didn't ruin my day. I'm a HUGE fan of coasters people traditionally call "too rough" too. I LOVE old Arrow coasters. Corkscrew? Vortex? Drachen Fire? GASM? I love them! I also like other "bad" coasters, including every stand-up I've ever been on. I've never met a woodie I didn't like either (or at least, not one I disliked… I've been on plenty of "meh" coasters). That said, if I never ride Mean Streak again, I will be fine with that. It's a different kind of "rough" to "head banger" rough, it's that "vibrate your whole body until your brains are scrambled" kind of rough. It's the kind of rough that makes me need to sit down for a bit after. It's the kind of rough that makes me nauseas, like that "heat headache with nausea" feeling. The first time I rode it, myself and my whole group were down for the count for over an hour after. The second time I rode it, I thought sitting first row might help. It didn't. The third time I rode, I thought a few beers before might help. It didn't. I've since stopped riding Mean Streak. Once per visit used to be WAY too many times, and now I don't even waste my time with that heap of garbage. If there was even ONE redeeming quality of it, I'd suck it up, but if any coaster could use an Iron Horse treatment, that's it. The only other treatment I think that would help it is a wrecking ball. Apologies to anyone who loves this ride. As a fan of unpopular coasters, I feel for you, but damn if I can't get behind this one.

While I guess we still don't know until they 100% announce it, based on what I'm hearing, "Tempesto" really is going to be the name... sadly... IDK, maybe other people like it, I just think it sounds... meh...

Holy hell that would be awesome! Still, if the reason they aren't tearing Gwazi out is financial, I'm not holding my breath for a $50 million + replacement either :/

Huh, weird choice not to take it out right away. I wonder if they're juggling options that don't involve dismantling it? When Drachen Fire closed, they went through a ton of phases, but all the GP ever knew was that it was closed. First they were going to do a train redesign, then they tried to sell it, then they went back to a train redesign when there were no buyers, then they even considered reopening it as is and were cycling trains in 2001. Then they finally just took it down. I wonder if Gwazi will share a similar fate? Or maybe they really just don't have the money to even take it out...

^ One thing I always liked about BGW is that there's usually a spot where you can time seeing all the coasters at once if you're lucky. If you have insanely good luck on the train, you can see Verbolten, LNM, Alpengeist, and Griffon trains go out by the Rhine river all at once. Apollo was the exception to this rule, so it'll be cool having something near it. Also, going up the Apollo lift will give you something fun to look at too!

^ It sounds like you got a bad year for trims. Some years are really bad, others not so bad, but I will tell you, that helix has always been a bit slow, even in the early days. I never minded, because the zero G role to the intense wingover is enough for me, but if you caught it on a year with less trims, I don't think you'd find much difference after the wingover unfortunately. That said, the two inversions after the breaks can be INSANE when it trims less.

^ Agreed. It is without a doubt the best coaster in the park. Apollo is a very close second, and I could see someones argument for Apollo being the best, because they're apples and oranges, and I guess I'm more an apples kind of guy. Griffon was without a doubt the biggest letdown of a coaster I've ever been on. I was jumping out of my skin to get on it the first time, and when I was done, it just sorta left me feeling "meh." It's not the worst coaster I've ever been on, but it definitely looks like it gives a better ride than it does. It blows my mind that people that have ridden it before are willing to wait in a long line for it. It's also a capacity nightmare. I don't know why BGW didn't go for the SheiKra style double station. I know it's a short ride, but even when the crew is hustling, I feel like I see the trains fully stacked more often than not. It makes it look even worse compared to Verbolten, which is honestly one of the fastest moving lines I've ever been in.

^ Actually I remember being BLOWN AWAY by how cool this coaster sounded in 97' and really liking it. The Arrows had that "loud shaky" sound which, now I have a lot of nostalgia for, but at the time, it was really cool to hear. I also remember how much Alpengeist spoiled the other coasters at the park for me. I waited over 2 hours to ride it the first time, and was SO UPSET that the line was so long, because the moment I got off, i couldn't wait to go again. We went over to Drachen Fire instead, and I remember how let down I was with DF after Alpengeist. In many ways, the waning popularity of DF gave it short lines, and I don't know many locals who enjoyed it anyhow, but Alpengeist was really a final nail in the coffin, showing you could have an intense ride with many inversions that didn't leave you bruised with ringing ears. Also, as to your question about the zero car, they added that after the fact because there was some concern that the empty train was not heavy enough to complete the circuit if the train stopped on the MCBR. I don't think a train ever actually vallied in testing, but I think it was determined that it would, either late in construction, or early in testing. If they weren't already so far on in the process, I'd imagine it would have made more sense to just add a 9th row to add the weight, and increase capacity at the same time. Of course, with the added weight and speed, this means the first half of the ride flies! The zero car alone weighs 1500 lbs! I also don't think Busch has ever intentionally "neutered" Alpengeist. I honestly think it's just however the brakes are calibrated during the off season. Some seasons it seems to trim more than others. Somewhere around 2006/2007 I seem to recall it going at "the old speed" and being really caught off guard by it the first few times.

Edit - double post internet fail :/

There are definitely louder coasters out there, but it used to have a very silent lift hill, unlike this:

^ Funny story about all that, which is an anecdote, but the source I got it from leads me to think it's true. When Drachen Fire was built, it had standard Arrow role-backs, but it also had a very fast lift hill, so it was LOUD. Well, all the residents in the nearby community complained that they could hear it and it was waking them up, so they designed a silent roleback system for it. So when they built Alpengeist, the park asked for a silent lift out the gate, and they got it! Apollo has the same system. Anyhow, for whatever reason, GP were reporting that they were worried "something was wrong with the ride (Alpengeist)" because it didn't make the traditional "roller coaster sound" going up the lift. So the park eventually let Alpengeist's rolebacks get loud again... Yet as far as I can tell (it's been a few years since I've been to the park), Apollo never changed it's rolebacks I'll never understand some of the decisions that were made, and I also miss the silent Alpengeist lift.

Sorry to double post, but that same user I posted a video of earlier has some really neat things in his channel! He has a video of Loch Ness back when the trains could still do a double looper Alpengeist before the netting was put up to catch loose articles And some nice Drachen Fire off-ride footage https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUTlu6prv30&list=UUa_yjubvOkgu46H6DVz8Tog

Like Chuck said, Thread Needle Fair was like a mini renaissance fair. It started after where the Abby Stone Theater is now, basically all throughout where the wildlife sanctuaries are now. It ended just before France, where on the left (walking towards France) was a bird show where they had birds doing fun tricks (including riding roller skates, and one that sang showtunes from musicals) and on the right was the station for the Monorail to the Brewery. Probably my favorite (but most dangerous) game they had there was a log role game, where you had to shimmy sidewise across a spinning log. I never saw very many people get all the way across, and even though there was padding, falling still wasn't fun. (Same reason they closed the children's play area that used to be under the log flume that had a giant moon bounce/ball pit etc.) Also, many moons ago the Catapult was indoors and in Hastings! It was later moved to Festa Italia inside the tent that is now a a food stand, before being moved to Oktoberfest where Mach Tower is now, and Mach tower finally saw it moved back to New France. Before Katapult was in Oktoberfest, the Waveswinger was there, and where the Waveswinger is now, was one of those old Octopus traveling carnival rides. Honestly, the only things there before 2005 that you really missed out on were the Wild Maus (which obviously you can still ride at Tampa) and Drachen Fire (which I'm sure PLENTY of people will tell you, you weren't actually missing out on all that much if you didn't want to take a beating, but I obviously loved that coaster!) I really miss Le Manns badly, but that didn't go away until 2006.

Wow, that video brings back some nostalgia of the sounds that thing made! Very distinct sounding ride for sure! You aren't kidding about the mechanical issues on that thing either! I'm pretty sure the only year I went on Gladiator's Gauntlet was 1992 (I think it was only in the park from 1990-1992). I may have rode in in 91' and forgot about it. Anyhow, of my one or maybe two years of rides on it, I got stuck on it twice, saw it stuck many other times where I wasn't on it, and one time we were stuck up in the air for over an hour >< That had to be 92' because the compensation the park gave us was Drachen Fire swag. I'll have to go digging to see if I can find the hat I got from the ordeal! Also, the ride is supposed to unlock at the center and and have both sections flip upside-down laterally, which is why it had OTS restraints. Thankfully Busch decided not to let it do that since they were already having so many issues with it. I also had no clue it was Vekoma!

Just out of curiosity, what did they do to trash their capacities? DarKastle isn't a ride I really enjoy, so I haven't really been on it since 2006/2007 (though I rode it a LOT in 2005/2006), and no one in my family ever wants to go on Rapids. Did they change something on those rides in the last few years? Also since Hastings got mentioned, maybe I'm just being overly nostalgic, but I really preferred Hastings to Ireland Questor really hasn't been topped by any of the motion simulator rides since. Corkscrew hill was ok, but I remember thinking that it was lacking in comparison. Europe in Air and King Arthur's Challenger were both... yeah it doesn't even need to be said. I also really enjoyed the shooting gallery there when I was younger, LOVED Thread Needle Fair (which I'm guessing is gone due to liability reasons. Some of those games were a bit dangerous!) And lets not forget the best feature BGW ever removed, the monorail that led straight to the brewery tour! And speaking of removed rides and old school Festa, I wonder whatever happened to The Sea Dragon? It was a rather thrilling flat ride that used to be where the Apollo station is now. I've never seen a ride like it anywhere else in the world. I know Gladiator's Gauntlet got sold to a park in spain somewhere, I wonder if the same happened to the Sea Dragon? Here's a video if anyone forgets what it is/never saw it and is curious

^ I agree with everyone in this thread standing up for clones. I've been on several iterations of BTR at various Six Flags parks, and never once did I get in line thinking "aw shucks, here comes another clone I've already been on." It's a great ride! I only had 3 fears with this ride at Busch, and two of them have been squashed: 1) They were going to tear out too many trees. Turns out, they actually didn't remove very much at all, and while you will see this ride from the parking lot, the base will still be hidden, and I think it actually is turning out to work pretty nicely. 2) It's a clone of a possibly medicore ride. Turns out, it's a great ride! So as long as they don't do something stupid, this should be awesome. 3) Capacity. This is the only question mark up in the air, but like Chuck said, there's no use getting up in arms about "low capacity" on a ride that hasn't even been built yet.

^^ Sadly, it does not look like the structure for a transfer track is in place, and the station footprint is no where close to large enough

I'd take that with a grain of salt. Arrow coasters are fairly self destructive, and wolf was no exception, but the above statement is a bit exaggerated. I talked to green taggers quite a bit when I was working on Wolf and never heard anything that extreme. Don't get me wrong, it's not completel wrong, all Arrow's are fairly self destructive. Due to the self destructive nature of Arrow coasters, they do get a train inspection every 4 hours to make sure everything is fine, but having worked on BGW Arrows for several years, I never once saw a train fail the inspection. Even if one did fail, it wouldn't even be a huge deal, it would just mean something was a knocked a bit out of alignment, or a non-essential screw was a bit untightened, and they'd pull the train from service and repair it quickly. The really important features all have redundancies. As anyone who has taken the coaster tour surely can attest, BGW maintenance is world class. My issue is that for years maintenance guys were talking about overhauls being discussed to LNM and Wolf to modernize them and reduce repair costs, with some of the rumors involving replacing the trim brakes with magnetic upgrades, and a possible redesign to the bogies to get rid of "the Arrow gap." But when the company sold, suddenly those talks magically vanish and so does the wolf, which again wouldn't bother me if they were upfront about the reasons, but they weren't. If the excuse they gave was to be taken at face value, LNM should have been long gone. Hell, not only does LNM have all the same issues Wolf did, it has more due to various oddities of it's design (not enough brake runs to stack trains, block brakes are completely level and too short). Yet Busch keeps it running, and maintains it to the point that it's arguably the smoothest, best Arrow still out there today. I think InBev just didn't want to come out and say "look, we don't want to keep paying the upkeep on both Arrows, nor do we really care to upgrade them to reduce upkeep, so we're just going to get rid of Wolf," so instead they just made up a "this was always the plan, don't blame us!" story and moved on.

^ I agree on all accounts. I think this is a bit of a non-traditional looking ride from BGW, but we don't know all the details. People are upset because BGW tends to NEVER do anything traditional, and this looks like "just a clone." We don't know what crazy surprise they have in store for this yet, although of course, maybe there isn't one. Even if there is no crazy surprise, and this is just a clone outright, I still won't think it a poor decision until after I've ridden it to judge for myself. I mean, for example, while I love Verbolten, I don't see any reason why it couldn't have gone elsewhere and they could have kept wolf, and between the two, I enjoy wolf more if for no other reason than the night rides. The BS story they fed the public about Wolf always being planned to retire at 25 years was a fabrication. But that said, there are plenty of people who don't mind the swap out, and I'm sure that even if I don't like the pasta coaster, there will be plenty of people who do. ^^^^^ Oh, also, it's almost impossible to tell from a wide angle shot from behind, but I think the guy with Carl is Derek Bowie. He was a manager back when I worked there, but I think I've heard that he was promoted to director of park operations about 8 or 10 years ago. He's a very nice man, and cares a lot about the park, so if you ever see him again, you should say hi!

I made a trip down to Christmas Town this past weekend, and it was a blast! Very temperate. I got a few rides in on Verbolten, which was fun. I still liked CT better when Alpengeist was open, but what can you do? What little line there was moved very fast since they had 4 trains running. I definitely think back is the way to go on this coaster, since you actually get some fun little air time here and there, and it really whips you around in the show building! Obviously the pasta coaster is now visible from the pathways, as the supports have risen above the fence. I honestly don't know why they haven't announced it yet, but I've decided to think of it less as a coaster, and more of a flat ride. Sure, it's technically a coaster, but honestly, the niche of the park it fits in for me is a flat ride. Whatever they were doing back on the DF site earlier this year is done, and there's no signs of it. It's just being used as storage for coaster trains/rapids boads, and they're also putting pieces of the flume trough there while they work on the upgrade. It was weird riding the train past the flume and seeing the supports just stick up in the air with no flume on it!

I've got a few rare ones. I have every credit from SFNO. I've stood at the crown of every BGW coaster that has a lift hill, both lifts in the case of LNM and Wolf. I have a ton of "almosts" too I'm hoping to knock out. Oh, and I've been on every Togo standup in North America which I'm only going with since they're a dying breed.

I was saying that more for the enthusiast standpoint since they have such a reputation, and I think parks do consider that when building a ride. They want something that will draw tourists, so they absolutely will avoid building something the enthusiasts hate, since they're the crowd willing to pick up and travel to another part of the country just to ride a ride, rather than base their travel on a myriad of factors. I really wouldn't mind seeing a new standup. Then again, I also wouldn't mind seeing a Strata that does more than just crest a hill, a US coaster break the inversion record, and a specialty nerd park that consists only of improved recreations of defunct coasters, but I guess I'll just need to keep dreaming!

My old answer for many years was riding on the train at BGW past the old Drachen Fire site, especially for the four years it was SBNO. I finally got over that and they went and ripped out the Wolf, my first ever coaster and one I worked on! Verbolten is a great ride, but I would have rather seen them put it elsewhere and kept the wolf too