coasterkid124

Elitch Gardens just announced a Star Flyer. Considering Premier operates that park too, that may be a possibility for Darien. I won't give my opinion on it until we get some sort of confirmation, or news about the fate of Twister.

As always, its great to see reports from you guys. I'm definitely going to try Skyrush in the front next time I visit. Usually I'm a back-left person, but this is a coaster where there just really isn't a bad seat. I don't believe that I have ever been in the front row on Skyrush though. It's only been one year since I last went to Hershey, and I feel like I am already having Skyrush withdrawal.

Frontier Lift > Iron Dragon. And who would've thought that talking about Skyride would save this thread from bickering over Mean Streak

But not in the numbers that they had used to, even before the Six Flags era. When Funtime/Premier ran the park, attendance was over a million each year. In 2000, it peaked to over 2 million when the Six Flags takeover actually began. But every year thereafter, the park great amounts of attendance, which fell to 700,000 in 2005. This is well below even the 1 million number from the 80s and 90s. I'm just using the numbers here. The park lost nearly 1.5 million visitors yearly in the early 2000s. With the size of the property and overhead that they had, how could one expect the park to keep going on like that? If the park was still a small, family oriented place, it could have kept going on like that. So how could attendance disappear like that, when the park was arguably at its best, and the locals were "not to blame"?

Overexpansion IMO is just the single greatest reason why the park was doomed. But I have heard from a few sources that attendance was actually in decline even during those years. If that is true then they are definitely to blame. Wildwater Kingdom would probably still be here if it performed a little better. The same people who are crying over the park closing are the same ones who didn't visit when the park was at its best or chose to go to Cedar Point instead. I feel bad for the locals who truly were devoted to the park, but some of the same poeple weren't going.

There's definitely a few good open spaces for additions, we just need someone to invest in them. If the park isn't planning on doing Fright Fest for the time being, there's that whole area behind RoS that was only opened up for the event. To me the RoS plaza is sort of a dead end, and they could wrap it around with the pathway along the lake to make it flow better. I don't think that the land is used for anything else during the season. The only thing back there was the haunted house building, which would probably be converted or razed. I actually just had an idea while typing this. That would be a good place to move the picnic pavilions if the need to expand Splashtown again ever came up. Lakeside seating, and it's kind of a secluded area away from the park goers. I do have to say though, going to my father's company picnic for many years, I do like the location where it's at now. It gives some unique views of RoS and the water park.

That's usually how it works. Like Robb said, some hillbillies with their pick up trucks thought they could just take it down piece by piece, with no prior engineering or construction experience. In all honestly, as much of a running gag that the Big Dipper was, it's a shame to see this the fate of this park overall. And I guess that these same locals who wanted to save the ride are to blame in a way for the dwindling attendance of the park. A similar thing happened at Crystal Beach Park in Ontario when it closed and went up for auction. Many rides were bought and relocated, most famously the Comet. The second largest coaster at the park was the "Giant Coaster". It was a large yellow wooden coaster, that was the second last side friction ride. Some random joe bought it for like 2,500, and he found out that he didn't have the resources to do anything with it, so it sat until someone set it on fire or something, and it was demolished anyways.

Of course using the Pythagorean theorem isn't accurate. If I used it for a calculation like this at my job, I would probably be fired. It's a good reference point to estimate what a 45 degree lift would be height-wise. I think myself, as well as other users here are just using it because it's simple. That Pointbuzz user spent a lot of time calculating, but he's made one huge mistake. He's using an image for his angles and calculations. That's a big no-no. Images can be taken from different perspectives and are misleading to use for measurements. None of us really know the "new" angle for the lift. The resulting height therefore varies tremendously. I think that his resulting height is likely, not based on his calculation, but based on what Cedar Fair might be going for record-wise. I really think that someone who would put that much work into calculating is trying too hard. Most of us are here just to have fun. I'm not a coaster designer. Whether or not my makeshift calculation is correct or not will not mean anything. No matter the height, the bottom line is that this will be a kick ass coaster.

Long day... Disregard my calculation, Password is correct. I used the wrong side of the triangle Either way, this is to show that 200+ is a possibility given the current structure being formed. Not a given. For all we know it might be the same height or a little taller.

Assuming that the current lift angle is 30 degrees, that gives a length of 322 feet to get to the height of 161'. If the lift angle is steepened to 45 degrees, and the length of the lift is kept the same, that will result in a height of 227-228 feet. So a hyper hybrid/wood coaster is not out of the realm. There are many factors in the design process and eventual layout of the coaster to consider, so don't take that number as the actual result height. It's just an estimate based off the current angle and the new angle.

I'm glad to see that Intamin has been busy overseas. Hopefully with the last few projects that have been working well as far as I have heard, some more American parks will build their products again. Personally, I think that Vekoma will have a market for these hypers with smaller parks. They have always been a cost friendly company. But considering that Chance cannot even get a buyer for the Hyper GTX's yet, the outlook is a little fuzzy. One thing is for sure, the park is guaranteed an awesome product with an Intamin layout.

If I had the courage to do it right now, I certainly would do the calculation myself. Maybe later. 30 degrees is a safe estimate for the lift. Most coasters use that benchmark angle. Depending on what RMC goes with as far as the layout, the higher they go, the larger pullout that would be needed too. So they won't go extremely high. Son of Beast was 218'. Personally, I can't see them going that high, but maybe they will try to beat the 200' mark.

Maverick was a Kinzel era addition. Back then, Cedar Point really didn't renovate areas when new attractions were built. Just clear the land, and plunk something down. Ever since Gatekeeper, the park has really been concerned about fixing up areas as they go. 2013- Gatekeeper/Entrance plaza 2014- Pipe Scream/Gemini Midway 2015- Rougarou/Breakers 2016- Valravn/Marina Entrance and Raptor 2017- Cedar Shores/Challenge Park Removal With Mean Streak getting transformed now, Ripcord going somewhere else, and Shoot the Rapids leaving, it wouldn't surprise me to see them redo Frontiertown to some extent. Maybe it won't be a full on rebuild, as it is already a nicer area, but I can see them doing some rehab work around MS/STR.

^^I was always a fan of the Nemesis theme. It has a dark kind of mood to it. Colossus would be a good choice as well.

They wouldn't need to go overboard with it, but I think that a little bit of teasing for new attractions would benefit them. My friends didn't even know that Ripcurl was new this year until they actually saw it. Most people who visited the park this season probably were not going for that attraction. I do like that Premier is pushing for new attractions every season. I must say that the three things that have been added over the last two years have been really popular and surprisingly fun rides. The only thing that I am hoping for this year is another addition to the dry side. The waterpark is pretty set for the time being. We probably won't know anything until after IAAPA again, as that's when Darien seems to decide on what they will purchase.

My guess is 2018 considering there hasn't really been much teasing or an announcement date so far. The park has been adding something coaster related since 2013, counting Pipe Scream of course. Especially coming off a large investment last season, they don't need Mean Streak to reopen for next year. Mean Streak is going to be their largest, and most extensive project to date, so they probably want to get a head start. We have no idea how the weather is going to be this winter, or how many other unannounced projects RMC may have to tackle. I'm really just being cautious here, and would love if the ride opened next season after all. NTAG took a long time to build because it was the company's first attempt at I-box track. There was a lot more testing that had to be done, and the crew was new at doing it. At that point, all of the track was produced in what is RMC's office building now. With their new facilities and experienced crew, they can pump out materials a lot faster.

I'm going to be very frank about the fair, and I've been predicting for years that attendance would start dropping off. This may be the second or third year in a row that I read about their attendance dropping. This year, it was at 15%. That's huge compared to the 3% drop the year before. Blaming the weather is not really credible for them. There's a lot to do indoors at the fair, and people in Buffalo don't care about the heat. People were roasting at the Taste of Buffalo when the temp was in the 90s. The real reason why people are starting to stop visiting is the rising prices, and its the same old stuff every year. I remember some people going to the fair 2-3 times, and now the same people tell me that they only went once or didn't go at all. They hit you with parking, admission, and you can't do much in there without paying, Rides prices are outrageous now, the average price of a food item is like $9, and all of the buildings just have salesmen in them. I went to the fair once this year and said that I'm not going back until they shake things up. It's the same offerings, but at higher and higher prices.

You would pay more than $70 just to visit twice. The pass is WELL worth it for me. Even though the lineup is a little stale, I can't say that over the years I have had any terrible visits. The lines can be a little annoying at times, but personally I love RoS, Predator, and Viper. Not to mention free parking, free friend tickets, free water park, some very unique flat rides, and a free reduced refill mug that all come with the pass. They really are throwing in a lot for that price.

It usually hovers around that point. I know that it fluctuates, but steadily since the 90s 1 million is a good benchmark number. Here are some sources: http://www.buffalonews.com/business/darien-lake-doubling-down-on-thrills-20150212 http://www.bizjournals.com/buffalo/stories/2008/04/14/newscolumn1.html?page=all Also, the book Amusement Parks of NY by Jim Futrell. I believe that 2014 was one of the few years that the park was slightly below that number, but remember that was the year that nothing was new; just the Nik Wallenda show. They countered the next year with Rolling Thunder and Brain Drain, and I would say that those additions pushed them back over the threshold.

^It's a possibility that Cedar Fair could be interested seeing that they have been searching Europe for unique, used rides. I bet that if the cost and rehab expenses are low, they may be interested in bringing it over. Putting it in MiA is a different story though. I personally think that it would be an excellent addition to hold them over. But given Cedar Fair's current model of investment, a larger park would probably get it first.

Unlike with a ride like Cuda Falls, the pumps on these rides are much easier to replace. Pretty much any standard pump with the same power could be used. Plus they are in an easy to reach area. With the popularity of these rides, and the money just spent to rehab them, I don't see them leaving even if the pumps go. How do you know these numbers for sure? The park doesn't even release attendance numbers, let alone financial statements. One thing that we do know, is that the park's attendance is a little over a million per year, not including concert attendees. And from press releases that I have seen from CNL, DL is one of their largest gaining properties, to the point that they have been impressed with it. Does every coaster need a second train every day of operation? Absolutely not. But there's nothing wrong with keeping a spare in case of mechanical down time, or those days in the summer season when wait times can reach 45+ minutes. Motocoaster went down for a chunk of time this year. While we don't know the reason, it very well could have been a train issue. This is a ride that has a theoretical capacity of 250 pph with two trains. Also keep in mind that the park was planning on expanding two train ops this season. Viper was scheduled to get a second train in July, according to an operator who I trust and has been working Viper for over 20 years. Apparently this fell through because the park "Spent the money on Twister instead". Which shows the mess that the joint operating and management is causing.

Any word on the cost of that project? While I'm all for trying to convert to renewable energy resources where possible, solar really just isn't all there yet when it comes to power generation. It's on the rise though, and if GADV could make it happen, that would be huge. Nobody is completely off the grid though. To put it into perspective, my former university spent $20 million a few years ago on a huge solar farm. What did it power? The heaters for a pool. That's it.

I know it's an old concept, but I'm still hoping that a Frisbee ride is still under consideration. It was proposed a while back in a guest survey. If Twister is on its way out, or Viper's queue is re-routed, that opens up possibly two large pads for it to go on. It's a ride that would be a reliable thrill ride to replace at least one of the ones that were removed over the past two seasons. Depending on model, they are relatively cheap, so a family flat could be added along with it.

Cedar Point didn't trim Mean Streak because it couldn't handle the forces. It was to make the ride as comfortable as possible and cut back on track maintenance. A lot of people don't know this, but much of the ride was actually re-profiled after the first few seasons to make the layout more gradual. This is something that happened to Colossus as well, and look what happened there. So to say that adding height to the structure is impossible, is just BS at this point. Engineering isn't a guessing game. RMC probably has fully modeled the ride, and is performing stress analysis testing on the current structure to see what the limits are. Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if they go with a steel lift hill here, much like Goliath. This way, if they want to add a good chunk of height, they can do so without having to go through every single beam on the lift structure. Whether it's I-Box or Topper, a lot of steel bracing and reinforcements will be added to the structure, so I don't think that adding height will be too much of an issue. If they could do it with other coasters that have worked well, and are high rankers, they can definitely do it here.

^Some of it seems very plausible, such as the relocation of Viper's entrance or removal of Twister. Those are things that we've been predicting for years, given the issues that they cause. But other things just left me thinking, yeah not happening. There's very little chance that the park is going to seek to remove their in-park water rides, or look to add two coasters under the current management situation. Not saying it's impossible, but highly unlikely.