Coasterguy21

^Partially correct! They do have an overall capital expenditures budget however, which was set at $170 million for 2015 (mostly due to the Hotel Breakers renovation). They expect it to be about $120 million (which is up from the 9% of revenues guidance figure they adopted before) for years leading to the future. So, essentially, every park has to work to get their share of that $120 mil. They do operate the parks completely separate though, as you said. It goes into that ROI calculation. They'll spend as long as they know it can be recuperated via admission, season pass sales, parking, other investments and hotel sales. For example, say Fury 325 gives Carowinds a really good year (which it appears it will), the money earned from Carowinds doesn't mean that they build a coaster at Knotts because of that good season.

Sorry, that is correct, Valleyfair & Canada's Wonderland's market size is the same (9 million). It's just that Toronto is a heavily visited city and that aids with the parks attendance (that and, as you said, its like the Disney World of Canada). This helps Canada's Wonderland pull in well over 3 million people a year. However, Charlotte's market size is 14 million (all quoted from Cedar Fair's Investor Relations page) and Charlotte is the the third fastest growing city in the United States (which is why so much focus is going on there probably). They pull in roughly 1.5 million to 2 million a year, which is why they would invest there if attendance starts to slip. Valleyfair sits at the 1 million mark (which isn't bad for having a shorter operating season than Carowinds). Yes a new coaster could help boost that a bit and I am anxious to see how attendance does increase following the next major addition. With that said, and the present market size of Valleyfair, it is getting to be about that time for a major addition. You don't want to saturate the park too much for the market, but, in this case, you wouldn't. I'm not so sure about 2016 but in the near future, a new coaster would not surprise me one bit. ^Yes, Cedar Fair has new regional headquarters in Charlotte.

The current TV ad running in New York DMA and the e-mail newsletter sent to pass holders both mention El Diablo as a new ride, no reference to it being a coaster. That's good news! The website still shows it as a coaster though :/ https://www.sixflags.com/greatadventure/attractions/el-diablo/overview Personally, I don't care how they advertise it. A new attraction/ride is a new attraction to me. Coaster or not! Its up to whoever wants to "count it" as part of their coaster count I guess. Parks: Continuing to blur the lines between flat ride and rollercoaster! At any rate, may have to add SFGAdv to my list of 2016 visits if a new coaster does indeed go in.

^Maybe on the last page I'm just keeping an open mind to it. I actually think its an enjoyable stand-up coaster. At the same time, I didn't mind Mantis that much either. I think the conversions, at least from Stand-Up to Floorless, fall more so into the "improving customer satisfaction" category with quicker load times moreso than driving traffic through the gate. I'm just going off that because of the "two possible conversions" mentioned in the conference call (in which there are two B&M Stand-Ups left in the chain). This could, of course, mean any coaster (could even include an RMC Mean Streak). There was a report on another site that was mentioned numerous times (but has yet to be verified) that stems from an interview that was had at Fury 325 media day with Rob Decker. He stated they were going to "coast into 2016" and "making a huge splash". During the interview (which I have not been able to find so do not mark the words here), he supposedly said that they were looking into a possible conversion of an existing attraction at the park. Once again, just passing on what was said and this hasn't been confirmed. But, just in case, I'm keeping that "open mind". Granted, he couldn't have said any of that OR what he did say doesn't exactly hint as a conversion (some enthusiasts will try to take it any way they can to speculate). As for the "coasting into 2016" line, I'm pretty sure that meant that Fury 325 (the 2015 coaster) will take them right into 2016 (waterpark).

The contradiction is strong with this one! (even though technically a coaster is a new attraction) Construction is still on-going on the parks present new coaster...El Diablo All jokes aside, El Diablo is still being built (and will still be marketed as a coaster). As for whatever else is going on "construction wise". The rumors will continue to fly.

I'm going outside of it all and not just posting coaster predictions. Here's my prediction chain wide for 2016. As more clues or signs arise, these will very well change. Just a thought out opinion is all due to the fact that not much in the way of anything is known for 2016 yet. -Cedar Point/Soak City: Record Breaking Bolliger & Mabillard Dive Machine. -Canada's Wonderland: Bolliger & Mabillard Wing Coaster. Thinking "Ziz" will round out the trifecta of Behemoth, Leviathan and Ziz. -Carowinds: Water Park Expansion (re-branding to Soak City) and Potential Conversion of Vortex (still keeping an open mind about that though I hope differently). If that conversion doesn't happen, I see something being added to the dry side too. Maybe a new flume or a flat ride of some sort. -Knott's Berry Farm/Knott's Soak City: 2016 seems like it'll be an odd-year in SoCal. I may actually think either nothing or maybe a flat ride of some sort. Maybe that waterpark expansion that has been tossed around for years. -California's Great America: Boomerang Bay waterslide additions. Not a rebranding yet. Maybe a flat. -Dorney Park & Wildwater Kingdom: Flat Ride to help fill the void left from Hangtime's departure. -Gilroy Gardens: Yeah.... -King's Dominion: I have no reasonable guess at this moment -Kings Island: A flat ride? -Michigan's Adventure: Chance Hyper GTX or the 210 foot tall Chance Hyper that was planned way back in the day. I could see the Back 40 becoming Planet Snoopy as well with rides being rethemed and some new ones as well. -Valleyfair: No clue but I don't expect it to be a lay-low and just general improvements kind of year. -World's of Fun: No clue why, but I have a feeling that this will be the next park to get a Dark Ride. I also see SlingShots being added to many of the parks. Not too expensive of additions and get a good return on ROI.

Valleyfair will get something new coaster wise soon. Its inevitable. However, comparing the amount of coasters Canada's Wonderland and Carowinds gets is an entirely different story. Canada's Wonderland is the most visited regional/seasonal amusement park in North America and is in a huge market area just outside of Toronto. Investment will continue to be heavy there. Carowinds is located near a Top 25 city and an extremely large market as well. In addition, the new regional headquarters will be there. Both markets considerably larger than the Twin Cities markets. The bigger the market and the more attendance, the better chances you have at frequent additions. This isn't to say anything won't come in the future. I believe Cedar Fair is allocating about $120 million a year for capital expenditures chain wide (if I remember the figure correctly from a previous conference call. I'll have to double check). Assuming Cedar Point gets that Dive Coaster, Carowinds gets the water park expansion and Michigan's Adventure gets that "major capital" that was teased in the papers (which could only amount to $10 million really, if it is indeed the largest in park history). Then there is STILL a lot of money left for investing into Valleyfair (depending on what CW actually gets). Valleyfair will grow well into the future and I think this year's addition is pretty swell. The future is exciting as always (and this goes for the entire chain). Don't worry, your days of thankfulness for a new coaster will be approaching soon.

If the Rougarou conversion goes well, they've already identified two other coasters that could undergo similar conversions. (Source: http://newsplusnotes.blogspot.com/2014/11/heard-on-cedar-fair-3q14-earnings.html). With that said, I would expect CGA's Stand-Up and Carowinds as well. With Mantis being converted and SkyRider disappearing at CW, I think the chain is moving away from Stand-Ups in favor of a more comfortable riding experience AND better capacity. If a coaster isn't getting much ridership, it doesn't matter if its sentimental value or not. Ouimet made that clear! Sometimes you have to let go/honor the past to build for the future (that wasn't the direct quote but it was something along those lines). I would not be surprised if Vortex eventually became a floorless coaster. Personally I would prefer Vortex at Carowinds NOT make the conversion....it's actually a rideable standup that is rather enjoyable! But, who knows what the future holds. I just wouldn't be surprised to see it go that way.

Generally, it is 210 feet and its mostly township restrictions. Even though the Coast Guard does fly nearby, the base is out of Muskegon County Airport. For the most part, the airport does not affect the city (afterall, Cedar Point was closer to Sandusky-Griffing than MiA is to MKG. MKG has scheduled air carriers though, so that is a huge difference). The park can seek exemptions so they can build above the height limit. if a SlingShot was to be built for 2015 and be over 200 feet, I'm sure we'd hear whispers about it my now.

^Very true! Wasn't saying they were going to be removed, just going with the "guests vote with their feet" quote. I always figured one of the three would end up biting the dust and now we know it's Turnpike. Maintenance and age aside....I hope Sky Ride doesn't go anywhere. I ride it frequently when there.

They won't be removed anytime soon then with an increase like that . ^That is my favorite quote of the last few pages

^Taking the Busch Gardens Williamsburg approach eh? I'll be happy with general park improvements because I see the park for what it is. Either way, like I said, I'm sure we'll see something major soon, I keep going back to that "major capital" quote. Until then, it's still just a wait and see. As for the improvements this year...guess we wait for opening. I'd be down with a drop tower for sure!

I personally love the location of the Gliders and Beer Garden presently. I'm just glad the park finally has beer (last park in the chain). I haven't been able to confirm if Trabant was taken out or not. I haven't ridden that ride in 15+ years but did used to enjoy it. I could see a new ride going in over in the Falling Star spot eventually, but Trabant is small enough to have a new food stand or store go in (with all those types of changes that have been happening at other CF parks, I'm guessing that'll eventually make its way here). Of course, the biggest focus the past few off-seasons have been the infrastructure and technology upgrades. Once those are set, I'm sure we'll see more attractions added. I'm not talking about the park literally having a major growth spurt, but additions that are good for the park. After all, we know it isn't neglected like so many seem to think. I, too, have also thought that a Planet Snoopy would be a perfect fit for the Back 40. However, would they rename Zach's Zoomer? Afterall, Zach still works at the park in the summers and his mom is still Park President. I could see them keeping that name and it still being a Planet Snoopy (kind of like an additional ride within the kiddie area). Even so, if they were up for it, it could be renamed. Big Dipper could as well and all the present rides could be re-themed (kind of like what happened with Geauga's kiddie rides when they came over to CP for Planet Snoopy). Just re-theming and renaming rides and two coasters already there to anchor. A few more rides could be added and from there its just theming aspects. If Frog Hopper could find a new location over there, it'd be even better. As for the future, I just keep thinking back to that quote of "We have some major capital on the way". I'm sure whatever it is will be one of the biggest investments for the park and I would bet it would be for the 2016 anniversary year. I could see a Chance Hyper GT-X or maybe one of their actual Hyper Coasters. Whatever it is, I'm excited. It could be a flat ride, or a ProSlide HydroMagnetic Slide.....I don't care. I'm intrigued and can't wait to try whatever it is out.

Yeah. Scorpion, for as long as I can remember, has operated with just one train. Personally, I would wait for it though, I love it! It was my first looper when I was a kid and I think it is just an awesome coaster. It was closed the last time I went back in May of 2014. I didn't mind Gwazi. I liked it a lot when it was dueling and after it got the new trains (May of 2011 visit). Didn't really complain. I decided to ride it again this past year because it was on the chopping block. It surely was a lot rougher than the last ride, but it didn't bother me too much. I could tell things were different many of the riders on the train though. It's a giant plot of land, so it'll be exciting to see how things unfold in the future.

According to the latest tweet, and being mighty thankful to the wind for blowing off the cover on the art, it looks like the World's Largest StarFlyer will be coming to I-Drive.

Why would you think that? Cause Matt O. said that Valleyfair, Carowind's, and California's Great America were the parks with the best growth potential in the chain. @grsupercity, because they're from Minnesota. @Rollercoaster Rider, it was Brian Witherow that stated that, not Matt Ouimet. Carowinds obviously has the best. I'm extremely pleased that Valleyfair and California's Great America are on the list. These were two of the three parks (the other being Worlds of Fun) that was for sale by Cedar Fair back in 2008. Glad to see that two of the three have the greatest growth potential. And Worlds of Fun, they aren't doing bad either. There's definitely potential there still as well. Back to Michigan's Adventure, while its been discussed that it has the highest profit margin in the chain and, thus, an extremely valuable asset to the company, I feel the growth potential isn't too terribly large there. Of course capital being added over the years is great, but I'm afraid that dumping a lot in over a short time period would ruin the park. But maybe there was more growth potential than imagined. Roger Jourden wanted to build a resort hotel and a campground for park visitors as well as a 200 foot tall hypercoaster back in 2000. The RV Campground became a reality across the street, but is not owned by the park or chain. Essentially I haven't done a market analysis, but the market was more healthy back in the day than it is now. Will the park grow over the years? Yes, but I don't see the need to build large things right now when the park is still reporting strong attendance. Others may not like it, particularly those in the state, but I feel the park is doing just fine. It's exactly what it is. Cedar Fair has done a lot, from adding new attractions that drew in some people to general improvements, to much needed infrastructure upgrades. Major capital, as Camille Jourden-Mark pointed out in the newspaper article, could mean just about anything. I'm hedging my bets here, but I believe the new capital for 2015 will be in the waterpark. The dry side got it for 2013 with the Lakeside Beer Garden (much needed) and Lakeside Gliders, which was a great addition. Judging by the way the rest of the chain is going, I'd expect a trap door capsule slide complex and some other speed slides to go in at WildWater Adventure. Maybe a Constrictor type tube slide as well. I do see a Disk'O being a fairly good addition (and it being stated that it is a coaster). Just not sure if it would be added standalone, or as part of an overhaul of an area. With that being said, I honestly can see an overhaul and relocation of some Kiddie Rides to form a "Planet Snoopy" or "Camp Snoopy" type area. Being in Michigan, I honestly would prefer the "Camp Snoopy" name adoption, but whatever works. I do believe a coaster is in the works within the next five years. 2008 was the last one added, and while everyone says it shouldn't count because it wasn't a new coaster, ask the gates what they think, because attendance surged following the addition of Thunderhawk and it is still riding strong. A Chance Hyper GT-X would be an awesome addition, but I, for some reason, would prefer a mixture of that with a regular hypercoaster standing over 200 feet tall. Something not too terribly expensive, but makes a presence. I guess we'll find out soon. I'm rather excited to hear about this capital. Also, if the opportunity ever presented itself, I would not be surprised to see Duck Creek purchased by the chain. It's an extremely popular RV Resort and people camp there that may not even attend Michigan's Adventure. I feel it would be a worthy investment for the chain if it ever came about.

There's a difference between people wanting the park to build a new coaster and the park needing a new coaster to be built. Eventually major capital will be added, but that is not something you want to rush (technically, the capital added over the past two years is major). Not until you can predict how much of an ROI you could get on the new attraction. Even then, a new coaster doesn't necessarily translate to something big. It could be a Gerstlauer for all we know. Michigan's Adventure is a case in point, adds a relocated coaster in 2007, still riding high on it. People claim the park needs a new coaster, but that's not the case, they just want it. Eventually they will build one, but why build one when you're still "riding the wave" so to speak.

1991. While a few woodies built during this year didn't age well (and Psyclone got torn down), I still feel Mean Streak makes the cut. If I had to say....here's the Top 3 from 1991. 1) The Ultimate (Lightwater Valley) 2) Mean Streak (Cedar Point) (wasn't so bad this year) 3) Anaconda (Kings Dominion) Honestly, if it still counts, I'd say Steel Phantom could replace Anaconda. But that's up to you all seeing as it was a modified ride to become Phantom's Revenge.

Only some of Camper Village was removed for that. There's still a bit of it left. Not much for anything huge, though. Yeah, there still some sites left (and more than one would think). It's just all a part of Lighthouse Point now, hence the reason Camper Village no longer is listed as a resort option. All in all, I like the expansion of Lighthouse Point. Hahaha, that's great. I had to go back and look after you posted this. Wind is usually an issue this time of year. This is my 3rd year living here and I can say that going into fall/winter has always been cold, rainy, and windy. More-so wind this year rather than rain, but high winds are nothing out of the ordinary in October, nonetheless. I went the last day of the season in 2012. Temps were in the upper 30s to lower 40s. The wind was really whipping when we got there and there was rain near the peninsula. As we were riding Millennium Force, it actually started to rain and then sleet (talk about painful). WindSeeker, Power Tower, Iron Dragon, Top Thrill Dragster & Raptor were not running (there were probably more but that's about all I can think of right now). Thankfully, the haunted houses were open on the last day of the season that year, so we were able to hit up Boeckling's Eerie Estate & Eden Musee. We just went for Mantis' closing day recently and I had been watching the weather forecast like a hawk. It was all over the place. I wanted to go down to get my last rides in on Mantis, but I had also yet to ride GateKeeper yet, so I really wanted to make sure I got that in. The winds were forecast to be somewhat up there, but as the day came closer they went down. When we arrived, it was actually a pleasant day. GateKeeper wasn't open when we arrived, but I knew it'd only be a matter of time before it did because WindSeeker was operating. Wind and low temps can make or break a day there. But, forecasting is forecasting, it could not be that windy. It's a gamble either way.

^Michigan's Adventure isn't really having issues at all in most respects, it has the highest profit margin in the chain and attendance has been up. In that sense, it would make sense not to build a really large ride until attendance starts to slip and/or enough money is saved up. Afterall, they're still riding the Thunderhawk wave (yes, I know it was relocated but it increased attendance significantly in 2007 and has been up ever since...even through the downturn). You are correct in the sense that each park operates independently. Each park literally "has their own account". Just don't go to the Facebook pages for the parks because they'll point out about how "The money made at Michigan's Adventure must go to Cedar Point then" . Corporate planning for the parks is great and there is a lot of experience there. Essentially, the General Managers do have quite a bit of say on what can come to the parks now from what has been stated. It passes through corporate and the planning department works with each individual park to figure out the details of the next project. It's a really good system. As for Mean Streak, I had the same feeling when I was there last weekend for the final rides on Mantis. Don't get me wrong, the ride was surprisingly more smooth than I have remembered it being in years. I actually enjoyed it more than usual. But, the transformation of Mantis kind of moves in to show that the park and chain aren't afraid to change things up to make rides declining in ridership a bit more popular. Mantis, in my opinion, wasn't so bad of a stand-up coaster (and was a lot more comfortable when wearing jeans ), but, no doubt, that Rougarou will be popular. It will have the pull of a new coaster and ridership will be high. Not to mention, capacity will be too (now that three trains will be back to running). Loading and unloading also won't take as long as on the stand-up version. While it won't be too terribly of an expensive renovation, Mean Streak more so would be. It will be interesting to see how this goes. If the closing photo booths are any signs, Mantis & Mean Streak have had theirs closed for awhile

A few years back, a train was stopped on the lift hill on Whizzer at Six Flags Great America. I had just finished my lap and we were sitting on the brake run. With the train broken down on the hill, our train was not cleared to enter the station yet. We were stuck there for a good 45 minutes before a maintenance worker was able to get the train on the lift going. For safety purposes, we could not exit the train despite there being a platform next to us. We had to wait to be in the station. All in all, wasn't a big deal to me. It's a comfortable coaster to breakdown on so I ended up taking a nap. Once in and we exited, we received a free drink voucher and free, front-of-the-line pass for a single ride. So we went and grabbed a soda pop and headed to Raging Bull to use our pass.

^^Pretty sure they never stated what they were doing with the name, just that the name would be coming to the park. Bryan Edwards was quoted as saying in the newspaper that it could be naming a new coaster, temporarily re-naming an existing coaster or permanently re-naming an existing coaster. That was the last time anything was said about it so pretty much all options are still on the table.

Actually, when you read Cedar Fair's portfolio online, Kings Islands total market area is 15 million. The words "total market area" aren't included in Valleyfair's description like they are for the other properties. They have 3 million in the area and they only say "combined population base of 9 million people". I guess we'll see what Cedar Fair does with the park over the next few years. But don't get your hopes up to high. Can't believe everything read on here because those that know usually don't speak.

You are right, with Wildcat, now they are down to 16...HMMMMM It's because they count Pipe Scream as a coaster. Therefore, they say they have 17.

I was under the impression that they already had a plan to change it to "The Bat" so it would fall more in line with Banshee. Before that logo was even teased, a lot of Flight Deck merchandise went on sale for 50%-75% off and the logos from the front of the trains were removed. I thought that was a very good sign. That's when I started thinking the name was going to change at least. As for Mantis. I really don't know what to think. Maybe it'll stay and be converted or maybe it'll move to another park where it can begin a new life. A B&M has never been scrapped and I don't see this one being the first one to either.