GigaG

GP comments on the new Flying Turns POV- And some more, slightly less unusual comments- Some of these are plain stupid depending on how much they know, and some are just not knowing. Knoebels seems to be good at answering the questions, however.

Honestly, isn't this POV a little slower than the first official pov? (The leaked one was way too fast and banging into the sides of the trough, but the next POV looked fun.) This looks a bit slow at parts. However, I still think this is a fun-looking ride. And the GP will probably try it a lot because of how plain unusual it is.

Nahh.. they are just fine. Seatbelts weren't standard PTC equipment until the last 20 years or so. They were very rare... I think Texas Cyclone had them - but only in the back car, and not until 1979. American Eagle may have had them put in after the first year or two... Colossus had them with the PTCs. The Kings Island/Dominion, Carowinds parks didn't have seatbelts until in the 90s I believe. They all had one buzz bar (or "drop bar" as we used to call them.) Seatbelts are only for kids on Kennywood's Exterminator. The last time I rode it, they were yelling "DON'T fasten the seat belts!" With the seatbelts on Blue Streak, the park settled on the rule "if the restraint is ON the ride, it MUST be used." We were trained to tell people they were optional as a means to get the trains out with out a shutdown - it was all manual, no luxury of letting a train pause in the brakes. You didn't need the seatbelts to hold you in, they were redundant. If we got a train out late, we risked a shutdown, and that was VERY looked down upon back then. Again, this is all past-operating procedures. I've heard they run things quick in Germany... specifically Olympia Looping. Another big difference between now and then is that we were trained well. Perhaps that wording isn't the best; the level of responsibility we had was much higher than crews are trained to have these days. It was a job where you had to know what was going on everywhere in the station at all times, and had to be able to communicate very clearly with the other 2 guys working the ride. All spiels were manual... we could do 1,250 pph no problem. It's crazy that equipment that was perfectly safe in 1964 seems dangerous in 2013. The ride hasn't gotten faster, hasn't changed much aside from repainting and retracking, and yet they feel the need to butcher classic woodies. Didn't PTC show buzz bar trains at IAPPA recently?

We can have buzz bars... they are just unfortunately rare now. I'd rather see news headlines "man arrested and facing charges for standing up on roller coaster" than "Kings Island Beast strands 30+ riders (during a random and typical lift shutdown.)" If parks cracked down on people misbehaving, that would be good. It's been a long time since I operated a coaster, but I'm going to assume it has to do with making sure the track is clear (and needing that "clear" ride op signal) for the train being allowed to come in. It's a back-up to an Emergency stop button. Imagine if the subways were run that way. The lift shut down reminds me of a news story around the time of the Darien Lake Ride of Steel ejection, where they said "two incidents have happened recently on roller coasters." The second incident? NTAG stopping on the lift and having to be evacuated. Honestly, although there are a lot of clears, I do think it is kind of unsafe to fasten restraints as the train dispatches and saying seatbelts are optional. Honestly, I couldn't imagine a woodie with relatively small buzz bars and no seatbelts. Maybe PTC restraints and no belts, but a buzz bar? By the way, is this sue-happiness why all coasters seem to have staple-a-thon individual restraints instead of loose individual restraints a la Mindbender at SFOG or buzz bars?

What I'm angry about is that now we can't have buzz bars, Mega-Lites, and even THREE TRAIN OPERATION because of either the GP being idiots/loop fanatics or the parks fearing lawsuits. About the complete stop - What is it for? Michigan Adventure runs an Arrow Corkscrew with 1 train (can those even run 2 trains) and it completely stops before coming in.

So, apparently, Iron Dragon has only been running 2 trains. This isn't the sad part. The sad part is why, according to PointBuzz- from user Lowkae. Somebody said (obviously sarcastically) that they can't wait that until this happens to Magnum. My response - that would make me a saaaaad panda.

My first post was wrong - Iron Dragon was almost certainly my first Arrow. I assumed all Arrows at CP had a 48" restriction and my first trip to SFOT was when I was 46", but I forgot Iron Dragon.

The subway is near Cadillac Cars, not Antique Cars, right?

Good to see that it re-opened. I'm a little angry at the belts, but if they really need them, then go for it. If they're just there to appease the GP I'm a bit angry, but this is certainly the most fail-proof way to keep any more ejections from happening (along with being an indicator of whether your body fits in properly, it could also keep an improperly restrained rider in the seat.) While having the ride ops check more closely for a dangerous situation could work, the seat belt, like it or not, provides an extra layer of safety. As long as the ride is running, it's better than if its closed. On another note, I'm afraid of the GP. In the sense that they will force manufacturers to make coasters with stapling OTSRs and/or seatbelts. Imagine if the GP somehow end up forcing ride manufacturers shipping to America to install seatbelts (say goodbye to B&M hyper restraints as we know them) and restricting the intensity of coasters. I'm already angry at the GP's loopy-loop obsession that has meant that parks are forced to choose the SLC over the Mega-Lite. Now, I'm worried that they'll force more restrictive restraints. I really think that the GP they should understand that coasters are one of the safest forms of recreation and you are more likely to be killed driving to the park (this is actually one of the first facts I go to talking to people that are afraid of coasters.) Also, let me say one more thing related to park safety. While you have an extremely tiny chance of being killed on a coaster, I would say the chances of being ejected due to a failing restraint make the chance of being killed in some other way on a coaster look huge. These restraints are designed (correct me if any technicalities are wrong here) with seatbelts (either the lap belt or the shoulder bar backup belt), backup locking mechanisms, and so on. And while the seat belts decrease the already tiny chance of ejection, the restraints - seatbelt or not - will not release and are perfectly fine as long as they are used properly.

What were your first coasters from any coaster manufacturers? Mine- Intamin - Jr. Gemini (first coaster) B&M - Raptor Vekoma - Woodstock Express (CP) Arrow - SFOT Mine Train and Mini Mine Train (I don't know which one was first) - THIS IS WRONG - it is Iron Dragon. Schwarzkopf - Shockwave (SFOT) Giovanola - Titan Premier Rides - Runaway Mountain (SFOT) Chance - Probably the SFOT Canyon Blaster Morgan - Probably Wild Thing Dinn - Probably Mean Streak, but there is a chance it could be the old Texas Giant CCI - Either Shivering Timbers, Zach's Zoomer , Cyclops or Zeus - Not sure which of them was first RCCA - Son of Beast (no loop) Gravity Group - Hades (original) GCI - Renegade How about you guys?

Because its Six Flags Magic Mountain. Seriously, I would imagine the dual station is for high-volume days (or thats how SF uses it), like the 4th of July. Of course, Tatsu seems to be the most popular ride in the park along with X2, so I don't know why it isn't used already.

Because they don't have frivolous lawsuits? I hate to think that because we haven't seen the headbanging lawsuit or the vomit lawsuit. Sadly, I know that parks fear the "airtime lawsuit" and "intensity lawsuit", even though I doubt it could happen (because of the lack of the aforementioned headbanging lawsuit or vomit lawsuit.)

I was in the back, usually in the front on mice, but I figured that it doesn't really matter - both due to the small car and level surface of the turn. Maybe it was having never ridden a dark mouse before? You sure you weren't just in the "staging area" of the launch? That is how they use to run the ride during four train operation. They would send both trains out of the station, the first train would launch, then the second train would park itself on the launch waiting for the block to clear before launching. They were running 3 trains, and Dragster runs with that type of staging area" too. I'm not even sure if the block violation happened, but if I'm right, I remember that our stopping position was where we eventually engaged the catch-car. I actually liked the park, and want to come back to give Nitro another chance and do El Toro some more! As for Nitro, I remember hearing ALL the trims. In the back, its bumpy at the bottom of the first drop, but thats not the huge deal. The floater hills seemed kinda weak compared to Diamondback. I was expecting this "old" B&M to be quite good and forceful, considering my friend's rabid love of Apollo's Chariot along with Diamondback. I ended up getting some good positive G's and weak, trim-ruined negatives.

Here is my little review of the coasters here- Batman - Didn't Ride Bizarro - I believe I found this a bit more forceful than Scream, with a great Zero-G roll and smooth cobra roll. Not to mention the theming. Blackbeard - This kiddie/family coaster can be quite vicious in the back alone in terms of sliding back and forth. Dark Knight - The fastest line on a Wild Mouse I've seen, along with what is likely the most intense ride on a Wild Mouse that I've had. But its still a Wild Mouse. El Toro - El Freakin' Toro. Need I say more? With extreme airtime and tight twists, this ride is epic! Green Lantern - With no trims, I was expecting a ride as forceful, if not more than Mantis. What I got was a drop that seemed less steep and a more drawn-out, less forceful first half. The second half was quite good, however. Kingda Ka - This ride has a weird launch - it seems more and less intense at the same time. Also, the airtime hill does give some floater. The trim brakes atop the tower can be noticed in some seats. The descent from the tower can be bumpy in some seats. On another note, I could have sworn that we advanced onto the launch area before the next train cleared the tower. We then had to wait a while to launch. Nitro - Let me get this out of the way - this ride is overrated. I did not enjoy its airtime at all. Its forceful helix was a bit different from the B&M hyper that I'm used to (Diamondback), but the bunny hops were not as good as expected. Sitting up front slightly enhances the bunny hills. Road Runner Railway - Didn't ride Rolling Thunder (Left) - I didn't feel much airtime near the back. The ride started smooth, but was bumpy near the end. A mediocre ride, if you ask me. Runaway Mine Train - This ride has some weird restraints that I've never seen before. Anyways, the ride gets more and more intense as it goes on. It is also unusual as being the only true mine train that I've rode with a single lift hill (excluding Gemini.) Skull Mountain - The ride's brief outdoor cave section before the main lift is unusual, as is the first tiny lift. While this ride had some exciting turns, it also had a shoddy building, in particular the huge hole near the brake run where they store random stuff, it appears. Superman - Didn't ride.

My half-enthusiast friend has done it AGAIN... We were discussing inverts and KI's rumors and he points out the oldness of the style. I pointed out OzIris, Silver Bullet, and Patriot, 3 inverts under 10 years old. So I say I've greyed out (partially, I don't usually fully grey out) on Bullet's helix to make a point that it isn't a total piece of crap. The conversation drifted to the unusual places I have partial greyouts (including MF and GK at Cedar Point.) So he begins saying how forceless the rides are. Quotes- About MF- And here is parts of his rant on GK- These are really quotes. Probably sarcastic, but harsh.

Even though he's talking about NTAG. This comment unfortunatley is Cedar Point to a T. You think CP is bad with walks of shame? The one ride where I have seen more walks of shame than any other is El Toro (granted, this was practically right after the accident happened.) That said, I've probably seen some on MF, and I know that the seatbelts on MF and TTD are rather unforgiving. While the restraints do lock, I don't think the ride ops should keep a ride running when a rider undoes the belt. I mean, safety first. As for GP comments on the NTAG video-

Wow. I don't see that many walks of shame on MF, don't Mega-Lites have the same trains? I saw way more walks of shame on El Toro.

It angers me that somebody can look at a Mega-Lite - a coaster with a steep drop and high speeds relative to the size of the turns - and call it a kiddie/family coaster, and that's why we can't get one in America. What we need to do is survey random people with a picture of a Mega-Lite and SLC and see how many people think the Mega-Lite is better (or the SLC.) This belongs in the GP thread, but here are some cherry-picked comments from a Piraten POV- I partially agree because it doesn't look too intimidating, but it is not a good first-time ride because it might scare a first-time rider from riding again. Now a comment that gets it-

Warning - RANT AHEAD- Ah, yes, the elusive Mega-Lite in his natural habitat. Never been on one because for some reason, despite the rides intensity and compactness, no American park wants to buy one! Seriously, you have SLCs all over, and nobody wants to buy a more intense ride on a similarly small footprint? I find it hard to believe no park can advertise a Mega-Lite in America. Can't you advertise the intensity, airtime, and twistiness rather than "Loops and hangs below the track" or "Loops and goes backwards"... And even if it costs more, what makes it any more worthwhile in somewhere like the Happy Valley where a Mega-Lite co-exists with a giant SLC? If the GP are that loop-crazy, wouldn't the people at Happy Valley want to ride the SLC instead? Or is it something with America? Lawsuit risk for an intense coaster?

What is a wing-over drop? The only place I've heard that is GateKeeper's marketing (where the real turn is a dive drop.) Well, this seems full of marketing terms. Oh, well, hopefully this goes through!

Based on what I've heard about those, OUCH!

How bad is El Toro for overweight people? I'm overweight (for my short height.) I heard the ride is pretty horrible for overweight people. Just wanted to ask.

First of all, this is a horribly sad incident. Prayers to the family of the woman. Now, I can see a few different ways this could have played out- -The rider was overweight and barely fit into the restraint. -The rider overweight and somehow over-stressed the restraint. -The rider was any weight and was improperly restrained by the operator. -The rider was overweight (or heck, any weight) and sensors (I thnk NTAG has sensors based on what I've heard) gave a false positive that the restraint was locked. -The restraint could have been faulty. -The rider was improperly using the restraint. O.K., now let's go over the outcomes that this could come out with for the ride, and bear in mind some of these could be combined- -The cause is rider error or size. The ride stays identical or becomes more restrictive to larger people. -The cause is operator error, the operators involved are fired or given other jobs, and the ride is identical -Like the first two, the ride stays practically identical, but with extra stapling -The ride is trimmed to death (does NTAG slow on its MCBR by the way?) -The ride gets seat belts. -The restraints are replaced with new lapbars (or in a worst-case scenario, OTSRs, but why?) -The trains are replaced, either by Gerstlauer or RMC trains. -The ride is reprofiled, with airtime-heavy parts being "tamed". -In an almost impossible twist, the ride is torn down. Just my $.02 on this tragedy.

Has anybody noticed that GK is a bit bumpy and clicky for a new ride? Like it vibrates. Quite a bit. To the point where my friend (and this should be taken with a reasonable amount of sodium chloride) thinks the vibration is worse than Gemini.

Maybe if Vekoma gave parks an option to cutomize a boomerang-esque shuttle coaster, there would be more Boomerang designs and maybe the style would become less cliche. Well, its too late for that, really.