Skycoastin Steve

I'll have to respectfully disagree on those two teams. Carolina and Dallas have built pretty good franchises and have won Stanley Cups since moving from their original cities. Even Tampa somehow managed a Stanley Cup, although that team is atrocious nowadays. I agree on the Wild being a pretty horrifically awful nickname for a franchise, only slightly above the Oklahoma City Thunder as the worst nickname in pro sports.

So they're annoying and bad analysts because they talked bad about the golden boy? He had 5 points in a 7 game series, including only one goal. If Crosby scoring a ton of points was a big reason they beat Ottawa, then how is his disappearance in this series not a big reason they lost? As I said before, Pens fans were pretty quick to pile on Ovechkin, who didn't have a horrible series against Montreal, but now are rushing to the defense of Crosby who was a ghost for 7 games.

^Which has been the point I've been making all along. Trash cans I don't notice. Pink trains on my #2 wooden coaster I do notice. If the Timberliners had shown up at Holiday World and been graced with Stride ads, I would have been just as angry about it, if not more. Ads on coaster trains are as cheap as it gets, no matter who is doing it. In this case it just happens to be the leader in cheapness doing it. ^^And I really think I've brought forth several criticisms of CF aside from the trash can thing, which I don't think is a problem at all.

^^I rode Roar back in April and thought it ran pretty well, although I have no previous rides on it to compare. I rode both in the front and the back and found it to be a decent ride, not too rough, and just a middle of the road GCI design. It also had a pretty healthy amount of track work if I remember correctly. ^I believe the tunnel was left open because of fire code. If they enclosed it completely, they would have had to install a sprinkler system. I also believe it's the same reason the tunnel disappeared on Thunder Road.

^^Yeah, I find it very hard to justify a complaint against people who are paying a pretty hefty sum of cash to use a Flash Pass and skip the line. Anyway, a regular Flash Pass just saves you from standing in line, it doesn't save you from waiting whatever the wait time would have been. In some cases, the wait time is over-estimated and you end up waiting longer than you would have if you stood in line. ^Rich people won't take over SF parks as long as season passes are as cheap as they are.

^I agree. To me, that's the most confusing part. I thought it was supposed to have 10 boats, yet they are opening with 4. Are they gradually working up to that many boats? Are they trying to see what number of boats provides the most efficient operation (similar to TTD only using 5 trains instead of 6)? I imagine once they get it operating fully they can determine the best course of action with the boats, so if they don't need 10, they won't receive all 10. That also makes me wonder if they have paid for 10 boats up front or if they pay for them once they actually get them. If they figure out they can run it efficiently with less than 10 and save some money in the process, then it's a win-win situation for the park.

I'm the most intrigued to see how a 95 degree banked turn is going to work with wooden structure. The only 90 degree banking that's been done (steel or wood) has been with a steel structure, presumably because doing it with wooden supports would seem to be much more difficult. I also wish we could get an animated POV of the layout, but I'm guessing they want the final product to retain some secrecy and that's why we aren't seeing one.

The pink trains just make Six Flags look even cheaper than they already are (quite an accomplishment if you ask me). With the dirt cheap season passes that reduce the class of the clientele and turn their parks into advanced day cares, the recycled cookie cutter aspects of their parks, the INSANE amount of ads that just scream WE NEED MONEY AND WE DON'T CARE IF YOU KNOW IT, the back of their uniforms with witticisms like "my family comes here so don't litter," it was pretty difficult for them to look any cheaper. However, they managed to top themselves with El Toro and Kingda Ka. We can agree to disagree on the effect of trash cans on the park experience, but at least Cedar Fair's parks still have identity and some semblance of dignity to them. I could go from SFOG to SFGAd to SFMM to SFOT to SFSL without ever realizing I was in a different park, save for the surrounding area that Six Flags doesn't control. It's the same cheap clientele, the same ride names, the same themed areas, and the same crappy operations (I'm sorry, asking the riders if they're ready to ride 100 times before dispatching doesn't do anything for me except annoy me and make me wait longer). Hell, even the park maps are all almost identical.

^^Because, as the poster just above me stated, I notice things like pink trains on a wooden coaster a lot more than trash cans. It seems the only people who bash the amount of trash cans are the SF lovers who will literally find ANYTHING to complain about with CF, while a LOT of people hate the El Toro trains. Sure, I can poke fun at how sometimes trash cans end up bundled together in odd ways at CF parks, but that's just more of the person organizing those trash cans being a moron rather than the all evil Cedar Fair influence. Cedar Fair isn't perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but I'll never agree with the trash can haters, because as has been said by myself and now the poster above, trash cans hardly ruin the experience at a park. In fact, even as an enthusiast, I never notice where a trash can is until I need to throw something out. Other than that, I don't even look at them. If the same group of people find a pink ad on El Toro a necessary thing also found the Intimidator stickers to be "tacky" or "cheap" theming, then I just have to go ahead and throw the "hypocrite" title out there for that group of people.

^They actually cover the playoffs pretty well, Matthew Barnaby and Barry Melrose are the main guys who cover it. There's also always a segment on the afternoon talk shows dedicated to the NHL playoffs.

^I think there are plenty of negative things to comment on about CF (price and quality of food, pretty steeply priced season passes, their propensity for removing trees, etc.), but trash cans aren't one of them. If the GP can't find somewhere to put trash, they're going to throw it on the ground. It just makes sense. I realize that having a well-trained park services department can help in that case, but it's so much nicer when trash is prevented from hitting the ground in the first place. As far as the El Toro thing goes, I understand SF is trying to make money, and I understand those ads bring in money. But up until now they've done it on coasters that suck and just have really no actual unique aesthetics about them. The whole pink/blue/whatever color wrap on a brown train is God awful, and it just defaces what is one of the best coasters on the planet. Sure, do it to GASM or even Rolling Thunder, but please leave the top 3 wooden coaster alone!

Either way, Pittsburgh mocked the crap out of Washington for losing to the 8 seed, and lo and behold, they nabbed you guys too, with your superstar having a far worse series. That's what happens when you go up against a hot goalie. I just don't know what ESPN is going to do with Crosby and Lebron about to exit their respective playoffs on consecutive days. They may implode, for there is no chosen one to shove down our throats anymore!

^BINGO! That's the way I see it, and I don't think I've ever heard a single member of the GP complain about "too many trash cans." I really just think that's yet another fabricated complaint by enthusiasts who have nothing better to do than nitpick the dumbest things to whine about. Call me crazy, but I nitpick slow and/or unprofessional operations, outrageous food/parking prices, trash on the ground, and other things that actually affect my day while I'm at a park.

^^^ and ^^^^ Gotcha. I'm not totally informed on all the specifics in that situation, but it seems as if it would definitely be better for the NHL if Canada got at least a team or two back. By the way, I need for all the Penguin fans and Ovie bashers to come eat some crow. Hockey Jesus just lost in 7 games to the same team that Ovie did and did WAYYYYYY worse in the series than Ovie did, so where are you guys at???

Thunder Road is going to be fantastic in a few years when GCI is done, the new sections are like butter. I'm looking forward to riding Rebel Yell again, it's been since 2006 for me. Didn't get to ride it opening weekend because I was more worried about riding the monstrous coaster behind it, but I'll be back a few more times this season to get my laps on it. I honestly didn't even notice the removal of the trees at Grizzly, just because my visits to KD have been so infrequent that I really had nothing to base it on.

Point Buzz would not be too happy about that. Also, what could fit there? A ball coaster? Hmmmmmm........

^ and ^^So it's CF's fault that they inherited that crapfest of a coaster? Hurler being awful isn't CF's fault any more than SOB is. It was terrible long before CF came along. Carowinds' Hurler also has a trim at the bottom of the first drop, and the ride has actually gotten a bit smoother (along with extensive track work on the first turn). While it's killed most of the airtime hills after the first two, it's not as rough anymore. The GP is going to appreciate it not being as rough, and most of them wouldn't know what a trim brake was if it hit them in the face. I would even be willing to bet most of them don't even notice it running slower than usual. As I said before, I do believe GCI is doing a rehab on Hurler at Carowinds once they are finished on Thunder Road, but I could be wrong. I don't know if anything more is going to be done with KD's Hurler. Maybe the trim is to save them on maintenance until they fully rehab it. But as I said before, CF is going to do what saves them money, and a majority of the GP won't know the difference in how it rain last year compared to how it's going to run this year.

Is it sad that I practically had the same thought? Or are we just typical guys?

The way I see this whole thing is pretty simple. Shapiro did a noble job fixing the butchery that Premier did on the chain, and he should be commended for it. At this point, it's time for them to get some fresh ideas and new leadership to keep moving forward rather than getting complacent and possibly falling back in the rut they were in before. I think Cedar Fair could learn something from this, although I think Kinzel is close to finally retiring as it is. EDIT: That's pretty much the long and the short of it right there. How much crap do you really need inside the park with you? I bring my wallet, phone, and car key with me into the park and keep them in cargo pockets, and I do just fine.

It operated for nearly two decades now under old management with no trims. All Cedar Fair has done with the woodies at KD is make them worse. It may cost them less money this way, but to me the fact of the matter is all of the rides are worse now and in the end that is all that matters from a guest's standpoint. Don't you think that the reason that Hurler is so horrible now is because it has been performing outside of its limits for the last 16 years? I highly doubt some evil person up in Sandusky said *in evil voice* "nyyaahhhh....screw Kings Dominion, we're going to put a trim on Hurler just to piss them off, nyyaahhh!!" Decisions like that are made from an economical and maintenance standpoint. Sure, it may have run without one for 16 years, but now it's a horrible, rough, uncomfortable, piece of junk. You don't think that's a coincidence, do you? I also rode Grizzly on opening weekend and thought it was running very well. I haven't ridden Rebel Yell since CF bought the park, but I know Thunder Road at Carowinds is going to be fantastic once its 5 year rehab is finished. From what I understand, Hurler is going to get an overhaul once they are done with Thunder Road.

Well THIS should be interesting to see how it shakes out.

^Wasn't a big reason for the move away from Winnipeg because they couldn't support the franchise? It's just such a small market, I don't know how they could stay viable in Winnipeg. While for history's sake it would be great to see them return to Winnipeg, are we sure that it would actually work? I just think the NHL has overreached its bounds with the number of franchises and needs to "trim the fat" a little bit so they stop hemorrhaging money.

I lost faith in humanity when that crap became popular.

So there's a good chance #18 could be replacing the long gone 1st generation Intamin freefall at a certain park bordering a large lake in Ohio. And there's a good chance it will be the same manufacturer as that departed ride. And there's a good chance it'll fit on that plot of land and use the old electric building from previously mentioned ride. That's all I'll offer for now.

^Along the same lines, nobody gave TGG crap for the Boardwalk Bullet problems. No manufacturer of ANY kind of product is perfect.