robbalvey

This is amazing professional journalism:

I think before you compare SFMM's FlashPass option and SFGadv's FlashPass options you should note what coasters at Great Adventure it's good on: Those top 7 coasters could have anywhere from a 45 minute to 90 minute wait even on an average day. And you get unlimited rides on all of them. Where as at SFMM take a look at the list of rides: How many of those ever have more than a 20-30 minute wait? Maybe Tatsu and Deja Vu? Great Adventure seems to spread their crowds out a bit more evenly because most of their coasters are higher capacity and chew through the crowd at an even pace. So you'll have several rides with 45-60 minute waits each, instead of at Magic Mountain where you have 2 or 3 coasters that have 2-3 hours each, but the rest of the coasters have shorter wait times. But at Magic Mountain I'd be willing to bet that during the busy peak of the day a good percentage of people are in line for X2, Tatsu, Terminator, and Deja Vu leaving the other coasters with fairly short wait times. And your $80 at Magic Mountain only gets you *ONE* ride on the parks signature attraction and it's newest attraction. If Great Adventure was only going to give me one ride on El Toro, screw that! I'll just go for opening and run to the coaster. But when I know I can bounce between El Toro and Kingda Ka as much as I want all day long, AND get to ride Nitro, Bizarro, and Superman wait-free, sign me up! I personally don't mind the up-charge that Magic as added to the system, but I do think it should be unlimited rides on each coaster. We will be using the Gold Flash passes for the first time at Discovery Kingdom and Magic Mountain with our group in just a couple of weeks. We just used them at Dollywood, SFOT, SFFT, and SFOT and I absolutely swear by them! --Robb

Great Trip Report! If you have time, would you mind uploading the pictures instead of linking to them? I'd love to include this TR in our park index. --Robb

So who won?

You only needed to be with us at Dollywood to watch the amount of hours spent by KidTums doing things just like this that were not rides. Please try to look at parks outside of what your personal tastes are. *YOU* may not go to parks for shows, crafts, and culture, but do you think that parks would put on these expensive attractions if nobody was interested? Do not underestimate the amount of money put into non-ride experiences and the amount of people who appreciate them. If everyone who visited parks thought exactly like you, BGW wouldn't have the million plus people per year that visit the park over KD. --Robb

I've been on every one of them and I still prefer GA Scorcher. --Robb

I never said they wouldn't draw crowds. I said they wouldn't be surpassing BGW's numbers. If they do, I'll be more than happy to admit I was wrong, but have you ever worked at a park? Do you know what it takes for a park to have an additional 1 million guests per year? When you only operate a full season of about 120 days, that's an additional 8,000 people PER DAY. I can tell you having worked at/with many theme parks that an increase like this is unheard of. And I don't think there is a single park in the world that would be prepared for an additional 8,000 people to come through the gates every day from the year before. I'm guessing that a "busy day" for KD is somewhere around 35,000ish people. So if all of a sudden 25% more people came the next year, I doubt the park would even have the infrastructure to handle it! Even in 2003 when Cedar Point added the tallest, fastest coaster in the world, they only saw an attendance increase of 3.3% or about 108,000 people for the season, or about 1,000 people per day. Trust me, I think you'll see a lot of people at KD in 2010, and I'm not biased about one park over the other, but if you're expecting KD's attendance to jump 800,000 to 1,000,000 additional people in 2010, I think you'll be quite disappointed when it doesn't happen. --Robb "Set realistic expectations - that's my advice." Alvey Agreed.

I really doubt this will be the case. Remember that Busch Gardens is part of a very popular vacation destination (Williamburg) and that has a lot more pull than Doswell. Saying that KD is going to "smoke" BG because they are adding a giant coaster is like saying that BGT is going to "smoke" Disney if they were to add something major. You'll see an increase at KD for sure, but I highly doubt they will ever touch BG's numbers. In 2008 BGW reported attendance of 3,094,000. In 2008, Cedar Fair said "...Our southern region parks entertained 4.4 million guests...the southern region are Kings Dominion, VA; Carowinds, NC; and Worlds of Fun, MO." So when three parks combined = about 3/4 of BGW's attendance alone, it would seem to me that Kings Dominion would have to see and increase of ~1 million guests in 2010 to surpass Busch's numbers. That seems unrealistic to me. I'm sure KD will do very well next year, but I hardly doubt they will be "smoking" Busch. --Robb "Who is not a fan boy of either park, just reading the numbers..." Alvey

I've merged this thread into the "Favorite Coaster Train" thread we already had...which I found using the search function in about 10 seconds. Please use the search next time you are going to create a very general post like this one again. Thank you! --Robb

Well, not too many, which is why I said 42" - 48", BUT if you look at the park's line up, especially with BBW gone, they have a lot for *little* kids, a lot for *big* kids (read: teens), but not much for the kids inbetween. Don't under estimate the amount of 4 to 9 year old kids that come to park who are bored of "kiddie coasters", but too short to ride the B&M's AND the amount of parents that simply won't ride a giant coaster that appears to be that "thrilling." Many people's mentality is that of "Well, if my 6 year old can ride it, how scary can it be?" What about doing a really nice mine train style coaster? Just look at the one Gardaland just opened: IMO, that's a VERY impressive looking ride *AND* it's got a 42" height restriction. BGW doesn't need another 54" B&M monster coaster...they *NEED* another "family attraction." Seriously, look at how great this coaster looks. If this ride was at BGW don't you think that would be awesome? --Robb "Big Thunder Mountain is Disney's most popular coaster for a reason!" Alvey Oh, and FYI DBru - Most wild mice and spinners are also 42". Only in rare cases do you see one of these coasters with a 48" height restriction.

Oh, geez. I'm wrong. Your right. So sorry I got my facts mixed up. Because, you know, it's matters SOOOOO much when the video was shot. --Robb "The video was shot sometime between 1997 and 2003 for those of you who really care..." Alvey

No, not at all. What would be more ridiculous would be if they opened it up before it was ready, with only one or two trains, missing effects, and a ride that was constantly having maintenance issues and breaking down. I'd MUCH rather have the opening delayed and the coaster actually WORK when they do finally open it. And as far as delays go (and I've already said this in this thread), look at rides like Test Track, Splash Mountain, Chiller, Mr. Freeze, Superman: The Escape, etc.... Those rides have much longer delays and today, many years ago, does it really matter? Does anyone really care? Of course not. Be patient. The ride will open when it's READY! There is absolutely *NO* positive side effect to rushing to get a half-baked ride open early. --Robb

It was about on par in it's final years. A couple of things to remember - that video was most likely shot in it's opening year, or very early in it's life so the ride was probably MUCH smoother than it was when they demolished it. It's also a mounted camera POV so it's going to look smoother thanks to the nice camera work! --Robb

No, they don't need to. A solid, signature 42" - 48" attaction would be just fine. --Robb

New segment from Roller Coasters in the RAW Volume 3 posted! Hercules from Dorney Park! [coastertube]http://www.themeparkreview.com/coastertube/play.php?vid=hercules_iiqc[/coastertube] If you haven't ordered your copy of Raw 3 yet, do it now! It's only $10! http://www.themeparkreview.com/store/ --Robb

As my favorite comedian would say "F*ck the children!". I'm not paying $50+ for mild rides (Ok, maybe I am also, but that's besides the point! ). BBW had some intense moments and that's what I loved about it. If they are tearing it down, it better be for a kick-as* coaster. I want an intense terrain coaster, no messing around. If they are going to replace such a great ride, it better be with something BETTER, not worse. And yes, that is my enthusiast opinion. It's the only opinion I really care about. Couldn't agree with you more. If Busch Gardens added another B&M, or even a woodie, I think I would actually go there more than once a year, rather than hanging out at Six Flags America and Kings Dominion. 4 B&Ms at one park would be absolutely great. All I can say is they better go Big with this "replacement", or as usual I will not be going to Busch Gardens anytime soon. Your selfish, closed minded "enthusiast" opinions are ruining "family parks." Sounds like you guys just need to go hang out at Kings Dominion and Six Flags America then. There are places for you, and it's clearly NOT Busch Parks. Are you not smart enough to realize that if all you want is "Big Coaster, Big Coaster, Big Coaster, Big Coaster, etc..." then you're going to turn Busch Gardens into Kings Dominion. Just look at what that mentality did to Knott's Berry Farm... --Robb

You know, I'm happy to see ad campaigns for parks that are really different and creative. Good for them! And I'm glad to see they've had some great success as well. --Robb

Why does the ride need a nickname? I think Kosmo's Curves is actually quite cool as it is. --Robb

Wow! Great news! I do hope they get one of these. More Mega-Lite's is a good thing! --Robb

Shane - I have a question for you - I noticed on the website you sell a 4 hour pass. How do you guys monitor this? And do people opt for this or do they just go for the all day pass that is only $6 more? --Robb

I can totally believe it. *sigh* People just don't know what a good drink is and they are all wooed over by Red Bull's insane marketing. Coke has pretty much let Vault flounder for the past 2 years. --Robb "I have respect for you guys for actually trying it!" Alvey

While I know the two parks are only a couple hours away, how much do they really compete with each other? Seems to be like a very different demographic at each park whenever I've visited. --Robb

Yes, someone here does know exactly where it is located. --Robb

It would be the most logical choice especially if they plan on using any of the already existing terrain for a new coaster.

Is it just me or do the rings look a bit "weak"? --Robb