DCs221

Yeah, Worm wasn't being a jerk. What he said was correct. There have been people who say great things about this, so why can't someone disagree? Does everyone have to say it's awesome? If that were true, then it'd be tough for anyone to improve at anything.

OK it really seems as if you took that way too personally, and I assume you were speaking in reference to the post you quoted, as it's only logical. Anyways not a big deal.

Grow some skin, really don't think that post was malicious.

I know when I rode Millennium Force, I wasn't always completely stapled, and came up off the seat. I was stapled though on Dragster. I've ridden El Toro 18 times, and I've had maybe an inch of space around half to 2/3 of the time. I don't think the stapling is nearly as bad as people complain about, it was certainly much worse the two times I rode Dragster in 2003. They were really thorough and pushed down very hard on that ride. That space really makes a difference in ride quality, because the airtime seems to be sustained longer since you more easily notice/feel the 0-Gish portions. So the correct term is not necessarily negative g's... A: you're not always stapled, and B: airtime is also at 0-g's which isn't negative. ^^There are seatbelts on El Toro, and I assume Voyage too though I haven't ridden it.

MF's drop does have airtime, even in the front row. If someone says otherwise, they're simply wrong. Airtime is defined as ~0-g's worth of normal force or less, so if you so much as float (which you do in the front on MF's drop) then there's airtime. Back row has medium ejector sustained for what seems like forever on MF. As far as the comparison between MF's drop and ET's, I'd have to say they're of a very similar quality, but more different than they may seem without having ridden. Speaking of the back row (best spot on both drops by far) MF's drop is a little more gradual, but sustains it's medium strength ejector air for a very long time, whereas ET's drop transitions at a decent rate to around -1.2 g airtime, which is some of the strongest around. It's really ridiculous, but sustained for only .5 to 1 second or so. MF has the increased height and smaller track/supports too which adds to the fun, but ET is smaller than MF and looks smaller than it is because of the supports and catwalks, yet has some nice headchoppers at the bottom of the drop, and a quicker transition to heavy g's. So yeah they definately both excel at different things, making them awesome in their own way and hard to compare as far as quality goes. Haven't been on Voyage, but when comparing drops, I'm confident in saying MF~ET > Voyage...not that Voyage's drop looks bad at all

Someone asked

Yeah you'd also get Legend and Raven at Holiday World, but don't forget that Great Adventure has Nitro, Kingda Ka, and Chiller, all of which are significantly different than pretty much anything on the west coast.

Seems like you're judging the quality of the ride based mostly on the trains. I'm tall and I think PTCs are more constricting for me....either way, they're close enough in size (and ride quality is close enough) that I don't understand such a huge difference in ranking. You really sound pretty selfish in your opinions and biased in your rankings.

From what I saw while waiting in line and riding El Toro this past Saturday, ET was running at around medium speed. During summer afternoons and nights, it's significantly faster than it was last weekend. I remember just being wowed while watching trains go over the hills during summer afternoons. You can clearly tell the speed difference also from the increased volume of the upstop sound over the first 2 hills, the fact that the drop after the turnaround has a longer duration and slightly louder upstop sound, the seemingly unrelentless speed and louder upstop sound at the hill over RT, and the way the train blows through the final brakes instead of being slowed to a crawl like this weekend. Onride, the floater air of the low hill after the turnaround is also noticeably improved during the summer as the airtime duration is longer, and forces are slightly stronger, going from mostly floater to light ejector. It was still running pretty well, but what you all and myself experienced within the last 2 days is not quite as much airtime strength and overall intensity as the ride gives throughout the summer afternoons/nights. ET is crazy now, but during those times it's *absolutely* ridiculous. lol

Robb, I hear you were at GAdv too Sunday? Is there truth in that claim? If so, I'm curious as to how you compare El Toro to some of the other standout wooden rides you've been on, like Balder, Voyage, Colossos, SROS SFNE, and EGF. EDIT-nevermind, just saw the other thread. I agree that SFA isn't nearly as bad as people say. It's one of my home parks, and I go there all the time. Especially before GAdv got Kingda Ka and El Toro, many times I'd rather go to SFA because the short lines made for more fun days than GAdv, and the rides were nearly as good. Now I definately prefer GAdv since they have those two new coasters which are among my favorites, but SFA is still lots of fun. Can't dislike 5-10+ rerides on SROS with minimal waiting!

Here's the gallery... http://s7.photobucket.com/albums/y272/DCs221/ I couldn't figure out how to move them into the right order within the gallery, so here are the pic links sorted by my age at completion. 12 13 15 15 16 16 17 17 17 18 18 18 (One I think you all should like ; ) 19 19 19 19 Please keep in mind the theme park drawing was done relatively quickly because of it's large size (posterboard) and time constraints. It was a project we had to do for AP US History. My partner did the rock walls, and I did the rest. This is a nearly finished version... I finished it in class the day it was due, and wasn't able to take a newer picture. This version is missing several hotels (one of which features a bobsled coaster weaving into and out of it), cars in the parking lot, some touchups, and some random details throughout the park like more trees etc. Many of the recent drawings, apart from the last one which is in progress, weren't really serious projects so they may not display as much quality as some previous work.

I would've backed coasterfan's argument had I read this earlier. I agree with your last sentence, yes he does have time to improve. With that said, my statement was also my opinion, based on what I've learned about art over the many years I've been drawing. I actually have pictures ranging from age 12 or so to the present 19 if you'd like to see. One of my most important points was if everyone says something's great and all that, then that person won't have anything to go on if they'd like to improve. IMO saying because of that drawing he might currently be, or should be a roller coaster designer is very misleading, especially considering the ridiculous amounts of math and physics in which you must be proficient to even understand many concepts. My post also described many reasons for my criticism, something that nobody or few who praised the work did even at all. How is that helpful if he doesn't even know what one thinks is good about it?

Truthfully...coasterfan is right. It's not very good work. Lines are unclear, coloring is monotone and has way more texture than steel tracks/supports should, actual element shaping isn't too great (but better than many of the other features). The other guys are really building you up, as that's not nearly enough quality for a park to use. I checked out your other drawings, and they have unoriginal layouts, awkward and unrealistic perspectives, and, while it's not a big deal, names stolen from real rides. "Vild Snivet" is not something you should name your ride IMO since it's such an unusual name. Pretty sure it means Wild Boar in English, and I don't think any other ride has that name, let alone in that language. Come up with something more original for the name and layouts, and work on keeping your lines clean. Also try some shading for any detailed tracks you may do. This dive machine could've definately used some. I hope you don't take this the wrong way but if you want to do well in art, you either need to just naturally be ridiculously good, or be able to take criticism and use it to improve. It's not fair to you if everyone says OMGWTF that's amazing!!1! because truth is, it's not.

Or their weight may be nearly negligible since passenger loads vary significantly anyways.

May want to start by correctly spelling the company name. That might help.

Um, from what I read... A: it wasn't resolved. B: the last word was a cheapshot by golfie that was completely incorrect. I prefer the name "Albtraum" to "Nightmare" anyways

Trust me when I say redunzelizer is 100X smarter than you all, listen to what he says. He also doesn't live in the States...his native language is German. His dad was German, as well as his English teacher. Way to not check your sources before making a claim when you have absolutely no clue what you're talking about. I don't personally know the spelling, but I'd put money down that redunzelizer is correct.

Coasterlover, you say that as if there aren't only 3 300'+ 90mph+ intamins, and 50+ under that height lol. Did you forget such gems as EGF, SROS, El Toro, Goliath, Balder, Storm Runner, Colossos, Superman Escape, that random mini-hyper being built, etc. The first 3 of those can't be touched by any B&M in thrills, not even close, and the rest you could make a good case for being better than any remotely similar B&M. All of those are under 210 feet tall, significantly shorter than the 3 entire rides that you cited.

Apollo's Chariot back row has some amazing airtime, especially on 4 of the drops... First is some of the most abrupt and sustained air, and is perfect floater... you don't touch either the harness or the seat until the pullout, it's amazing. The drop also seems a lot larger than it is. The third drop has a twist just after the apex, so backrow riders (already floating in the air) feel as if they're going to float out of the train. The MCBR drop is very unexpected and has a nice pop of ejector/floater, with a quick pullout increasing intensity. The final drop is huge for it's placement in the ride, and has amazing airtime, once again until the pullout. Nitro is probably more like Goliath, with good but less surprising airtime, and nothing stronger than some very slight ejector. Still, AC doesn't come close to the intensity of Intamins like El Toro and Superman SFNE. Those rides are SERIOUS. Both definately have the ability to change peoples' minds about which company is better, but as I said, it seems that the demographic is such that most haven't ridden them or other great Intamins like EGF, Goliath, and most of the rockets.

I like how most people say "B&M this" and "B&M that" but haven't ridden an Intamin, or have only ridden something like California Screamin'. I think the majority of people here are West Coasters, so they don't have rides like Superman SFNE, El Toro, Millennium Force, Kingda Ka, Top Thrill Dragster, Storm Runner, etc. Given the demographic and the way people vote when they don't know what they're talking about, ofcourse B&M will rank highest. I've been fortunate enough to get a great sample of many B&M coasters and Intamin coasters, including some of the best from each company, and I can definately say that as far as thrill, Intamin generally owns B&M. B&Ms are ridiculously reliable, but don't most of you go to parks for thrills? I go to SFA all the time, and I don't think I've been there one day where I wasn't able to ride Superman because of downtime, and I'm sure most of the other non-launched Intamins are the same. A lot of people act like Intamin only makes Rocket Coasters, and they assume every Intamin ride has the same decent to bad reliability, which simply isnt' the case. If you go to a park to have some fun with some good, but ultimately unfulfilling rides, then B&M is for you. I've been on Apollo's Chariot, Raptor, Alpengeist, Nitro, Batman, and other standout B&Ms, and they're really excellent, but not all B&Ms are like that. Medusa is fun but not overly thrilling, and I'm sure the other loopers with similar designs (aka 2/3 of B&M loopers) are almost the same. If you go to a park to get on a ride, laugh and scream the whole way through with a giant smile on your face, and end the ride clapping along with everyone else in the train (I've never seen people as pumped up, happy, and excited after a B&M ride like they are after SROS SFNE, El Toro, Kingda Ka, and TTD) then go ride some Intamins! With that said, I think all parks that can afford it should definately have a B&M, since they're well liked by many demographics. They're sometimes more of 'satisfiers' at parks, whereas Intamins will attract and keep guests excited. Definately a good choice to have both, rather than just several B&Ms and no Intamins, or vice versa.

You're kidding, right...

Nah it was just little bruises on the insides of my shoulders I think, nothing that bad. I wouldn't ride an arrow enough to get bruises lol. Those are much much more uncomfortable than B&Ms, but if you sit in the front of rows then you can kinda slouch which still sucks but not as bad as trying to sit up. Surprisingly I've never had any problems with the 3 floorlesses I've been on, Medusa SFGAdv, Dominator, and Batman Dark Knight. I'd expect the seating ergonomics to be the same, but I guess they're a little different. For reference I'm 6'3" and probably a similar build as the last guy who posted his height. I definately prefer TTD's lapbar over KK's OTSRs, but KK's restraints aren't too bad. Either way, if the attendants don't staple you then the first pullup will so they feel pretty similar other than you can't move around quite as much on KK.

ehh B&M Invert aren't always great for tall skinny people, I know when they go down all the way it's very very uncomfortable if you're tall because you can't slouch in those seats. I've gotten bruises from riding Talon, and that's one of the smoothest coasters around. Kingda Ka's OTSRs are less restricting IMO. I can hardly put my arms up on a B&M, but I can more easily on that ride. I think they're also not as bad because the only time you touch them is while getting airtime, whereas on a B&M Invert they definately push down on me during high force segments, which are more frequent and much more forceful.

I wouldn't say rapidly... that's a VERY drawn out transition. With the lack of banking, and the drawn out hill shaping/banking transitions, I don't think it'll be that great, and I'm about as sure as I can be without having ridden that it won't be anywhere close to as exciting as the rolls that were there previously. They were absolutely amazing IMO, especially with lapbars as opposed to OTSRs.

Airtime is not an opinion. It reflects the normal force that the passengers experience at any given point on the track. I've had a little space between myself and the lapbar, and I rode probably 3/4 of my 15 rides in the back row. Never did I leave my seat at the crest of the lift, and I even was paying attention because I was surprised that some people said there was airtime there. There is none. As I stated, the normal force is lower than 1, meaning you do feel lighter, however it's not close to 0, which is why nobody would come out of their seat because of forces at that point, even without restraints. "I would rather strong ejector air over floater air anytime!!!" 99% of the time, me too! In the case of El Toro... definately! It's airtime is generally awesome. Ofcourse there are exceptions to that, as I'd take really sustained floater air over a very quick pop of ejector most of the time, but I've ridden some of the best predominately floater-air rides in the world, Apollo's Chariot and Nitro, and some of the best predominately ejector-air rides, El Toro and Superman SFNE, and the latter win by a mile, though the former are also some of my favorites.