DILinator

^Cool, thank you! That certainly helps my planning!

The thighs of my son, and myself, would beg to differ! Those restraints CRUSHED them by the end of the coaster in a way that would make Skyrush proud! They literally (and I'm a wordsmith - I don't use that word lightly or inappropriately) were going numb as I sat on the break run. Now, if that's not a restraint issue, do enlighten me. But it sure doesn't seem likely to have anything to do with the track! As for the track though, you're 100% accurate in your description of how that is!

Oh yes, I think anybody can enjoy any coaster, and that's totally ok. I'm not trying to say rides like Vortex or SoB can't be liked, or have their fans. Just that they ARE objectively rough coasters, and responding to somebody else's comment, was explaining why people who call them rough aren't "pussies", or "babies". They're the more "normal" riders. I'll never ride Vortex again, but I know a few of you on here like it, so to each their own. If somebody hasn't been to the park, and wants to get the credit, I wouldn't try to dissuade them from doing so (though, interestingly, I'm not much of a credit whore, as I've been to Carowinds twice now, and didn't ride the Boomerang, or kiddie coasters either time. If a "credit" doesn't appeal to me, I'm not likely to ride it, as credits aren't the ultimate goal for me when I go to a park.)

^Wait... So does that troll face mean it won't be those dates? Great, now I'm more confused! lol

Cool, thanks! I figured it was a set weekend all the time, but wasn't sure what determined it!

I know this is ridiculously early, but I also know that some official HW people peruse this thread, and others may know as well, so I figured it wouldn't hurt to ask. What days will Holiwood Nights be next year? I tried to figure it out, but I wasn't sure if it would be the 29th and 30th of May, or the first weekend of June as it typically is, even though that weekend is later than normal, the 5th and 6th. If it's always a certain weekend, or if somebody official knows, it'd be great to know for my early planning! Thanks!

If KIGA was more like Fury, only 330-350 feet instead of barely creeping over the 300 foot mark, and with a similarly dynamic layout, I would be a lot more excited about it than I am. Now, don't get me wrong, I'm very excited about it, simply because it's another Giga, and I have full confidence the layout will have some exciting flourishes thrown in that we don't know about yet, and KI is a park I go to regularly, so I'll get to ride it much more than Fury (plus, night rides at KI are the greatest!) However, given that it doesn't appear (at the moment) to do anything super new or out of the ordinary, I am more excited about Pantheon, since it's a more unique coaster experience than what I'm likely to get on KIGA. Same with Candymonium, which I'm also excited about, but not as much as Pantheon.

^Hmm... Interesting... The #1 thing I dislike about the Flying Dutchman's, is going up the lift hill on your back! If it's night, or overcast, as some of my rides on them have been, it's not so bad. But if it's a bright, sunny day (as it was when I rode Nighthawk), it's brutal! Of course, my eyes are photophobic, and water, and sting, if they get subjected to too much light, so that contributes to the discomfort of the situation. It's a little hard to enjoy a coaster when you can't open your eyes because they're watering, and burning during the duration of the ride. So that was a big negative with the Vekoma's for me. Perhaps if you started on your back in the station, and then dropped down after you left it, and inverted, like you do off the lifts currently, it wouldn't be so bad. You'd still be going up the hill under the track, which is a great part of the B&M's in my opinion!

Respectfully, this really isn't the case, as there are two problems with this line of reasoning. 1) Coasters can objectively be rough, and as I mentioned before, we coaster enthusiasts are not the ones to properly determine what that is, because we ride so many coasters we are desensitized to a lot of what IS rough, to the average everyday person. Regardless of whether you loved SoB (masochist!), or I loved Drachen Fire, both coasters WERE objectively rough enough to the average everyday rider, that they were removed. Like I said, I had back pain for DAYS, the only time that's ever happened in my nearly 40 years of coaster riding, and I've ridden hundreds of coasters, so I know how to ride them. Knowing how to ride it isn't the issue, the fact it was made poorly, and caused A LOT of people physical discomfort (something which really shouldn't be a part of any coaster experience, honestly, but we enthusiasts love the thrill enough to justify it oftentimes) was the problem. Hence it's gone. I am very confident, that with a couple of years Vortex will be joining both of the aforementioned coasters as a former coaster. In the end, no matter how much our personal tolerances (and that's also what it boils down to) shake out, there IS an objective standard of roughness. While these coasters may not have bothered you, they did bother me, as well as many others who have echoed my sentiments, both enthusiast and GP, and that experience is as valid as yours, or anybody else's. Add up a large number of people (mostly comprised of GP) who find a coaster to be rough or uncomfortable, and it can be accurately stated to be a rough coaster. 2) If you have to ride a coaster "defensively", it's clearly not a smooth coaster. I suppose some use that argument about one of my favorite coasters, The Voyage, and I will admit, there are probably better ways to ride it than others. But if a coaster has to be ridden defensively, it's basically acknowledging it IS rough, as a coaster should be designed to provide as comfortable of an experience as possible for the riders. Obviously, some types of coasters will be more "rough" or "uncomfortable" than others, such as a wooden coaster, and some of that should be expected by anybody getting on one of those. However, even though we, as enthusiasts can say that, at the end of the day, if Karen and her family get on a wooden coaster, and experience a bit of discomfort, they'll likely complain, and the park WILL take notice if enough people are doing that. As such, I can assure you, parks are not looking to build intentionally uncomfortable coasters that could lead to those scenarios, so as much as a subset of enthusiasts loves to be beat around on a coaster, or feels like violent ejector or laterals are all "a part of what makes it a great coaster experience", that is not the typical opinion, nor is it the patron that amusement parks are building coasters for. So again, there should be no need to ride a coaster defensively, and if there is, while it may still be a fun coaster, or a great one of some people's eyes, it does make it a "rough" coaster, objectively.

Thanks for the update on the Old Country area! As I mentioned, I haven't been since 2017, and that area was still closed off. It's awesome that they've opened it up since they added Cyborg! Maybe they'll even expand a few more small things along that trail, though admittedly, there isn't a ton of room there now. As for the Northern Star Arena, I stand corrected, as it doesn't appear as run down as my (apparently faulty) memory recalls it. I just remember feeling like that area around it seemed rather abandoned the last two times I went to the park, but perhaps I was inserting the image of the Movietown arena in there instead... Who knows... Bottom line is though, I was wrong about the Northern Star arena, and clearly it is unlikely to go anywhere anytime soon! If GreatAdv adds any roller coaster at all for 2020 I'll happily videotape myself eating my foot in slow-mo and post it for all you nerds to j/o to. Quoting this for posterity! My only question is whether you're allowed to put mustard and ketchup on it, or you have to eat it without any condiments! (FWIW - I'm not saying for sure there WILL be a coaster added in 2020, but it makes complete sense that one is going to come to this park before long, and if one isn't added in the next few years, I will eat MY foot! ) We got a real snazzy path to our world record drop ride in Guam. I audibly LOL'd!

^ Hence, why in my previous post I referred to their potential incarnation as being called "East Coast Racers"! Both cloning that coaster, and naming it that, seemed like very Six Flags things to do!

I actually liked Firehawk (and its incarnation as X-Flight before it), so I'm not automatically a "hater" of Flying Dutchmans. Heck, I've also championed the Flyer (either type - but not Volare's) as one of the most underrated and underappreciated coaster models out there by enthusiasts at least! So my take on Nighthawk comes from a place of liking the concept, and liking the execution on the S:UF's and Firehawk/X-Flight, and LOVING Tatsu and Manta, which are excellent coasters. And my take is that one of these things is not like the others (Hint: It's nighthawk.) It IS rougher than Firehawk/X-Flight ever was, and as much as I wanted to like the coaster, because I love Flying coasters, and the location at Carowinds is fantastic, I just couldn't be a fan of it due to the rougher ride. Given the fact you also somehow think Vortex isn't rough, which is literally the most painful experience I've ever had on a coaster since Son of Beast, I have to agree that you're probablyjust a masochist (as many enthusiasts tend to be when it comes to tolerating roughness for the sake of coasters that they like - hey, I still don't get why people think The Voyage is so rough, and defend Drachen Fire to this day!) Everybody has different tolerances for "roughness" on coasters, and what they think is, or is not rough. It has nothing to do with some people being "babies". The reality is, there is an objective scale of roughness, that the vast majority of riders, especially among non-enthusiasts (who are also not babies), determine, since they are less accustomed to tolerating extreme forces than enthusiasts who ride a ton of coasters are. Number of coasters ridden actually makes a person less, not more, qualified to say what is or isn't rough, since there is a certain desensitization that happens with those of us who have ridden a lot. In the case of both Nighthawk and Vortex, I think the problem is that they have some very jerky transitions, which for whatever reason on those particular coasters, weren't engineered as well as some of their counterparts. I think Stand-Up coasters in general are a bad idea, and haven't ridden too many that were objectively smooth. Riddler's Revenge comes to mind, as well as the beginning of Mantis. Green Lantern is not one of the better ones in that regard, and Vortex takes the poor transitions to a whole different level. But hey, if it rides comfortably to you, and anybody else who doesn't think it's that bad, then great for you! But it was awful when I rode it, and I really enjoy some coasters others think are very rough, so I don't think the problem is my tolerance levels... (Also, S:UF gets WAY too much enthusiast hate. Every GP I know enjoys those coasters, as do I, and most people at parks seem to as well. Sure, they are uninspired layouts, but that doesn't mean they're bad coasters. At least they're pretty smooth, which is the problem with the Flying Dutchman models, in spite of having much more interesting layouts.)

Well, the "not in Georgia" clue eliminates it simply being a DC Kids area re-brand, so that's something. I like both the Sky Roller idea, and that other crazy looking Zamperla that's at Coney Island! Either would be a great, unique addition, to what I already consider the best SF park!

Regarding the North Star Arena, I didn't know about it still being used much, not being a local. Literally every time I've been to the park (going back to the 90's) it's looked like a run-down dump, and that area as a whole feels like the part of the park that time forgot (yes, I know they have an actual part of the park like that, where the Old Country section used to be.) It was just a thought though, and certainly they can work around that arena in that part of the park, as it does make sense to expand there at some point to liven the area up. Having said that, with the removal of El Diablo this year (which I actually just learned about since my last post! lol Random Larson Loops have never been high on my radar!), and apparently some land clearing around El Toro, there is some thought something may goes there. Who knows... It's not like the park has any shortage of places to expand. Also, while I get that it's become humorous (and pretty cliche, honestly) around enthusiast circles that SF:GAdv hasn't gotten anything large scale in years, and this could absolutely be another red herring, it also may not be, and that's totally reasonable as well. As one of the premier SF parks, and in one of if not THE largest market, GAdv is definitely a prime location for a larger addition than most of the chain gets at some point. I mean, look at West Coast Racers, and there's absolutely no reason to think GAdv wouldn't get something like that at some point. I mean, I get keeping your expectations low guys, but coaster enthusiasts participate in a lot of "memes" about certain things in the industry, and many times, eventually those memes are proven wrong. There is no reason to think a park of GAdv's caliber will never get a coaster addition larger than Joker again. Maybe next year will be the year, maybe it won't be. But at some point, they will get another larger (relatively speaking) coaster, it's only a matter of time. It's not a big deal to me one way or the other, and I certainly have no expectations for this announcement to be anything but much ado about nothing. But I just figured I'd point this out, since it seems some people are too quick to be dismissive about certain coaster topics (such as this one), when logic and reason bears out that the joke will eventually be on them, and not the people eagerly hoping for another large coaster at GAdv, as it usually is.

I had a change of plans, and in an effort to save some gas money, and also get my kids a better coaster (and presumably park) experience, I'm going to skip Family Day at Strickers this year, and instead go to Waldameer on the 11th! Kennywood is still on the docket for the next day, but I'm excited to get to my first amusement park of the entire year, Waldameer!

That would be correct. You never know for sure, but I wouldn't expect crowds. Don't buy Fastlane in advance unless you really, really, really like Vekoma flying coasters. Both times I've been to Carowinds, it's been beautiful, hot days in the middle of the Summer, and I have yet to wait more than a half hour for anything there, besides the dreadful Nighthawk! Afterburn was only running one train the one time, and was pretty slow, resulting in the other half hour wait. So yeah, aside from that one coaster, I found Carowinds to be a nice park for smaller lines.

You're not wrong! I accept it for what it is, and it never stops me from going! Also, I have never been to the safari, in spite of being to this park more than any parks other than my "local" parks. I am now wishing my sister and I had done that when we got tired of the park two years ago, and then maybe we would have felt more up to staying until close and getting night rides on the bull. Oh well... Hopefully it's another non-crowded day next time I go, and I can finally check it out! This 2020 addition announcement is intriguing... I had pegged the park for possibly getting an "East Coast Racers", pretty much a clone of what SFMM got. However, unless these "world records" are mundane and ridiculous (an absolute possibility, and maybe even likelihood!), I am not sure how it would fit that addition. This announcement definitely makes the 2020 speculation more interesting though! Question for those in the know. Is there a height limit for this park? I know there is that AFB fairly nearby, so I wondered if they would be limited. I'm going to predict that regardless of what this is, if it a coaster with any size or substance to it at all, I think they will be removing the North Star Arena, and placing it over there, bringing more traffic and revitalization to that corner of the park.

I am super excited about Pantheon, and cannot wait to get back out to BGW to check it out with my kids! BGW is easily one of my 5 favorite parks, and I haven't been there in 17 years, 18 by next season! It was so good back then, and has only gotten better, so I am absolutely stoked for finally getting back out there, and it will be my #1 priority trip, alongside taking to the kids to their first Holiwood Nights, and our regular visit to Kings Island! My only question, for those who have delved further into the leaked details than I, is how accurate the POV layout that is commonly floating around out there (the one with blue track and whitish-grey supports), is to what we can tell from what the park announced today. The lack of a POV with the announcement was a little surprising, but I wondered if the leaked layout was so spot on that they didn't feel a pressure to release an official one of their own yet. Specifically, I'm wondering if the two inversions (not their existence, which IS confirmed), and what they are, have been confirmed by this park announcement. That stall element is really awesome looking, and I hope it's on the actual coaster! Not sure if this'll be the best 2020 coaster or not, since their sister park may very well get that honor with RMC Gwazi, but it's likely the best new coaster I'll be able to ride next year (my next Florida trip is 2021), so I'm super pumped! KIGA (my pet name for it until we are told otherwise!) is sure to be awesome, and whatever Holiday World is doing will be amazing as well, I'm sure! But Pantheon is definitely in the - wait for it - pantheon of 2020 coaster additions, and will be very much in contention for best new coaster of the year, I'm sure! Well done once again, BGW! To echo Bill's sentiments, I love this park (and the SEAS parks in general!)

PA is such an epic state for amusement parks and coasters! If I could only ride the coasters in one state, and no others, the rest of my life, I'm really torn between OH, and PA! I look forward to hearing about your experience at CW, Zach! Hopefully, it was better than GAdv, and boosted your morale, instead of lowering it! I noticed that you didn't mention Behemoth in your post above, which is my favorite coaster at the park currently (since I haven't ridden Leviathan and Yukon Striker yet.) Were you not a big fan?

Sorry you had a less than stellar visit to SF:GAdv... It's interesting, because I've been to that park more than most non-"local" amusement parks, and while I really appreciate a lot about the park - its coaster collection, some of the flats - it also doesn't get a high spot on my Park Rankings, because of the "but" that always seems to follow a description of something I enjoyed about the park. I have had similar crowd experiences most of my visits to the park, including a really bad time the one time I took my then-wife for her first (and only) visit, and she professed to actually being scared at times by the intimidation, and other sketchy things that were going on all around us. Having said that, I thought the park was a lot better in that regard the last time I went there a couple of years ago. I have yet to ever have the misfortune of going to the park when it's super busy. We went July 5th of 2017, and didn't have a substantial wait for much of anything. Definitely nothing more than a half-hour. My sister and I rode everything we wanted, rode the bull a bunch of times, and could have marathoned it for hours on end, but instead decided to leave a few hours before the park closed. I still can't believe we did that, looking back, but we'd done what we'd wanted to, had a good time, but were tired and didn't feel like pushing ourselves past that point, just to hang in the park a few more hours, and get some El Toro night rides. As you mentioned in your post in the other thread, and alluded to here, times change, and as you get older, what you want out of a park experience often changes. So while I'm sorry it was such a rough day for you two, I'm not entirely surprised by anything you mentioned in your TR. Also, thanks for the lengthy TR, and all the time that went into it. I know how daunting that can be, and in spite of being a writer myself, whenever I am faced with writing a TR about a trip, I tend to avoid it, postpone it, and usually end up never writing it! Take my trip to SF:Gadv two years ago for instance... I still haven't written that one, in spite of saying I would two years ago! Oh well... So, just know the time and effort you expended is appreciated.

I don't think it's a coaster, really, but as far as big flats go, SFOT has about every kind that Six Flags likes to dabble in, and there are a TON of different ones in CA. The fact that he is specifically saying "one" would seem to indicate it's something, singular, that is coming, as opposed to a rethemed kids area, which I know is a popular idea. Having said that, he could just as easily be referring to a rethemed kids area as the "one" thing, and (correct me if I'm wrong) there are no DC Super Friends areas at SFOT, or either CA SF park. If so, I'd expect it to just replace Kidzville, most likely, not the other areas.

This guys gets it! Also, for a park like Hersheypark, I don't even think the name is a bad one! If it was at Cedar Point or Magic Mountain, I'd probably think it was kind of lame, but for a coaster at HP, it actually seems very fitting! I'm not sure why there's so much uproar over it! Also, I LOVE Twizzlers, and consider them my favorite candy! So all you haters can go suck a warhead! In truth, I am not big into sweets, or candy, or even dessert or chocolate. But if I do eat candy, I prefer fruity to chocolaty. After Twizzlers, Skittles are my favorite, with Resses Pieces following them as my favorite non-fruity candy. But truthfully, I know all that candy stuff is garbage, so I generally try to avoid it. But comparing Twizzers to nasty stuff like Orange Peanuts and Candy Corn? For shame! At least nobody compared them to the abomination that is Peeps!

I have never had much of an issue with this over the years, but then last year, for the first time ever, I got walk-of-shamed on Wicked Twister. MF was tighter then as well, but I still made it. However, sadly, I have gone in the wrong direction since then, and am genuinely a little worried for the first time ever, as I prepare to go to my first parks since last year in a couple of weeks. I'm not a lot bigger, and I'm not worried a lot about it, but it is on my mind... As such, I was wondering what the coasters at Waldameer and Kennywood are like for bigger guys? I've been to both parks, but when I was about 30 pounds smaller, so I wasn't even paying attention to it. Should I have concerns with any of the coasters at either place? Thanks!

I love Hersheypark, and I love, love, love this addition and expansion for them! I think B&M Hypers are all excellent coasters, and this one looks like it has some of the best features, and environment, of the lot of them! I also think the whole new front area is fantastic, and can't wait to see it in person, hopefully next year! As for Wildcat, it's definitely on the rougher side of the coaster spectrum, but when it comes to the re-tracking vs. RMC debate, I'm not sure why it's even a debate... As others have said, even a retrack isn't likely to make the coaster move up much in rank in its own park, let alone anywhere else. Meanwhile, an RMC conversion has 100% of the time, proven to be an improving investment, and a great hit for a park. I'm not sure there's really any downside to a conversion, if they decide to address Wildcat, and if anybody seriously thinks it being the first GCI will have any bearing on whether HP decides to RMC it or not... Well...

Jumping into the conversation, and going back to Prozach's original post, as a 40 year old, I agree with what he's saying about the passing of time can change perspective on coastering. However, as a parent of 4, 3 of which are now big coaster lovers themselves (15,12,10), I've been able to experience a renaissance of my coaster enthusiasm in my late 30's, and into my 40's! While I got into the hobby in my mid-20's (after going to Cedar Point every other year or so since the early 80's when I was 4), my then-wife and I went hard at it, going to a ton of parks in a few years, and racking up a ton of credits. My first child didn't slow us down too much, and that first year or two, we'd just take a sitter along with us to the park, and take turns watching the kid. When we got our second and third back to back though, that pretty much marked the temporary end of my coaster enthusiast days, at least as far as going anywhere other than CP was concerned. This happened just as I entered my 30's, and for about 5-6 years, I was mostly away from the hobby. Once my kids started getting tall enough (and brave enough, in the case of my oldest, who was a late coaster bloomer) though, my second coaster enthusiast wind began, and let me tell you, I've never enjoyed going to parks as much as I am loving going with my three oldest kids now! They're totally into the parks, and the coasters, and are quickly accruing a nice collection of credits themselves, as they get to a couple of new parks a year, in addition to the CP (and MiA) trips that got them started down this path. I don't have a lot of money, so it's hard to go crazy with trips, but I try to do what I can, and we've been able to do alright getting around. We're likely going to Waldameer and Kennywood (their first time for both) in a couple weeks, and I am hoping that trips to Holiday World, Kentucky Kingdom, and Hersheypark come to fruition next year, and possibly BGW and SDC, if I somehow become wealthier before then! At any rate, my point is that how I approach the hobby, the parks, the coasters, and pretty much everything, has matured and changed in my current iteration of enthusiasm, and I think a lot of that is a natural progression. I'm not sure that I'd still feel as passionate about amusement parks and roller coasters as I do now, if I'd have been childless and hitting parks constantly for the past 18 years either. But being able to go with my kids, and experience things anew with them, has really reinvigorated my passion for it, and I look forward to continuing in this vein for years, as my youngest is only 5, and has many years of coaster riding likely ahead of him! I definitely don't do parks like I used to, and actually left SFGAdv hours before closing a couple of years ago when my sister and I had done the whole park to our hearts' content, and were ready to go, skipping night rides on El Toro even. That would have been unfathomable to me years ago! But times change, and sometimes, it just takes some time away, and a change in perspective and environment, to make a tired hobby, new again!