neil009

Oh brother.

What do those coasters have anything to do with each other? It's not like Lagoon and CP are competitors. Clearly this needed more explanation. I grew up with CP always being the "cutting edge" park, always having the biggest and best of everything. I've always thought of them as competing against the whole world, not just their regional competitors. So I was pretty disappointed in the news that they're getting a B&M dive machine because to me, these rides are totally outmoded. Their only claim to fame was the vertical drop, which is now a common element on rides both much smaller and much larger including three at Cedar Point itself. And now the cherry on top is that a tiny park in Utah, one year prior, is opening a ride that appears to do everything a B&M dive machine does except 3x better. That's my humble opinion, if you'd like to discuss the various merits of this argument we should probably take it to the CP thread but anyway that's what I meant.

^^I apologize if I came across as aggressive. Only the first two paragraphs of my original post was intended for you specifically, the rest was more a comment on the forum in general. Although, then in response you gave me a perfect example of the kind of attitude I was arguing against in the first place, so kudos for that.

Now there's a funny thought. No chance of any "hybrid" records because steel supports + steel track = not a hybrid. But there's no governing body determining what is or is not a hybrid coaster, like there is for chocolate or scotch, so I would bet just the fact that the supports are "wooden-style" would be enough for them to call it a hybrid. My impression was if SF had an exclusivity deal it would be on the style of track and the process, meaning no loop hole, but I thought it was kind of looking like that was never really true to begin with anyway.

Welp I'm basing it on the last 15 years or so of Six Flags' flagship parks such as Gradv and MM. Neither park saw the attendance numbers they had in the 90's despite adding huge attractions like X2, KK, Goliath, El Toro, Tatsu etc; If those rides couldn't help grow the parks attendance back to their peaks, what makes you think they'll continue to install costly attractions as such? There isn't this huge window that regional parks have of potential guests. Six Flags parks for the MOST part attract locals, moreso than even certain Cedar Fair parks. So you're asking me to prove you wrong, yet you're making a baseless statement yourself. Gradv is "broke", okay what the actual f**k? It's a well-known fact that Six Flags as a whole is more or less broke, this has been the case for a long time, and they decide when SFGAdv gets major additions, not the park itself. That's not a baseless statement. Attendance records alone don't support the claim that SFGAdv shouldn't or won't continue to make major coaster additions when possible. Their aim is always going to be growing their attendance numbers, and how do you propose they do that outside of major additions? You expect a huge corporation like SF to throw up their hands and say "Welp, the park is as popular as it's ever gonna get, guess we'll just give up and install carnival rides from now on"? That doesn't make any sense. People? Or YOU? To be 100% Gradv doesn't give a f*** about YOU. Their main concern is the GP who spend dollars in their park. The average Joe has not seen or ridden a 4d free spin, it's been getting great reviews at SFFT and that's more than likely why Gradv is moving forward with one. Not because YOU approve Calm down dude, my whole point is this isn't worth arguing about. When did I, or anyone, say SFGAdv cares what we think? And why do YOU care so much what I think? It doesn't effect you at all. Everyone has the right to their opinion, and this particular opinion has about ten years of history behind it. I'm not criticizing anyone else for being excited for the new ride, so why should I have to be criticized for being not-so-excited? I can and WILL tell you that you're wrong. Like that commercial says "you're now free to fly about the country." If you don't like what Gradv is putting in, simply go to a park that has something that intrigues you. Is it really worth all this energy? It sounds a bit like you need to take a walk, get some fresh air.

I would pay a very substantial sum of money to ride Bizarro how it used to be. Last year it felt like riding in a shopping cart over asphalt. Even if they kept the restraints how they are and tightened up the trains so they rode like they're supposed to, I would be satisfied. Honestly I want to ride WC very badly, but I feel very little desire to return to the park otherwise.

That's a pretty huge leap in logic. Not saying you're wrong, just that that's very far from hard evidence. The "blueprints" could've been literally anything.

Wait wait wait. What are you talking about? They reached their potential growth peaks in the 90's? WTF does that even mean? You're telling me there's no longer any need for any major expansions? Why does any park ever need to expand? What are you even basing that on? I'm sure SF would love for SFGAdv to add major rides at the same rate as, say, Cedar Point, but they're broke as hell. That's the ONLY reason, as far as I'm aware, and everything else is bullshit. You're welcome to prove me wrong but I'd need something based in, you know, reality. People have every right to be disappointed in the addition of a 4D freespin clone. Yeah I'm sure it's going to be a great ride, yeah I'm glad they're getting anything as opposed to nothing, but you can't tell me I'm wrong to be disappointed, when we could just as easily be getting an RMC original or a B&M wing coaster (if it's as awesome as Thunderbird). When in the past you've been served prime rib, and years go by and now you're getting ground beef, obviously that's going to cause some level of grousing. It's just natural. If people are allowed to vent and move on then there's no problem, nothing to start a flame war over. This is what I don't get about this forum. Compare to other hobbies. If this was Star Wars we were talking about and we just came out of the premier of The Phantom Menace and I was complaining, would you seriously tell me "Just be glad you got anything at all"?

Is there any hard evidence RMC is doing anything with TT? It's still just wishful thinking at this point, right? I'm pretty sure you just pulled this out of your tookus. Am I wrong? With a new layout and stronger forces, of course they'd need to add onto the structure. The ride was built with the current layout in mind.

^But would you agree that BD isn't worth missing just to spend another day fighting the crowds and lame operations at SFNE? Especially with it being on a weekend. You would be doing yourself a massive disservice to put yourself through that, with free soda, lighter crowds, picturesque scenery, and 1/2 hour waits on one of the greatest wooden coasters ever made sitting like 40 minutes away.

Spend the second day at Lake Compounce and ride Boulder Dash. It's better than any ride at SFNE. SFNE is not worth two days. You'll thank me for this.

^That inversion you see them working on had some of the harshest jolts to it, so whatever was wrong with it, here's hoping it's fixed.

That depends completely on personal reference as they're both very different. Personally, with the way the Voyage is currently running, I would give El Toro the slight edge, but that's mostly because I prefer extreme forces. The power of El Toro's ejector airtime is very unique, if you go into the Voyage expecting forces like that, you'll be disappointed. However, Voyage is much, much longer, and instead of relying on only about four moments of extreme force like El Toro does, there's tons and tons of floater airtime all along the course, even where you'd least expect it. Both rides are very fast and "out of control", but Voyage feels much more like a traditional wooden coaster because that's what it is, so you get jostled around a lot more, and there's also tons of lateral forces to go with the airtime whereas El Toro has almost no laterals to speak of. Voyage also has looser restraints and a better setting (going through the woods), and lots of tunnels. In all you'd think I'd like Voyage more, but I simply didn't react to it emotionally as strongly as I do El Toro. The other thing that has to be considered is the other rides at the park. El Toro is the only wooden coaster at SFGA, and the only coaster there that does what it does. The Voyage is competing against two other world-class wooden coasters that have a lot of the same great qualities that the Voyage does. This means it just doesn't stand out to quite the same degree that El Toro does, at least how it's running now. It's not as forceful as the old inverts, but the forces it does have are surprising and exciting because they're so unique. In the outer left seats going around the zero G roll, instead of getting pushed straight down into your seat like you are on an invert, you're pushed to the side due to the distance between yourself and the track. At nighttime this is extremely disorienting and because it leads straight into the next turn you can hardly tell when you're rightside-up again. It also feels much faster because of how closely you're cutting through the trees. I only had two criticisms for Thunderbird: I was also not a fan of how tight the restraints are. I can't say whether I would've preferred the old style of restraints, but gosh darn it, why do they have to be so #$*&%*@ tight?? The other thing is the very obvious chainlink fence kind of upsets the visuals of flying through the barn, I guess because you come so close to it. It must be to keep animals away or something, but I really wish it hadn't been necessary. Maybe after some plants grown in around it and it gets more weathered and less shiny, it'll be less distracting.

Chances are good this drop is going to crap all over the first drop of the dive coaster Cedar Point is supposedly building. Seriously, why are they even bothering...

^^Very glad to hear Thunderbolt is running better. I was so disappointed last year, the layout has such potential and I wanted so bad to like it, but it was just too rough. I'm looking forward to giving it another chance.

It may have just been the last car of Possessed. If it's going to be rough anywhere, that's where. I've never experienced any kind of headbanging on Storm Runner. Coaster riding is very subjective.

Talon is the smoothest and my personal favorite at the park, Steel Force and Possessed are also smooth. Hydra is mostly a smooth ride with just some minor rattling. Stinger is pretty smooth too, especially if you ride in the front and Thunderhawk is pretty brutal, but the airtime in the front is pretty good and still worth a try. My ride in the last row of Possessed in May was very, very far from smooth. It rattled all over the place, I was really surprised. Talon and Steel Force are really the only rides at Dorney you could call smooth. SF is one of the most rerideable coasters I've ever ridden, smooth, fast and fun, but also pretty gentle with super comfy trains. Thunderhawk really is not bad though, at least compared to rides like Wildcat at Hershey. I actually really enjoy it right up until the big trim towards the end.

I know I'm probably not the first person to mention this but it's a shame they're working so hard to save an SLC instead of bulldozing it and putting something better there.

I went on a Saturday in August and the rides were all walk-ons until sunset (perfect weather). Something about charging $8 for a single ride keeps the lines pretty short. I didn't actually have a problem with TB's restraints. The hard plastic headrest, yes, the restraints, no.

^Aren't the ones in Texas also supposed to be very temperamental?

Having a witness helps for litigation purposes but it also works towards preventing incidents from happening again in the future. I.E. also a safety precaution. Although, funny story, just yesterday on Lightning Run at KK while sitting on the break run, the kid sitting directly in front of me no longer had his shirt on. He'd taken it off at some point in the middle of the ride, and I hadn't even noticed. He literally could've sprouted wings and flown out of the train and I wouldn't have seen it. Hope they never need me for a witness...

We ended up visiting here on Sunday and had a very nice time. Lightning Run was awesome, as expected. Thunder Run was great, too, I thought the layout really delivered. The ops were so SLOW though! Consistently slow throughout the whole park. What was weird is most employees seemed happy and into their job, but it was almost like the park told them to slow down and take their time. Seriously the most methodical safety procedures I've ever seen... reading the whole safety spiel before letting anyone into the ride area, waiting for every single passenger to clear the boarding area before opening the air gates... agonizingly slow.

There were a few who seemed to think it was an improvement, making the ride more comfortable/rerideable. But everyone seemed to agree, it was different. It's frustrating to me because I really wanted the full experience, I had my expectations extremely high. I still liked it, and I'm not even sure I would've liked it more unbraked, but I may never find out. The disappointment is pretty sharp. But everything else about the trip was so great it basically made up for it.

I was very pleasantly surprised by Thunderbird. The two swooping turns are a bit of a waste (one I could see, but do you really need two?) but you HAUL through everything else. It actually convinced me of the potential for wing coasters. The zero g roll in the back outer left seat has some awesome bizarre laterals going on that you wouldn't get from any other ride type. And at night... man oh man! The whole course (save those two turns) has a great sense of sustained speed which is a theme among the coasters at HW. A very worthy addition to their line-up. Again, very pleasantly surprised. I can't comment on the change to the Voyage since this was my first time. I loved it, as I did all the coasters, but I will say that it was not as intense as I expected given all the hype. For "most intense coaster", I would actually have to give that to the Legend this weekend. The Voyage may have the "running a marathon" sensation, but the Legend was producing sustained laterals much more intense than any I've ever felt before. There were two or three moments of forcefulness that the Voyage never even came close to. Ultimately though, when you're dealing with three separate rides all equally nonstop crazy and intense, distinctions like these hardly matter at all.

I'm a little bit foggy still from sleepiness and having been assaulted by wooden coaster epicness for the past five hours, but... I seriously had the most amazing time. Holiday World did a spectacular job. The Legend is one of the most criminally underrated coasters I've ever ridden.