PaTim

Since the Iron Horse treatments have all been at SixFlags parks, I would say the Boss and Monstre will be the next to receive them.

One of your non-enthusiast Facebook friends shares a video of a coaster and you post a comment containing a YouTube video of a more-extreme version of that ride.

Exactly, Mean Steak is boring. It doesn't matter how rough/smooth it is, it will always be a Dinn/Summers design in its current profile. Their firm didn't like airtime incorporated into their rides(Sources: Wild Rides on Discovery Channel in 1996 and an interview with Charles Dinn about Hercules as it was being built). CP remains amazing in its collection of steel coasters, but an awesome woodie in their lineup would be epic.

Haha! How could you not want an RMC? Living in PA and having SFNE only a 3 hour drive from me is really exciting from my perspective with yesterday's confirmation of WC. I haven't ridden one yet but I think it's safe to assume that I'm going to love the ride. I have a love for wooden coasters, and with that being said I would be ecstatic for CP to have an awesome example of one. I used to goto CP every year until 2005 and I made a pact that the next time I go out will be because they finally built a good woodie. Ever since SFGadv built El Toro I haven't had much reason to make the 6+ hour drive to CP when I could get the same or better quality coasters, wood or steel, at parks much closer to me.

It seems as if the whole Iron Horse revamp of Mean Streak just isn't going to happen. Even though it hasn't been said, it appears that RMC has a contract with Six Flags that may be continuing for several more years. I believe Fred Grubb said at the most recent IAPPA that the company is completely booked for the next few years. With that being said, let's have some fun and speculate. I would not be surprised if a competitor not named Intamin came out with their own prefabricated track to revamp troublesome woodies. Would it be that difficult for say, GCI, to approach a third party construction company to create a wooden track that's laser cut from a higher quality laid-up vaneer? That's exactly what Intamin did with Cordes, and has certainly been successful in terms of ride quality. The reason I mention GCI is because they seem to have a good relationship with Cedar Fair, and it appears they may be upping their game in the near future. It's obvious that Mean Streak has low popularity among CP guests when compared to their other coasters, and it will continue to dwindle as the park adds more rides and still runs this ride in its current state. All that sums up to "something" being done with it, and hopefully it will be sooner than later. Done correctly with the advancements that have been made, MS could be transformed into an excellent ride. It sure would be nice for a park that calls itself "America's Roller Coast" to have a top notch woodie.

May I add that the chah-cool color looks wicked pissah!

Based on the video and overview of the layout, I have to honestly say I'm very impressed. It's like I actually got more that I was expecting. This ride will be absolutley PACKED with elements, and it might end up being a very "enduring" coaster. What stands out to me is the ending, as appears to have a very low(height wise) profile guaranteeing a very speedy and possibly disorienting experience. I also feel that this ride appears to embrace traditional coaster elements in a great way, 14 negative g-force moments says it all. The inversions will just be an added bonus of pure awesomeness. It's safe to say I'll be making the trip to SFNE in 2015.

^ It's funny you posted a video of Anaconda, which like Cyclone was a Bill Cobb design. I never rode the Cyclone in its original form, but there's a few videos on YouTube that portray it in its opening year. Even in those videos it resembled pretty much every other Cobb coaster, where it barely made it over it's hills, which were very rounded and seemed to be engineered to eliminate negative g-forces. IMHO PTC was light years ahead of Cobb in that time period, as their coasters were designed to have floater airtime and consistent speed. Wasn't it Cobb who said he liked to incorporate "heart-stopping pauses" in his rides?

Out of all the gigas currently in existence, this one appears to be the most complete ride by far. Reasons: 1)Great track length- unlike Leviathan which ends too quickly 2) Excellent emphasis on speed- After the first drop there is no subsequent hill over 191', guaranteeing the best aspect of all the other gigas. 3)Airtime hills- It appears as if there will be more airtime moments than the others as well, and unlike the rest, this one actually ends on camelback hills. 4)No trim breaks- I know this one may be irrelevant because they can be added at anytime, but one could point out that in the preview videos for previous B&M mega-coasters did include the trims. This one does not Unfortunately you can't please everybody, but this is the tallest and fastest traditional coaster ever built, and it's completely devoid of simple gimmicks. I hope I get a chance to ride at some point in my life.

Random thought, I think white would look cool as an I-Box color on these painted woodies. Monochromatic looks really good in some instances.

Cyclone was one of the smoothest coasters in the park. I've had rougher rides on Batman, and compared to Boulder Dash, Cyclone was smooth as butter. I ride Cyclone once in 2007 in the very front row, so obviously my exposure is limited and the front is generally the smoothest party of the train. However, that one ride I had was glass smooth. Regarding the ride, it had some intensity and airtime, but the pacing was extremely erratic with a lot of slow points. Because of that I'm in favor of the transformation, as it seems like coasters with consistent speed remain popular.

By no means do I consider myself a "tough" individual who can handle more than the average person. I bring this up solely based on my trip to Hersheypark yesterday. When riding Wildcat, a coaster that is almost unanimously considered to be overly-rough, I came off the ride baffled. I have ridden this coaster many times, and while it has noticeable shaking and vibrations, at no time did I find it uncomfortable. As a matter of fact Ive ridden it many times since it was built, and have never had an experience which I would consider brutal. The rattling experience simply didn't transfer to my body, which I would certainly attribute to the train design. I've also ridden Son of Beast, The Voyage, Psyclone, Mean Streak, and grew up with Hercules at Dorney Park. Out of those particular rides the only element of any of those rides I considered to be borderline "too-rough" was the lake-turn on Hercules, which many found to still be the best part of the ride. So, in essence, my question is: Has advances in engineering technology made us demand a coaster that is nothing other than glass-smooth? The tolerance for roughness seems to be the same across the spectrum of both enthusiasts and general public, however there's no question that the average coaster of several decades ago was rougher than the one of today. I'm also aware that in order for the park to maximize profit, limiting liability is a good strategy. But, after my experience I was questioning whether we just complain too much. Thoughts?

I doubt there's an actual limit, if you think about it when the train traverses a steep incline it doesn't exert much force on the track, therefore not needing extensive inspection. The lack of 80 degree drops on traditional wooden coasters is most likely attributed to lack of demand.

I find it interesting how the Voyage being as large as it is only cost $6.5 million..For comparison the much smaller and now defunct Hercules at Dorney Park also cost $6.5 million, and that was built in 1989.

Given the location of Thunderbird it may be safe to assume that a lot of its riders will ride the Voyage on their way. Considering this factor, this is the perfect addition to Holiday World. I can imagine a hypothetical scenario where they instead decided to build a coaster like the Smiler at Alton Towers, because that would certainly raise a lot of questions.

With the likely large specs of this new ride coupled with the fact that it's next to the Voyage it's safe to assume that adding a few park benches to that particular area might not be a bad idea.

So apparently the park thinks that what ever is coming to the park next year is going to be bigger than SROS was? She also said it would be better than all of the things the park added the last few years combined Is a new ride replacing Cyclone or will it be a hybrid wooden coaster? Maybe it'll be a new RMC coaster build from scratch,like Goliath. But bigger I would think it's almost guaranteed to be a rehab on the same level as NTAG, Iron Rattler, and Medusa Steel Coaster. There's just too many signs pointing to this happening, and it seemingly makes great sense as an investment. You have a lower cost than building a new coaster from scratch and the guarantee of a world-class thrill ride. Those two factors combined with the fact that this particular coaster was so well known among the park's visitors for several decades makes this type of project low-risk, high reward. Honestly, while this ride was ahead of its time when it was built in 1983, I was never a huge fan of it. It was one of the most erratically-paced wooden coasters in existence with far too many high, slow points. That was common with Cobb's designs, he loved incorporating pauses into his rides at a time when consistent speed wasn't a huge factor when parks were looking to build new coasters. The experience this ride provided will somewhat live on, as its bigger, younger brother still will operate at LaRonde.

Nice layout, nothing fancy but since it's TGG it will most likely pack a nice punch. Hopefully they will use Timberliners.

This may be GCI beginning to push the envelope while limiting their liability.

How's the airtime on ST? One thing I noticed about CCI coasters is that their standout quality is their intensity, however while they have airtime it's not the ejector type that you will find on, for example, Intamin coasters. Grant you I haven't ridden ST or Boulder Dash, I have read reviews stating that they do have great airtime as well as reviews that say that their airtime is overstated. For the most part it seems as if the coasters, regardless of manufacturer, with ejector-type airtime are designed with hydraulic restraints in mind.

Based on other examples, adding Timberliners or even Millennium Flyers wouldn't be a very good idea unless the ride was completely retracked. The Wildcat, Hades 360, Gwazi, and the Voyage are all examples of where this was attempted and the results were far before expectations. With the first three of those rides, there was hardly any track modifications before the new trains were added, and with the Voyage there was substantial track work however the park still decided to scrap the idea. One could think that the cost of a complete track replacement doesn't warrant the desired improvements, as Holiday World made quite an effort to get those trains running. These trains have shown to function fantastically when they run initially with the ride, but horribly when they're added after the track has been damaged by PTC's.

Being from PA I find it hard to believe you consider the 70's + outdated........There are many coasters older than that that are in incredible shape....... This is one of those coasters growing up that I seen on tv specials that always intrigued me...such an amazing looking first drop and impressive structure. There was a reason why I specified "outdated woodies of the 70's, 80's, and early 90's", however, I should have been even more specific. The time period I was targeting was the late 70's until the early 90's. Why? Well, that's the strange history of wooden coasters. It was during this time that they experienced a "regression through progression" in their designs. Basically they got rougher as the limits were being pushed, but there are other several reasons why this happened that can be explained at another time. It's very safe to say that the plurality of wooden coasters still in existence today that were built before this specific time period run very well. I've ridden Cyclone and while it has its moments, it doesn't live up to most woodies built in the last 10-15 years. It has a lot of slow periods, its airtime is sporadic at best, and any intensity it provides is mostly due to the rough ride that it gives. There comes a point where guaranteed success trumps nostalgia, and this becomes the case with an RMC makeover for several reasons: 1)It gives the park two world class coasters. 2)It will preserve the ride's nostalgia by actually providing a more intense experience than it currently provides. 3)It will become more rideable resulting in less liability. 4)Lower maintenance costs It's a win-win situation for both the park and its guests.

If this is going to be a conversion, the thought of having this alongside Bizzaro makes it very tempting to visit SFNE again. Personally, I was never a Cobb fan. He was well known for incorporating a lot of "pausing" in his designs for anticipatory reasons. To me, these pauses simply caused erratic pacing. Traditional woodies are, by far, my favorite coaster types but with the advancements made even on the traditional level in the last 10 years makes me welcome these RMC conversions when done to the more outdated woodies of the 70's, 80's, and early 90's.

You're obviously correct in your assertions. I think a better way to put it is that a park like CP, which aims to be the premier coaster park in the world, should have a top-of-the-line woodie. The best coaster park in the world is going to cater to enthusiasts as well as the GP, and most enthusiasts love wooden rides. If CP decides to build a record breaking wooden coaster it's almost guaranteed to be a hit, given that the only companies that manufacture them also produce very intense experiences. I would find it hard to believe that even if they decided not to go with RMC, TGG, GCI, or Intamin wouldn't provide a mind-blowing ride, given that almost all of those company's designs are very intense for their size, regardless of how big they actually are. This discussion has been going on for well over a decade now, and I'm sure upper management at CP is aware of it. Most of us feel that the time is almost certainly near for the park to act and give us enthusiasts the ride we've been waiting for. And yes, it is a good decision for a park to cater to enthusiasts because it's not too often that you here of a high-ranking coaster of any type not being a tremendous hit with the GP as well.

Part of the reason people don't like woodies is because they were at their local giant corporate park riding a huge but poorly maintained wood coaster. A properly maintained wood coaster draws riders, no problem. Look at Kennywood, Holiday World, Knoebels. When big parks started building HUGE woodies in the 80s (well, 1978 for Colossus), that's when the problems really started. Even the mid-sized Cedar Fair racing coasters have become headache machines with those heavy/frankensteined trains (ratchet bars, tight seats/seat dividers, headrests/hard backs). It seems that any woodie with double-axle trains gets rough without meticulous upkeep, even the mid-sized examples. The market for wooden coasters just never called for better designed trains and tracks as parks were still buying the status-quo, so it didn't make sense to make any changes. It seems that once the late 90's came around and these coasters started to show their wear and tear improvements were made. If you think about it, Morgan "almost" got it right but the trains were too uncomfortable. I question the whole size issue with traditional woodies, in other words if these huge rides started with trains like MF's or Timberliners it makes sense to wonder how hey would ride today. Could a wooden coaster the size of Mean Streak or even SOB with traditional track and these types of trains run well? As long as they open with those trains it may be reasonable to say that they might.