PaTim

Oh it runs like garbage, year after year, and there's no reason for it to be that way, IF they were intending to keep it long term, which I doubt. I don't mind my coasters rough and enjoy it a lot, but when I see people coming off of it looking like they'll never ride it again, I can hardly blame them. I agree the location is an issue, but it's not like they're the only rides back there, you've also got the wild mouse, whip, musical express, and a few others. Assuming you count LR as one ride then I'd say it gets at least twice the ridership of Wildcat since I usually wait a bit longer for it and it has double the capacity. IMO LR is also just too good a ride to remove, it's unique and they use photos of it in a lot of their advertising, it perfectly fits their image of a high-class family park. I don't see them iron horsing Wildcat, not enough for them to market (no records to break, etc). I think the best thing for them to do is clear it out and build a new, better coaster to draw the crowds back to that side of the park and to LR. That's my personal prediction, if the next major coaster installation doesn't go in that spot, then the one after that will. I mean keep in mind, Hershey is VERY short on space. Also, a brake-less Comet would potentially be one of the best wooden coasters in the world, but unfortunately we won't see that happen in this or any other lifetime. Good point about the other rides being back there. It's interesting to speculate because based on recent attendance figures Hersheypark is beginning to bury its competition. Now I'm wondering about the whole Midway America section in regards to the future of the park. It seems that water park additions and expansions are fail-safe ways to increase attendance, and it would make perfect sense if Hershey were to follow Holiday World's model and go crazy with the Boardwalk. Of course in order to do that the whole MA section, or at least a big part of it, would have to be compromised. The challenge is, like you said, the fact that LR is a very good ride with marketability. Also, Wildcat runs horribly(also like you said), I would go as far as to say it ran better with the PTC's. Throwing a more "submissive" train like MF's on a track that's already warped seems to only make the ride rougher(see Hades 360). It's kind of like driving on a Pennsylvania road with a small car compared to a big one, you feel every bump in the small car. The brake-less Comet is one of the coolest, yet non-business friendly ideas for the park. Could you imagine how crazy that second half would be? But as we all know the Comet in it's current state remains one of the most popular rides in the park.

Let's get on this project, stat! One would think that the project cost would be in the $10-15 million range(hypothetical estimation), and with the increased pedestrian traffic due to the popularity of the neighboring Maverick(which was $25 million) this would be a feasible and successful undertaking. Good information with the calculations.

Multiple reasons why simply steepening the drop would work. Yes, the drop could be steepened but only to a certain degree, presumably no more than 10° due to the laws of physics. I won't go to deep into this, just know that negative g-forces, train length, and velocity play the biggest role in this. Also, Cedar Point has a water table of about 1m, which is why there aren't any underground tunnels at CP. It would be more practical to steepen the lift hill, therefore allowing a higher vertical ascent in the same amount of space. This would allow for more vertical clearance to achieve a steep drop in a safe and feasible manner. Very interesting information about the water table, I always wondered about that, due to the obvious fact that CP is on a peninsula. Maybe that's why the supposed gas-line underneath MS can be an issue, because it's not buried very deeply under the soil. I also wonder if steepening the lift hill to 45 degrees could give it a height record, as obviously the trough of the first drop will need to be changed as a result of the increased speed.

I can only speak from personal experience, but based on my visits to Hershey(which are frequent) both Wildcat and LR get very low ridership. One big problem is obviously their location, they reside in prime areas for the Boardwalk to expand, and doesn't seem inconceivable to question both coaster's roles in the future of the park. I always wondered if the non-enthusiast community looked at both rides as somewhat similar experiences, because in all honesty they are. On a side note, I always though that when it comes to HP wooden coasters, a brake-less Comet would be the best of the three. The park expansion is certainly necessary, as Hershey has become a major player in the amusement industry and to say it gets ridiculously packed would be an understatement. I mentioned before that as a park it has the unique distinction of having the infrastructure and draw of a large Six Flags/Cedar Fair park but offering a somewhat superior family atmosphere.

There's no question that having RMC come in and do their "magic" seems to be the best idea. I offer this proposal: Track: -Topper Track, not I-BOX....that way they can keep it officially classified as a wooden coaster. Based on Outlaw Run, having Topper Track and steel wheels reatains the classic wood coaster feel while remaining very smooth. First Drop: -This is a different idea than what has been proposed. No need to raise the lift height, simply steepen the drop and go into an underground tunnel. Based on what was able to be done by steepening the drop on Texas Giant and getting a whole extra airtime hill out of it, you can seemingly get another 40+ feet with ease, ending up with an over 200' drop, which would set the record for largest and fastest wooden coaster in the world. Now, I'm not claiming to know the feasibility of this idea, be it that I read that MS is built over a gas line, but it should certainly be considered. I believe no other CP coaster has a first drop into a tunnel, so that would be another good reason to do it. Rest Of The Ride: -Just have RMC do what it does best. Tell them to do whatever they want, just go crazy. Airtime hills and inversions would be easy to incorporate because MS has a lot of straight sections. Sideways airtime hills could be utilized on the curves. Marketing: -Do what SFOT did and do the rehab during the operating season. MS may get riders, but it's nowhere near as popular as the other large coasters in the park. By doing it during the summer, park visitors see first hand what's going on, and because of CP's location it clearly gets a lot of business from repeat visitors the word would get around very quickly as to what's happening. That way when it comes time for the official announcement and marketing blitz, people don't get confused. After all is said and done, we now have the new "best" coaster at CP according to enthusiasts. It's a guaranteed slam dunk

It looks unbelievable. It also sounds like it's running with steel wheels.

Those pictures highlighting the suspension system are quite captivating. I always thought PTC should do that with their product, utilizing the articulation units they already have and switching to the one-bench, trailored design with a zero-car. I digress, and needless to say Goliath appears to be a winner.

^ A common misconception about Hersheypark is its size. It's far from small, sure it has some compact aspects about it but it's certainly large enough to be classified as such. Another thing to remember is that it's not necessarily a regional park. Hershey PA by itself is a major tourist destination. It actualy serves 3 of the 4 largest CSA's in the BOSWASH megaplex conglomeration(New York, Philadelphia, Baltimore/Washington), so in some ways it's better geographically-positioned than most other parks in the country. The attendance is warranted, and I believe it climbed into the top 20 in the last decade or so, which parallels the time they were heavily investing in coasters. The park is very well rounded as far as the customer base is concerned, as it thoroughly caters to families as well as coaster fanatics, which tends to occur more commonly in smaller parks, hence the "small park" identity. It also isn't affiliated with any mainstream entertainment organizations unlike Six Flags and Cedar Fair which are loaded with branding. In other words, it's understandable why someone would think it's a small park.

This is going to make for quite an awkward first honeymoon night. I mean, if you think about it, over 50% of all marriages end in divorce, and how do you think this lady is going to feel every single time the ferris wheel forgets her birthday and their anniversary? I give this relationship 2 years, tops. I really want to hear conservative radio and television offer their opinions on this.

The 90's were the decade for B&M, the 2000's for Intamin, and the 2010's will go down as the RMC decade. With this ride they have cemented themselves as the dominant manufacturer of high-quality, large coasters in the present time. Not only do they offer the highest quality, but they do it at a much lower cost than just about everybody. This ride just looks like it's at another level. There's really nothing more to say about RMC. Not to be corny but it's nice to see an American company doing what they're doing.

This ride really looks promising. I have a question regarding its engineering. Does Chance calculate the forces or is it done by Ride Centerline Inc.(Alan Shilke's firm)? I read that Shilke is designing the trains and at the same time I know the company's older coasters were designed by Steve Okamoto. If Shilke is involved I think it's safe to say he's become the Werner Stengel of the United States.

I think the only proof that can be made in regards to them enhancing the ride experience is when and where TGG builds a larger coaster that runs them initially. If we look at Millennium Flyers(The other single-axle traditional wooden coaster train), it seems that every coaster that ran them right from the beginning isn't having rideability issues. One thing of note is many of those rides are over a decade old, yet continue to operate smoothly. Some have needed minor re-tracking, but nothing to the extent of what you see on, for example, Mean Streak which needs significant re-tracking on a yearly basis. On the other hand, we see a completely different situation with Wildcat and Gwazi. Both rides started with PTC's, which due to the fact that they are dual-axle and lack steering bogies, have a hunting effect which damages the track. The end result is a ride that get's progressively rougher requiring significant maintenance. Both rides had MF's added in recent years, but even though those trains are single-axle resulting in less wear and tear, at the same time they are more "submissive" to the track. Think of the difference between driving a compact car versus an SUV on a bumpy road. The end result was a seemingly rougher ride for each of them. The exact same thing seems to have occurred with Hades 360. It would appear that the only way to improve a wooden coaster when adding single-axle trains is to completely rebuild the track, none of which occurred in the 3 rides mentioned above. Most people agree that Hades 360 runs very smooth in the brand new section, but is worse everywhere else. I've also read that compared to PTC's, MF's are actually heavier while Timberliners are lighter. Weight can actually change the dynamics of the ride, which is reason to believe why Holiday World(which takes great care of their coasters) opted to not run them on the Voyage. They may have made the ride slower, or they may have ridden in the same manner as they did on Hades. Everything I'm saying is just speculation, but it "seems" to make sense. It's probably safe to say that even a very large coaster that initially runs Timberliners should be far smoother with less maintenance than one that begins with PTC's or any other double-axle train.

You say the "oncoming riders" announcement to yourself as you're getting in your car. And, if you live in Ohio, this is probably accompanied by the Millennium Force station music playing in the back of your head.

Apart from the RMC conversions, complete wooden coaster refurbishments are very rare. Even in the in the case of Hades 360 it wasn't a complete redo, and we've learned that in order to prevent continued roughness simply adding a new train doesn't help. As a matter of fact it seems as if adding a train that's more "submissive" to the track, such as the case with Hades 360 and Wildcat, actuallys makes it worse. With that being said, I've always wondered how GCI MF trains would perform on a coaster the size of Mean Streak in a scenario where it was completely retracked. It seems as if every single GCI that started with MF's is holding up extremely well, and some of their rides have been around for quite some time now. A lot of people will mention that these rides aren't very large compared to designs by other manufacturers, but at the same time rides of similar size(the 90 foot tall, 50mph range) that start with PTC's or any other double-axle trains seem to always get just as rough as the larger coasters if they don't get the proper maintenance. GCI is starting to slowly venture into larger designs so it will be interesting to see what happens in regards to whether or not a manufacturer can actually create a very large traditional wooden coaster that doesn't go the way of the older Dinn/Summers creations. I actually think it would be cool if they refurbished Mean Streak by converting it to one of their new switchback designs, which they can easily(probably) do with the layout it has.

In regards to concern about the track style expressed a few pages back, the Morgan coasters currently in existence are all well over a decade old and are still amazingly smooth. As a matter of fact I swear that Steel Force is actually smoother than any Intamin or B&M I've ever ridden. Of course that's an arbitrary perspective but I'm wondering if anyone else agrees.