tororific

Not sure exactly what the criteria is for which is "better." If the criteria is who makes the "best" coasters in terms of ride design and "fun" of riding / ride forces (for an enthusiast), it has to be Intamin in my view. It's not even close. I don't see what B&M ride can compete with El Toro, Superman (Bizarro) at SFNE, Top Thrill Dragster, Kingda Ka, Maverick (and, from what I hear, I-305, Ge Expedition Force, and T-Express, Balder) in terms of intensity, design, and fun. B&M's inverteds are close, but their hypers and other designs are relatively bland in comparison (although I am a big fan of Nitro). IF the criteria is dependability and comfort, B&M wins. IF its innovation in coaster design, that's a push to me.

I rode Shockwave close to its demise, and I don't think it was THAT horribly rough. Sure, it slammed you around, but I don't know. It's odd how little shelf life those coasters had at both SFGam and SFGad - was maintenance cost the real story, with declining ridership? Interesting how Viper remains.

Haha for sure, they wasted no time dropping that bombshell, we haven't even had our woodie for a full season yet and they are already trying to top it! It continues . . . . but vengeance is mine, now, because I moved from California to Chicago!

Yup, I agree with the above. MF is for the general public, more than the enthusiast. It remains so highly rate (overrated?) partly because it was the first giga and because it is located in a very high profile park. I went to CP with a bunch of non-enthusiasts last week, and for all them, MF was the "BEST" ride at the park, whereas i would generally take Magnum or Maverick or even Raptor or Blue Streak in the rain over MF. But I started to see MF through their eyes and had some great rides on it. I have come around to appreciate it more.

Probably the Demon at PGA in Santa Clara, just because i went to that park so many times as a kid. Maybe Tidal Wave?

I have always hated the Grizzly, for at least two reasons. First, I remember hearing rumors in 1981 at Great America in Santa Clara of a massive wooden rollercoaster that had opened at Great America in Illinois (it's funny and odd to think back of those pre-internet days -- everything was so mysterious and I had no easy way to confirm and disconfirm the existence of what turned out to be American Eagle . . .well, I suppose I could have called the park, but in those days there was just these mythical things that you heard of but had no direct access to see . . . I recall thinking about this mythical coaster in Illinois for years, without even knowing if it really existed . . . .) Anyway, when I heard Grizzly was coming, I figured it would our version of something massive, wooden and great. Thus began the constant inferiority complex between the two parks - they got a 300 ft. Skytower, we got a 200 ft. version, they got American Eagle, we got a smaller and vastly inferior Grizzly, they got Iron Wolf, we got a smaller and shorter Vortex, they got Batman, we got a shorter Top Gun (although that one might have been almost a push), and we could go on and on. So, in that context, I was already irked at getting Grizzly versus an American Eagle type ride. THEN, I rode it, and it is an awful, bland, worthless ride experience on top of it . . . . They should burn it. A cleansing fire . . . .

I have been on: Alpengeist Top Gun (PGA) Raptor Batman (SFGam, SFMM, and SFGaD) Dueling Dragons I vote for Alpengeist. I love the use of the terrain and that high speed blast from the loop down into the cobra roll is pretty spectacular. Force-wise, it isn't the best, but as a total package, I think it is a great ride, with a great theme. Looking forward to riding Montu in the next couple of weeks.

Rides: Top Thrill Dragster is hard to beat in sheer intensity (but more intense, in my view, than Kingda Ka because of the lap bars) El Toro is up there as well. Batman Portions of Rides The little section of Kumba from the heartline (or whatever it is) into the drop and the cobra roll is pretty intense. The Beast's helix.

Six Flags Great America. Glad it is, given the 2014 offering.

Yup, later in the day and night was definitely much better than the morning ERT times. I was shocked by how much air the return hill from the island was giving at night in the front couple of cars.

After building a custom RMC coaster at the park. I doubt they will do a take over of American Eagle. I could maybe see them do some work to it but I doubt we will see a RMC hybrid of American Eagle. why not something along the lines of the Texas Giant or Iron Rattler? It's a comparatively cheap way to put new life into a ride, although I agree that topper track is more likely.

Sure looks like it -- surprise air would be gravy on top. I only hope it is a huge success and RMC take over American Eagle soon

Lots of bugs at night at this time of year, but I found that as long as you don't sit in the front car on MF, you largely avoid them. In my view, MF is absolutely a second or first car ride -- and this is from a devoted back seat rider.

went to the park on Thursday through Sunday. Stayed at Hotel Breakers - was expecting a horrible, worn-down room, but what I got was actually surprisingly nice (the value of low expectations). Overall, I was pretty impressed with the operations of the park. The park was very clean. All the coasters were up and running all days and they ran them at full capacity on Saturday and Sunday. The dispatch times were relatively good (and light years better than what I see at Six Flags parks). My runs on Millennium Force have caused me to undergo a major reevaluation of that ride. In my previous visits (about 3 priors) I always experienced it as a relatively meh-coaster, with a great drop and then a so-so remainder, generally devoid of any good airtime, particularly because I am more of a back-seat rider. I decided to ride the second-seat of the first car and the first seat of the second car a lot this weekend, and, although the first drop is less intense, I got some great floater air on the 180-foot hill and some really massive, sustained air on the return hill from the island, plus a great floater pop on the station bunny hill. Plus, I started (maybe for the first time) appreciating its relentless speed through the whole course-- there really is no let up. In any event, probably for the first time, I enjoyed it substantially more than Magnum and its rising in my rankings. Maverick was fun - imagine if it had lap bars . . . Raptor continues to be great. Gatekeeper was fine -- I thought the second seat gave a great ride, no harness tightening, and I got some nice floater air on the air time hill (well, as best as you can get with that harness), and came off the ride relatively impressed. I then rode the back seat and encountered all the complaints I have heard -- rattling and shaking, tightening harness, and pretty forceless. Magnum is still excellent, particularly at night - it's a great night ride with the tunnels. Didn't bother with Mean Streak or Corkscrew. I agree that Mean Streak has MASSIVE potential with a RMC conversion.

yeah, I was just there this weekend and I was pleasantly surprised by how much good air I got on Millennium Force in the front car -- I recalled getting next to nothing on the island hills coming and going, and I got some great sustained air on those hills, and the little bunny hop by the station. It actually changed my view a bit on the ride, which I hadn't always been a big fan of.

As my (new) hometown park, I am excited to ride this coaster. I have not ridden a RMC-designed coaster, and am excited to see what the ride is like, especially given the insanity of Outlaw Run. That said, I can't honestly say that I was initially extremely thrilled with the design because I was hoping for a more air-time filled ride like El Toro at least a more substantial ride time. But, given the raves of Outlaw Run, maybe this one too will have such insane pacing and the new elements will feel as great as the elements on Outlaw Run, that the apparent lack of "traditional" airtime (other than first drop and the speed hill) will not be missed. In any event, it is amazingly cool that SFGam is getting two substantial coasters in such a short period of time, and this will be a great addition to the park.

Turn of the Century, Marriott's Great America, Santa Clara. Still remember the wicked air time on those two speed hills. And the corkscrew was painted red, which made it seem "extra scary" to this kid's eyes.

Willard's Whizzer at Marriott's Great America, Santa Clara. A great starter coaster, that still holds up (at SFGam in Gurnee).

I am staying in Hotel Breakers this weekend -- from the reviews, it sounds like it could really use a big upgrade inside . . . .

It was very pretty park and actually tried to keep to its themes. Obviously, things are clouded by nostalgia.

That's great - I love those old Marriott's Great America photos. The Santa Clara park was my hometown park as a kid growing up, and Willard's Whizzer was my first real coaster. Loved it -- still do (the one at SFGam). I remember when they had 4 (maybe 5?) trains going at once. I also miss the turn of the Century. (This photo is Gurnee, obviously. Funny to see how little development there was around both parks when the first open, esp. Santa Clara.)

Favorite Coasters (in no order): Vancouver Playland Coaster Thunderbolt (Kennywood) Superman/ Bizarro - SFNE Magnum XL-200 The original Willard's Whizzer and Turn of the Century at Marriott's Great America in Santa Clara (sentimental reasons) El Toro Big Bad Wolf Griffon Kumba

well, gotta go with El Toro (seems to qualify as a "wooden" coaster in this post). Incredibly good ride, with a monstrous first drop. Honorable mentions: I love the first drop on the Thunderbolt at Kennywood, right out of the station and into the ravine. I also love the initial drop into the dark tunnel on the Santa Cruz Giant Dipper - technically, that's the first drop.

Thing is, El Toro is plenty reliable. Not all Intamins are chock-full of downtime - that's mostly the hydraulic launches, because quite frankly no other company has invested itself in such an advanced piece of technology that's expected to run flawlessly hundreds of times a day. But I digress. If Voyage cost $8 million when it was built but tears itself apart year after year, somehow I think that $8 million very well may have turned in to more than the $12 price tag for El Toro. Toro's getting its lift motor replaced right now, but aside from that I can't think of any prolonged work that's been done on it - I'm not even sure that they've done any trackwork on it in what, seven years? Steer back on topic: RMC seems like it's going to prove to be the best of both worlds. You get the $10 million price tag, but you get a reliable ride (though I hear Outlaw Run has had its fair share of kinks, to be expected though) and you get a ride that doesn't need to be rebuilt every winter. RMC and GCI are the wooden Intamin and B&M, essentially. And I'm totally okay with that! yeah, I am not aware El Toro has any maintenance issues. To-date, no one has been able to give a satisfying answer as to why no other Intamin pre-fab "woodie" has been ordered for a North American park. Very odd. in terms of what is going in at SFGAM, as long as it has airtime hills, I would be thrilled with a RMC like Outlaw Run. I just "worry" that SFGam will go inversion mad, rather than focus on hills. In terms of 2015 or beyond, a make-over to American Eagle ala Rattler or Texas Giant would be a perfect choice. Hopefully the freak accident on the Texas Giant doesn't scare parks away.

How about a reliable ride engineered properly from the start? I kid... I kid... Intamin makes some amazing rides. I would like to see them do more wooden coasters here in the US... El Toro was a great ride. I wonder why more parks have not gone with them after the success of El Toro. long-time lurker, first time poster . . . . but I am with you. This is up there with one of the all-time coaster mysteries: WHY hasn't any other north american park followed up on the success of El Toro over the past 7 years? The ride has been a smash hit for a major park chain, Six Flags. It consistently tops the polls of enthusiasts, and, although i am not a regular visitor to SFGAd, I hear that the lines are consistently long and it's likely in the top 2 most popular rollercoasters at the park. So, on any conventional criteria, it's big a huge hit. On cost factors, for a coaster that size, it was $12M in 2006, so we are probably looking at $15M-ish today, right in the cost neighborhood of a B&M type coaster like X-Flight. Maintenance-wise, the design probably requires very little maintenance compared to a conventional wooden coaster. So, from a cost standpoint, it's in the budget range for most newer coasters at major parks. So, what gives? Why in the world wouldn't Cedar Faire, Six Flags or Busch Gardens think "this is a fairly cost-effective ride that the public loves?" Is it solely the perception that they think the public will only respond to what appears to be new technology (like a wing coaster) and the appearance of a wooden coaster is too old school / not sexy enough? Genuinely perplexing, from my standpoint. I am REALLY hoping the new coaster as SFGAm is an Intamin El Toro-ish ride. Nothing against RMC, but El Toro is almost a perfect ride. I think you put that in any park and it is a smash hit.