Manic Monte

And the fact that he's RIDDEN El Toro and STILL feels that way is amazing to me. Oh well, between his comments ,Six Flags "anti" big coaster stance and smaller parks filing for bankruptcy, where could we possibly see another one built here in the states? Then again, it's not like he's going to TELL you what he might be considering building anyway...

I'd go back to the opening dates for SFMM's Colossus and Revolution. I can't imagine it could get much better than that!

Yeah, that's old news... On the June 6th year to date conference call, he specified that SFMM will indeed, receive a Thomas area in 2008. Am I the only one who listened to that update?

Mark Shapiro has already confirmed that SFMM will get a Thomas The Tank area in 2008.

And I see exactly what you mean. It's funny that you mention the good old days of Ghostrider, because there was a similar situation. That ride was my #1 wooden coaster for 3 years before it went to crap. It didn't matter if it was day or night, Ghostrider would kick butt. But the thing is, why didn't I feel the same way about Texas Giant (before it went to crap)? Because it's about more than just night rides vs day rides. I preferred the layout of Ghostrider, the trains, the elements along *with* the night rides. Even though I felt Texas Giant had much stronger airtime, Ghostrider had more of what I wanted in a wooden coaster. This is how I feel about Voyage. Yes the night rides make a strong ride even stronger, but without everything else that Voyage offers for me, it wouldn't matter. If someone tells me a ride "just doesn't do it for them", all I can offer is my counter-opinion based on *my* rides. I can't step into someone elses body for them to experience the ride the way I did. That's why there are different opinions. Millennium Force offers the same kick butt ride no matter when I ride it. But I would still rank my favorite "unpredictable" wooden coasters above it. That's why to me, it makes more sense to compare El Toro against Balder (for which some people seem to think it comes up short against), and Voyage against other traditional woodie. But it's become obvious to me that people are going to compare these two whether I like it or not. So, there's my opinion.

No, I get what your saying. I absolutely think Voyage is a better night ride than day ride. How could it not be? Those tunnels are completely black at night, in the front row you can't see more than 2 feet in front of you and no matter how much you've memorized the layout during the day, you don't know where the heck you are at night. It's a completely new ball game. I admit it! Voyage is better at night. But the scary thing is, even during the day, it knocks the socks off of 99 percent of other coasters I've ridden, that 1 percent belonging to none other than El Toro. But that's just MY opinion. I'm not really trying to convince anyone else. Quite frankly, up until Holiwood nights, I had both coasters pretty equal. I felt both coasters had BIG strengths and minor weaknesses, but both were miles better than anything I'd ever ridden. But after the event I couldn't help but be honest. I liked Voyage better, and not just by a little bit. And just to clarify, both coaster blew me away the first time I rode them, which by the way, were morning rides. I've had a full year and several rides on both, to come to this conclusion. I'll be riding El Toro again in August. I can't wait!

But here's the thing. In my opinion, Voyage more than holds it's own against El Toro the during the day, then completely blows it away at night. So while Voyage may provide varying rides under normal circumstances, those normal circumstances are still better than any other wooden I've ridden, except El Toro, which I find pretty even. But at night, it knocks every other coaster experience I've had (wood or steel) out of the park. That's why it's my #1, because even so-so rides on it are amazing (when compared to everything else). I know others may disagree, but others have different ways they judge their #1's, and that's great. As for the hype, I could care less about that. If you look at this site, all the hype mostly surrounds El Toro, not Voyage. To me, both coasters completely live up to their hype, but that never means everyone is going to automatically love either. I know people who prefer Nitro to El Toro, and Raven to Voyage, so hype just gets people out to ride them and little else. But as I've said before, both coasters are terrific, and you can't lose with either. Everything after that is just personal taste. And although I too love Raven (it's running SO GREAT this year), it's way too short to rank any higher than #10 on my list. I'm also use to the forces it provides, so there aren't any surprises for me. Which brings me back to where we disagree. One reason I prefer wood to steel, is steel often feels too controlled to me, and once I'm use to it's forces, I'm bored (which is one reason Tatsu doesn't do much for me anymore and I'm not much of a B&M fan). Intamin is much more wild in their designs, so they thrill me for a longer period of time overall, but I just have a thing for the unpredictability of wood coasters, and Voyage takes that and runs off the charts with it. Day or night, Voyage is my #1 coaster. Edit: I should also make one other thing clear, I'm not "that guy". The one that ranks coasters out of loyalty to a particular park, coaster designing company or home park. I just love to ride coasters and have fun. So my opinions of my favorite rides come from the heart, not politics.

I don't understand why people are saying this. I have been on this ride 24 times, and all 24 of the times I have been on it were the best of any ride I have been on. Yeah I don't either. And then throwing in insults too, which completely undermines the opinion. Honestly, like Robb says, I can't take anyone's opinion seriously until they've actually ridden the coaster in question.

And that's also what I like about Voyage over El Toro. I like the unpredictability of Voyage over the more "controlled" El Toro. El Toro does give a predictable ride every time, which is excellent, much like a steel coaster. but if were talking wood, I prefer more of an out of control, manic feeling. Prime conditions or not, it's still about personal tastes, and that can't be converted into fact. I'm just happy that I have actually ridden both, before drawing my conclusion. There are plenty of people that prefer ET, but I'm not one of them.

^ I agree. I think Flashback will get the same treatment that Windjammer did a few years ago. The coaster is old, rusted and pretty un-ridable. Not worth the money it would take to move, paint and refurbish it. I still believe the ride was kept around so long for the coaster count anyway. Once Shapiro nixed that idea, Flashback became expendable. I'd rather they spend that extra money to fix up Colossus. It's the only wooden coaster they have at this point.

What would be the point now? Shapiro isn't going to ok anymore large, expensive rides.

Thanks for the video! I think the ride looks fun! I seriously need to get to Spain, and not just for the ride. If that video is any indication, the boys over there are hot!

Now your just not making any sense all. Parks that put in coasters that are barely taller? You could be talking about half the parks in the country. LOL I'm starting to get the feeling that in your own nice little way, your trying to start up that tired old CP vs SFMM debate. It's lame, and no matter how you try and disguise it, it's still lame. We get that you don't like SFMM, and most of us already know that many parks are better. You aren't telling us anything we don't already know

Um... I'm well aware of what first quarter numbers mean. Not really the point I was making (why do people always quote things from posts out of their context?). It was a sarcastic remark in response to the post before it suggesting that I hadn't heard or read anything about SFMM possibly closing. In any event, the park isn't closing(even though some really want it to), some positive changes are being made, larger improvements may take several years, but my last 2 visits have been a VAST improvement over the last 6 years. Still, there's no question that there is a LONG way to go.

I'm fully aware that the "new CEO in his new position" almost gave up on SFMM. The place was a mess when he got there, so I didn't blame him. But he soon learned that it would have been a grave mistake to give up all that potential revenue, and that "fixing" the park's many problems would bring the company far more revenue than it was worth losing. Did YOU hear the last conference call? The one where Shapiro stated that the park is up this year? And that the first quarter profit is mostly from SFMM? I'vesaid all along that fixing the problem is really better than giving up, and it looks like I was right. I could care less that many people do not care for the place. I was one of those people for a long time. But I never thought that you just give up because you've failed in the past. That's a horrible message. As for as taking notes, I personally like the fact that Shapiro is taking notes from parks overseas, which generally are much better and creatively run that the parks here in the states.

Yeah, that's the answer. Just give up and take your toys elsewhere, rather than investing the time and money to fix up the place. Good thing you're NOT CEO of Six Flags. Every time things got tough you'd just sell everything and go elsewhere. You may not like SFMM (and who could blame you), but doesn't it make MORE sense to fix the problems and not cop out to the "it's a lost cause" or "just forget it" attitude that's so prevalent in our society?

Probably not quite 9 million, but certainly enough to qualify as one of those "no more Goliath's" steel coasters that Shapiro would probably fire someone at the mere suggestion of. It's too bad to, because California is nearly devoid of any significant airtime, and it looks like it will stay that way...forever.

As much as i would love to see this happening, i think with Shapiro in charge that chance would be 0% Even if Burke were still in charge, the chances of an El Toro type ride in Southern California would be 0%. A ride like that would cost more than Tatsu with all the extra wood and reinforcements needed for earthquake safety measures.

The coasters at Holiday World are one thing. They also have an awesome, awesome water park, cheap food prices (and GOOD food), free sodas, free sunscreen, free parking and my goodness, a funnel cake for $2.50, wtf. SFOG is one of the better SF parks, so I certainly wouldn't discourage that visit either.

Awwww... Beautiful pictures Matt! I wish I could have gone with you. I really miss my old homepark, and the weekly stop at In And Out on the way home. I hope to see you at SFMM or Knott's soon. Good to hear from you.

The Voyage El Toro Thunderhead Goliath (SFOG) Tatsu Tremors Nitro Fire Dragon Volcano:BC X

No you shouldn't. But if "by accident" or by design I do, it does affect my rankings. El Toro blew me away my first ride. Then I had to wait 3 hours to ride it again, and the line was to long to get to it a third time. Now compare that to all night rides on Voyage in pitch blackness. The conditions were not even close. It may sound unfair, but that helped form my opinion. Not to mention Voyage is just MY kind of ride. It's like someone finally designed a coaster just for me! Endless, out of control madness! Certainly not for the faint of heart, but for me, the best coaster ever created. And now I've had two seasons to form that opinion.

You know, comparing these two rides makes perfect sense, but ultimately I'm not going to fight about it because SO much goes into what makes a coaster #1 for you. And it's not even close to the same for everyone. Most people who visit Holiday World aren't going to ride Voyage in it's prime condition, at night in total darkness. On the other hand, how many people are actually going to get to marathon on El Toro? I was lucky to get two rides on it. So in the end it's about personal preferences. Sometimes we want to try convince everyone that they should love a coaster just because you think it's #1 and people get very defensive. I think that's the silliest, most immature part of this hobby.

yeah, the brake has never slowed the train much at all. As for El Toro, I know your a home fan and all, but El Toro still sits at #2 which still makes it a GREAT coaster. But for my tastes, Voyage trumps it in almost every way. El Toro is a bit too short and does seem to lose quite a bit a speed heading into the twister section. Voyage just does not stop! And Saturday, it ripped apart every coaster experience I have EVER had.

I'll tell you what. After this past weekend riding Voyage several times in dark, it has solidified it's place as my #1, by a long shot. El Toro firmly drops to #2 (nothing wrong with that). As everyone at Holiwood Nights can attest, this ride blew me away beyond words! It was downright scary. No other coaster on the face of this earth does what Voyage does. It IS aggressive, but leaves you absolutely wanting nothing more at it's end, it is coaster nirvana. It was a nonstop assault on every coaster sense that I have, and that triple down in complete darkness is the most incredible element I have ever experienced. Where as El Toro peters out in is final third, Voyage has enough energy to continue out into the parking lot and back. Thankfully, the ride ends with the same bang it began with, leaving my friends and I absolutely STUNNED, and talking about it all weekend.