peteb

Attracting families, which does not exclude attracting teens, makes good business sense; teens by themselves don't have money to spend that families do. Parks that cater to families, like Hersheypark, BGW, Knoebels, Disney, in the end are nicer parks for everyone. Just think what SFGADV could have done and how many quality rides and park improvements they could have put in for what they spent on Kingda Ka and how that would have improved the park long term. Fix the park and people will come, long after Kingda Ka's buzz has faded or the thing falls apart.

I think suspended and half pipe coasters are great and I bet these would both be lots of fun, copies or not, but I have no hope that one of these rides will show up at my home park SFGADV any time soon with SF still in the tallest, fastest, steepest, longest, greatest whatever mode. Forbid they should put in something that's just fun and doesn't break any records. I also think the Big Air ride would be cool spinning while moving, but looking at the animation it doesn't look like they're thinking that way by the lack of clearance in the towers and loading platform.

I think a faithful reproduction of a Flying Turns would make a great ride, but then again the original designers didn't have to contend with lawyers, insurance companies and safety regulations that have the potential to kill a thrilling ride. I have faith however that whatever Knoebels creates, it will be a great addition to the park and I'll just sit back and enjoy the ride.

All of these Premier launched coasters had a pretty rough start but I think are all consistently good rides with the new trains. I can't imagine throwing them out; these parks spent an awful lot of money on them and they work just fine these days. I've ridden FoF and Batman and Robin the Chiller before and after new trains, and they are completely different rides. If they had only started off this way, we'd probably see a lot more of them.

I agree that they're pretty ugly, especially those side guards that look inspired by a tilt-a-whirl car, but I imagine they're there to keep you from sticking your arms out and touching the track. Let's hope they at least reduce some head banging.

That nose kinda reminds me of an anteater; I think I'd tell 'em to leave it off too. What else is interesting are the new wheel assemblies that look like they have individual pivots connected to each other with a tie rod. I wonder if these run a lot smoother than the old Arrow or Vekoma trains.

Here's a picture from Vekoma's website of the MK1211 trains.

If Powder Keg is any indication of what S&S/Arrow is capable of these days, it's probably fair to say that the modern Arrow is really a departure from the Arrow of old. I doubt they use the Ron Toomer bent welding wire approach to design anymore. Does anyone know if the Powder Keg trains are a carryover Arrow design, a recent S&S/Arrow creation post acquisition, or other?

I've never quite understood all the Vekoma and especially Arrow bashing, since there are an awful lot of good rides by both companies that are still running safely and reliably, some being built over 30 years ago. I've always loved the Arrow suspended coasters; nothing rough about these and probably one of the best designs that never reached it's full potential. And what about Loch Ness Monster, PKI Vortex, Magnum, Excalibur, Valleyfair Mad Mouse, all the various mine trains; they're all pretty good rides still. Sure, some of the Arrow mega loopers are a bit rough by today's standards, but then again most were built before 1994; coaster design has changed a bit since then. As far as Vekoma, I've been on a few Boomerangs lately with new and refurbished trains and been surprised how much better they are; I had more headbanging on Storm Runner at Hersheypark then on Sidewinder this past summer.

A little off topic, but Screamscape says Kobe Portopialand is closing so that looks like another two Schwartzkopfs could be lost. I rode King Kobra at PKD (old loop style, weight drop) back in 1981 and was just overwhelmed by the power and smoothness of this ride. Unfortunately I don't think management at most parks care about the historical significance or amazing quality of these rides; they're like used cars, throw em out and get a new one. We need someone like Dick Knoebel to pick up a few Schwartzkopfs; he'd preserve them for us.

Sooper Dooper Looper at Hersheypark used to be a shade of white when new and now has this drab blue/ rusty track / black support scheme. I think it should go back to it's original color.

The pipeline prototype did not have a lift hill; the train was lifted into place on a removable track section which. The downward end section was probably there to attach to this. This was a prototype so it is really pointless to criticize and bash it; it's a test bed for ideas good and bad not a finished product.

There was a coaster show I saw back in the 90's that aired on public TV (maybe WGBH Boston)that had a segment on the design of this ride with interviews with Ron Toomer, Dal Freeman as well as an on ride POV of the prototype. It certainly looked pretty interesting at the time. The trains had a dual lap/horsecollar restraint system as well as these pop up windows that kept you from sticking your hands out and touching the rails which was pointed out in the show that forced Arrow to put a small rear canopy on the car. The POV shows the train banging around pretty well in the tracks and I remember watching the off ride slo-mo where you can see the wheel assembly shuffling back and forth on the rails. In the show they describe this ride as a concept Arrow was exploring and it was pretty apparent that there were a lot of technical obstacles. The most unfortunate thing about this ride is it left Arrow without a new product and the the old designs were no longer competitive against B&M and Intamin. Combine these factors with the problems with Drachen Fire at the same time and it's easy to see why Arrow fell out of favor. I had recorded this show on VHS; I'll see if I can dig it up.

I agree about the slowness of the ride; I never understood why Arrow always loved those mid course brake runs that absolutely stop the train. Drachen Fire had one after that cobra element, then the train just seemed to barely make it through the rest. GASM at SFGADV does the same thing after the 3rd loop; stop the train and go slow throught the last inversions. Drachen Fire had a great location, even if it was hard to find. I'm surprised as well that nothing has gone in it's place. I'd take a GCI with LED lights along the train!

I can't imagine there is a lot of love between S&S/Arrow and SFMM with all the legal battling that went on over X so it seems a little odd that they would be testing new hardware cooperatively. But then again if this is true and design improvements are out there what's good for the Fuji Q 4D could be good for X.

Drachen Fire was a good ride that certainly didn't deserve to be torn down; there are rougher coasters out there that are still standing, but I believe BGW had higher expectations. This ride had a lot of hype, but compared to the new things B&M was coming up with, it's level of refinement seemed stuck in the 70's . The "new" cars were cramped even compared to the older Arrow cars and a lot of the track layout just seemed wrong. Even so, it was fun, a little rough and looked cool if you knew how to find it.

The survey crew earned their money on this one. I love that mess of supports.

I had lost interest in bumper cars due modern, lightweight, slow, lap bar laden bumper cars that you find in many parks. The Lusse Auto Skooters at Knoebels reminded me what bumper cars are supposed to be like; hard hitten sparks flying smelly ozone producing cars. Sometimes older is way better.

I can't stand any ride that holds you upside down until your head feels like it will explode, like looping starships and Chance inverters. I can't imagine the S&S screaming squirrels are much fun for the same reason.

Best Endings: PHOENIX- ejected out of your seat while flying into the turn back to the station; this ride feels like it could run another 1000 feet of track easily. TOP GUN, PKI (Arrow Suspended)- Huge swing on the last turn into the brakes, feels past horizontal. Worst Endings: SKULL MOUNTAIN- SFGADV- I can't stand coasters where you are slowly transported back to the station with friction drives. STORM RUNNER- Head bang right, head bang left, slow decline back to the station.

Six Flags Great Adventure; NITRO !

I think all the hate for Rolling Thunder is only of a function of the condition it's been allowed to slide into; it was a great ride for many years. It had speed, airtime, made that loud noise you could hear throughout the park, and was even good run backwards. It ran pretty well this past summer and hopefully it will get the rework it needs. That's in interesting thing about woodies; it's possible to have an 'I don't get it " ride on any of them due to maintenance, weather, or other factors that make these things tempermental. I had one on Phoenix this past summer on an early run on a "cold" train, but 10 hours later the ejection seats were back in operation.

I thought I liked Storm Runner back in 2004, but when I rode it August 2005 I just couldn't believe how rough this thing was. Every change in direction was accompanied by a head slam into the restraints. We rode both trains, different times of day and the same. Lots of people getting off holding their heads. What I just don't get is what happened in only one year.

Anyone know what happened to the Themeparkbrochures website? Used to be a cool website with old park maps, but now themeparkbrochures.com seems to be a vacation planning site.

So much design and testing goes into these rides before construction even starts that it's hard to believe there is much that hasn't been characterized. I'm sure all engineers involved are on top of it; it's not like Disney to just throw something up see what happens when you start it up.