peteb

How about when people are bored in line and decide "Hey, let's try to break something" like the line queue fences. Superman Ultimate Flight at SFGADV has the queue line bordered by an aluminum fence with plastic end caps at the ends of the ballusters; someone discovered that you could easily pry these out so before you know it every idiot in line is looking for caps to pull out and throw around. (they're all gone now) And they also discovered if you jump on these fences they bounce up and down, bend, then ultimately break! Pure genius.

How about restraints as icky as a pay phone? (SFGADV)

I know some people don't mind, but I've seen a lot of times at SFGADV where riders are truly upset by it compounded by taunting they receive by knuckleheads in the gallery; it gets ugly at times. These things often just promote uncivil behavior. It would be nice if the riders could inhibit the system, or choose to enable it. This wouldn't be hard.

People who think it's funny to stand at the water harassment cannons with a roll of quarters soaking people they don't even know. I know many people who won't get on flumes anymore (especially at SFGADV near my home) due to this. There are minimal water quality standards on most flumes; at SFGADV they draw the smelly water from stagnant ponds, not exactly what you want dumped on your head. It's accepted to get soaked by the ride, you understand that's what happens when you get on. But then to have a bucket load of water dumped on your head after the ride is over (this is the way it works on both flumes at SFGADV, just before you go back into the turntable) while SF makes money off it is just wrong. If you dumped a bucket of stagnant water on a little kid walking down a midway you would get taken away in handcuffs.

Lightning Loops at SFGADV in 1978 followed by King Cobra at PKD; two completely different experiences and both awesome. Nothing like the shaking platform and gut wrenching drop on LL and the smooth acceleration of KK; both were great rides for their day. (would still be great today if they existed)

Apparently BBW was to be a Schwartzkopf. Arrow took over and the trains/track are their design. One thing I'll never understand is how Arrow suspended track is always of a smooth, flowing design without all the rough transitions you find on their standard looping models. It's as if someone completely different in the company was responsible for this design. Who knows why they never improved their sit down coaster design that dated back to the 70's when it was clear that all their competitors were way ahead.

Most visitors didn't know Drachen Fire was even in the park unless they took the train ride which ran next to it, otherwise it was almost invisible. The ride really wasn't as bad as some say, it's just that better coasters were being built and this one wasn't even as good as Loch Ness Monster which Arrow built 14 years before.

Drachen Fire was good looking looking ride on paper, in photos, and in person; that's probably why there's interest in what happened to this ride. The curves, turns and entrances into the loops were just not smooth. Every transition into the next element was abrupt. It just felt like a bunch of loops with poorly designed connectors in between that would just jerk you into alignment for the next element. There was so much of this ride that needed reprofiling to smooth out it was just cheaper to tear it down and put the money elsewhere. It would be interesting to find out what happened between Arrow and BGW on this one; who paid for the changes, was there ever a lawsuit, etc. Arrow had a pretty good relationship with BGW before Drachen Fire but I doubt they'll ever do business with them again. I think this coaster put a lot of nails in Arrow's coffin.

Maybe when the thrill of KK has worn off, SFGADV could add a few thousand feet of track and make it a full circuit coaster, why throw away all that energy!

I had ditched my season pass years ago, but the way SFGADV has been improving lately coupled with the new coasters, I think I'm back in next year. El Toro is pretty exciting; it has the potential to be as significant a coaster as Batman the Ride was a back in 1993.

Phoenix - Crazy airtime and speed that just keeps going until you hit the brakes; this ride seems to defy physics. Feels like it could keep going a few thousand more feet of track. Unbelievable at night. Nitro- You would fly away if the restraint opened up during the ride. Great dark out and back ride into the woods at night.

If recent B&M's seem to be lacking, is it because the parks are asking for safe bet coasters? Has there been a change in design philosophy at B&M, or are the rides not performing as anticipated. I think only Walter and Claude could answer this.

I agree. That's probably what's changed most in coaster design and B&M is better at it than anyone; they give the parks exactly what they want. They guarantee the smoothness of their rides because they can. I'm sure Arrow never intended their coasters to be headbangers, they just didn't engineer their rides to the same level as B&M. Most people have no idea what it takes to engineer and fabricate these rides so it's easy to take B&M's work for granted.

Maybe B&M is becoming a victim of their own success; their coasters have become so familiar that it's hard to get excited about newer versions of the the same old thing. They seem to understand the dynamics of their rides so well, maybe they need to go and engineer some forces back in to their rides. It's the inverse Arrow Dynamics problem; Arrow kept building bigger versions of the same old ride that kept getting rougher until everyone had enough. You'd hate to see B&M fall out of favor because their rides are too smooth and everyone's yawning! (I don't think this will happen, they're too good a company, I doubt they're sitting back with nothing new on the drawing board) What is the rattling being refered to on the floorless coasters? Is it an audible rattle or a track shuffle type of rattle? I've been on Medusa 20+ times and it's pretty smooth and quiet, with a tiny bit of track shuffle which varies with temperature/position on the train.

Anyone know if the bridge to Medusa will be kept; I couldn't see it in the computer renderings. I've heard conflicting reports about it being removed. Hopefully it stays, it will be a great vantage point to see several coasters in action.

I'm sure it's not impossible. Intamin's track is functionally not different than old school track except for it's laminated construction and precision factory milling. This actually could make it difficult to retrofit due to the hand crafted nature of wood coasters ; the design profile and real profile over time are probably different. Take a close look at some older wood coasters and you see funky track everywhere, but it works. Intamin's track system on an old structure may be too precise and intolerant to structural deviations perhaps to the point where Intamin would not even consider to put their track on a structure that is not engineered to their standards.

I have no idea why they took this ride out; it was probably the best of the new flats. (not many of them left) I'm sure Chaos will be removed as well next. Any idea why they removed the Frisbee, Double Inverter, and the Huss Jump? It's not as though they didn't have the room.

Arrow suspended coasters I feel never reached their full design potential and were certainly forgotten when inverts came out. The swinging cars provide forces that are unique and much different than inverts. It would be nice to see a modern version of one of these.

Good point. Intamin just made it easier to take apart a wood coaster and send it to another park! Hopefully Six Flags has no intention of creating the "travelling wooden coaster" category.

I remember when Phoenix was being re-assembled at Knoebels looking at the specs ( 72 foot first drop? 3200 feet of track? 45mph max ? big deal) and not being impressed. I'll never judge a coaster by the specs again.

Looks like an excellent coaster, but what a contrast in ride it will be next to Rolling Thunder. RT seems to be getting some attention these days, but I hope part of the refurb of this area of the park will include making RT the coaster it once was. The SFGADV site says "Monstrous Coaster and New Kids Section" . This happened with Kingda Ka; huge coaster with a bunch of kiddie rides. I just wish GADV would have a more balanced approach in their expansions. This park has lost way too many flat rides; besides the coasters there just isn't much that's interesting in this park.

Riding Batman and Robin The Chiller at SFGADV felt like getting punched in the head by a heavyweight before they removed the shoulder restraints. The only ride I've ever been on where you would hit your head on a straight section of track, at the end of the launch when the train would catch up to the wave sent down the track. I've seen people in tears getting off that ride. However, since the trains were reworked with the new lap/leg restraints, it's a completely different ride and not rough at all. I've been on Outer Limits at PKI with the old restraints and got beat up as well; I wonder how it rides with the new trains.

I think Intamin's wood coasters will take off if SFGADV's new coaster is successful. The new track technology should save the parks money in maintenance and re-tracking in the long run. And look what happened when B&M came on the scene with smooth running steel coasters. You could see one of these pop up in every Six Flags park. You have to wonder what the guys at GCI and Gravity Group are up to; they're coasters are pretty much built by hand, but perhaps they are starting to incorporate more sophisticated fabrication methods as well. I'd hate to see them caught in the same position as Arrow when new coaster technology blew them out of the market.

Good point about the shoulder straps really being a secondary restraint; it's the lap bar and the shape of the seat that are primarily responsible for holding you in. The problem many have with the additional restraint is the head banging they create, especially smaller riders. When you see half the people getting off Storm Runner holding they're heads due to a restraint that does not fit they're body size properly, more engineering work needs to be done. I'm sure Intamin probably realizes this restraint system is a compromise to create additional rider safety.

The Intamin OTSR's are not well designed; probably a poorly thought out reaction to the SROS accident The thin profile with hard padding karate chop your head and neck. Storm Runner at Hershey uses these which don't kill the air time but really beat you up in the inversions unless you can manage to ride with your upper body pushed forward in the restraint; this way only your arms get beat, not your head. For most people the OTSR is so far away from your body that it is essentially useless. It would be nice to see a soft restraint, similar to those used on flyers or the Arrow butterfly retraints if the parks really feel these things are necessary. You would think Intamin would have learned from all the Arrow/Vekoma head banging we've all endured over the years. Even Premier figured out how to get rid of them in their launched coasters with no accidents since.