Shavethewhales

It's a pretty safe bet that Darien will go to HFEC. There just aren't any other legit buyers unless Premier goes out on a limb and out-bids them somehow. Frontier City will go to Premier, which will be tremendous for both the park and the company. Both of these parks have had some spurts of significant improvement under the new managing companies, but they need to cut the cords with CNL quick before they suffocate again under the current capital ex. freeze. Both parks need some solid attraction investments to get over the hump, but they're so close otherwise.

^That quote is from screamscape (always best to source the info). Here's a full article about the situation, but it you have to register (for free) to read it: http://www.investmentnews.com/article/20140911/FREE/140919984/-2-7b-nontraded-reit-plans-sale-or-listing Here's CNL's latest quarterly earnings as well: http://www.cnllifestylereit.com/core/fileparse.php/472/urlt/CLP-Announces-Second-Quarter-2014-Results.pdf Doesn't sound like their portfolio is panning out, but their attractions are doing pretty well. They bought too many golf courses and ski resorts. The golf courses are on a downward trend nationally, and ski resorts struggle during the off-season. It sounds like they're in more of a hurry to get rid of the golf courses first thing, there's no mention yet of selling the parks. I hope Premier scoops up Frontier City and HFEC gets DL though. Here's a quote from the SEC filing (http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1261159/000119312514336782/d786049dex991.htm):

Surprisingly no one seems to be paying much attention to the construction on this project, even though it's pretty major for the park. I think we've gotten too spoiled with all these other parks setting up webcams and posting their own construction photos and blogs. I live just far enough away that I can't really get out there casually for a construction update. Maybe for future projects though when I've got more expendable income and have a few more weekends to blow. Midwestinfoguide has some fairly recent photos and he posts updates every once in awhile. In any case there will be a flood of construction photos in about three weeks when ACE goes on a construction tour for Coaster Christmas.

I'm blown away. I love it when a park goes all out on a cool theme, and this has a great back story. Efteling is at the top of my list for whenever I make it back overseas for a park trip.

Huh, so the boardwalk area is just some new concrete and the S&S tower? I thought there was more to it than that. Rowdy's Ridge looks a little more sparse than I thought it was as well. Probably would have been bigger if they were outright HFEC additions, like the Grand Expo at SDC and County Fair at DW. I'm sure CNL has been keeping the capital expenditure budgets small.

I agree that the park is setup to get something big in 2016. Something is either going to happen to Timber Wolf or something will take it's place. I think it's odd how no one else is talking about how insanely rough that ride has become. We complain about a lot of rough rides on this forum, but nothing I've ever ridden has come close to being so ridiculously shaky as this thing. Mean Streak and CGA's Grizzly have nothing on this ride in terms of roughness. It's almost dangerous.

My thoughts exactly. The issue of Chinese rip-offs in all industries is a huge discussion that I'll try to abstain from getting too far into here, but let me just say that at the end of the day there's simply no justification for it. A lot of Chinese industry would be in a better place by now if they had focused on finding their own ways to meet needs rather than just copying westerners. I mean, I wouldn't even be upset about it if they just came up with their own layouts and styling. At least have the grace to make a few adjustments so it's technically a new design. All of these rides are straight up thoughtless photocopies. I think they are naive if they think this attitude will someday lead to them producing good designs of their own in the future. They care more about making it look like a western product than building something that actually performs.

Another civil engineer checking in here, and out of all the stupid GP comments I've seen and ignored over the past decade or so this one actually gets my jimmies rustled. Even stepping aside from the ridiculousness of his supposed complaint, an actual civil engineer doesn't just throw around accusations like that. Here's a piece of the ASCE code of ethics that was covered each year I was in school: http://www.asce.org/Ethics/Code-of-Ethics/ Shotty repair welds my ass. The inspections performed on this type of equipment are no joke. Amusement rides in this country are generally more safe than some of our basic infrastructure. The "restraint came open" statement happens on literally every ride almost every day. Obviously untrue as virtually all restraints are bolted shut, though they may have a slight play depending on the model. I think people use it as an excuse when they get scared on rides and don't want to go on anymore but also don't want to look like a giant puss. Don't even get me started about the "numerous near fatalities" line, that's just pure libel. I'll bet this guy is some freshmen who's going to drop the program after he fails physics.

No DarienLaker, I don't think the park is going to end up in the hands of Cedar Fair or whoever the heck Terry is. It is apparent that a sale is emminent, and CNL has HFEC's balls in a vise here. Their whole business is investing in properties to get the maximum ROI, and they know HFE wants this property and is in the best position to buy it, and the longer HFEC waits the more potential they loose. You know they are asking an arm and a leg for the park and there must be some drama going on behind the scenes. HFEC is Darien Lake's best hope. The park would be so much better under their sole ownership. Lake Monster, new theming, and much better operations are just the tip of the ice berg. If the deal falls through the place will be locked in mediocrity forever. Let's hope they figure it out soon.

There are different interpretations of "rough", and body size certainly makes a difference when riding an intense coaster in any case. I can understand anyone under 110 lbs having a tough time keeping up with OR. It wears me out after a few rides and I'm about 180. It's not rough in the traditional sense from poor tracking or anything, it's just simply forceful in ways that you wouldn't expect from anything but an RMC. I reserve the word "rough" for rides like Timber Wolf, where the train acts like it's having a seizure all the way through the course. OR is just "intense".

Someone speaks up about moving OzCat to SDC at least once every three months. I can't even bring myself to go through the impracticalities of it anymore. I'm still holding out hope that SDC will get a new GCII someday soon influenced by the best parts of OzCat's layout. I'm glad to hear that SDC has been able to add some new Fluffy Bunnies without being lame about it like some other parks. Sounds like a reasonable cost to benefit scheme that won't leave a sour taste in visitors mouths. Hopefully they don't progressively push the new lockers in coming years though. I like the customer service-oriented feel that comes with the way the attendants handle the on-ride cubbies. It's another thing that makes SDC a high-class park. In other news, Coaster Christmas is coming up! Check it out: http://www.ace18.org/coasterchristmas/default.asp

Had a great day at WOF yesterday. I've never really given this park enough credit, it really is well put together and has a great selection of rides and stuff to do. I got in a ton of rides on pretty much everything and went through several haunts even though it was a fairly busy day. Like CaliforniaPinto advised earlier, the crowds were pretty-light until about 4pm when the Haunt-focused crowd started to set in. After that there were some fairly large lines, but they fluctuate with time. Everyone wants to get their rides in from about 4pm till the start of Haunt, then the lines for the haunts go crazy but the lines for the rides start to go down. The lines for Haunt are pretty much insane for the first few hours, but by 11pm they really started to go down, and by midnight they were very manageable, though there were still some good crowds for them. Anyway, as far as my reactions to the coasters go: I found Mamba to be much better than I expected. I love a good out and back hyper coaster, and this one has a great setup of big drops, a nice helix with headchoppers, and awesome airtime filled bunnyhops. Only thing it's missing is a tunnel to make it perfect. Boomerang was great. This was actually my first standard boomerang, and I wasn't expecting it to be much good based on the reports about them that I've been reading for the past decade. I don't know if this one is just particularly well maintained or what, but it was smooth and really enjoyable. You've got to hand it to the boomerang design, it really is was an ingenious innovation that packs the best parts of a looping coaster into a tiny area. Patriot was good, but I wasn't exactly blown away by it. For some reason Patriot doesn't feel like a big coaster even though it's got a 123ft drop. It's a good quality ride for sure, but it seems like it doesn't really reach it's full potential or something. Timber Wolf was just staggeringly horrible. It's would be hillarious watching the car in front of you bounce up and down and side to side and seeing everyone's heads wobble back and forth... if the same thing wasn't happening even more violently to your car! I'm surprised the train can make it back to the station with all the energy it looses bouncing around. I rode it in the front seat once and that was almost tolerable save for the jackhammering, but the farther back you go the worse it gets. I'm actually surprised this ride is still allowed to operate. Genuinely surprised. It's a lawsuit waiting to happen. I rode Prowler a couple of times first thing when I got to the park, and then a couple of times around midnight. When I rode it during the day I thought it was just 'OK', I watched this thing be built five years ago and remembered all the rave reviews, so I was a little let down since it was rattling somewhat badly. However, when I went back to ride it at night, it was a whole different beast. It seems like it smooths out and gets faster over the course of the day somehow, and riding it in the dark is fantastic. It could use a little track work, but it's still got what it takes to be a fantastic wooden coaster. Cyclone Sam's was awesome. I didn't even know what this ride was when I got in line, and I was pleasantly surprised. Definitely a must ride on every trip to WOF. Also rode the train, enterprise, detonator and the spinning coaster and they were all pretty good. This was my first time to experience a serious Halloween event at any park as well. I knew the parks always made a big deal about it, but I didn't know how much there was too it. I really liked the scare actors and spook zones all over the park. The Haunts were cool too, but the lines were just insane. Most of them were well over an hour, and the haunt passes really noticeably slow the lines down which makes everyone in the normal lines grouchy. I waited something like an hour and a half for Asylum, and while I wouldn't wait that long again for any haunt, it was a good one. I also did the slaughterhouse themed one and the london themed one. It was all pretty fun, but there's only so many times people can make sudden noises around you until you start to become immune. I did get one good scare in one of the haunts when someone came out of no where and got right in my face. I definitely advise staying as long as possible. Like I said, I wouldn't want to wait an hour and half for a haunt again, nor do I want to pay another $55 to get a pass for something I've already paid for once, so I recommend just waiting the crowds out. Half the crowds leave by 11:30, so the haunts will only have waits of around half an hour or less (from what I could tell). Stick to the rides and the scare zones for the first couple of hours and then start with the less popular haunts first.

I'd also like to know what type of waits are we really talking about here. I ended up shifting my plans to be there this weekend also, but if lines for all the coasters are going to be over and hour long all night I might reconsider. I was hoping since it was still September things wouldn't be too crazy yet.

Those sound like good days to go. The weather will be nice, so there will be some people there, but this time of year generally brings out the older crowd and locals who focus somewhat more on the shows and festival offerings. Shouldn't have any trouble with crowds anywhere, especially the rides. OR is still going to be the most crowded ride though, which could mean waits of up to 30mins, but that's the worst I would expect to encounter and everything else will be pretty short. You can get discounted 2-day tickets and pretty much any hotel or ticket place in Branson. You don't even have to stay in a given hotel for them to sell you the passes (they get a cut either way). Deer Run Hotel sells these and is located just beyond the park entrance road.

This is a very interesting poll because most of the voters don't actually ride. It's basically a poll of what rides and parks have the best PR. You'll notice SDC is only mentioned for OR, but it's staff friendliness and food probably edge out DW based on reports from this year from those who have experienced both parks. Of course both parks are extremely similar, but DW is obviously closer to most of these pollers, so it's always going to get the nod even if SDC is substantially better in a given year. In the same manner, all other parks that are closer to the pollers and get more press are rated higher. I mean, no one who is actively watching and riding is going to vote MF #1 right now. It just shows how marketing controls this industry.

^They already have two coasters with 150+ ft drops. They have plenty of land to run a hyper coaster out across, but like all SDC coasters, it would have to be done carefully and thoughtfully to avoid the bat habitats, train ride, and scenic areas of the park. They can go out beyond the maintenance area pretty easy whenever they need space for the next huge coaster. What I would really like is if they took the Mystery Mine concept, but used a B&M dive machine instead, sort of like what Efteling is apparently doing. Mystery Mine really knocked us all off our feet when it was announced in 2006. It was such a crazy, huge, ambitious project for HFEC at the time, and really showed what this chain is capable of doing theming wise. It's been really unfortunate to hear that the PTB have apparently been viewing it as almost a failure from the ROI standpoint.

The tower design does look kind of bizzare, and the placement may be unfortunate, but nether-the-less this is probably the most interesting coaster project of 2015. I'm actually thinking about putting Lagoon on my schedule for 2016 even though there's literally nothing around it. I guess I could lump it into a yellowstone trip? I feel like the renderings don't do a good job of actually showing the track layout. Judging from the looks of the theming concept pieces, there's a whole other section of track away from the tower we aren't seeing yet.

We're blaming it on the "lemon chill" guy now? What happened to the mouthy dip-n-dots guys? I can buy Silverstreak and Mantis Inferno, but renaming WT to "The King" is definitely a stretch. Who knows though, I'm not one to rule anything out anymore, and the NBA tie-in would be interesting. Mantis Inferno is legitimately an awesome name though, even if it doesn't make ANY sense.

Put me in the crowd that thinks CP will reconfigure and retheme Mantis rather than ship it off for something new. Literally every time I've ridden Mantis I've thought "Well that was OK, but it would be SO much better as a floorless". It just makes sense, and it would be a cost-effective solution. Most of the GP wouldn't know it wasn't even a new coaster, and those that did would find it pretty rad. I rarely think about Mantis when I think of CP. Standup coasters are uncomfortable enough that they are "meh" rides even with great layouts. A solid floorless coaster, on the other hand, is a nice addition to a spectacular lineup.

To me it seemed like River Blast was a replacement for Splash Harbor, which closed right as River Blast was supposed to open. Unfortunately, while River Blast is a beautiful attraction, it doesn't really recapture the magic that was Splash Harbor. It just simply isn't as engaging or popular as Splash Harbor was, but SDC didn't really like having a "water park" attraction in the park, and there were some issues with people wearing swimwear throughout the park among other random issues. Nothing really replaced the Waterboggan, it was just taken out suddenly at the end of the 2010 season. I've heard some scattered stories which I think I may have posted long ago on this thread that allude to some potential safety issues stemming from the 2003 remake of the original Wilderness Waterboggin into the wilder Waterworks Waterboggin. From what I remember, it had OK capacity, but the ride was very popular and the line was rather awkward due to the issue of having to weigh people. They are indeed finally making use of a little of the old Waterboggin space, but the majority of the land the ride used to occupy is still empty, and they're apparently just going to leave the old tower for some sort of background purpose (possibly communications equipment?)

How crazy is WOF on Saturdays during Haunt? I'm looking at going on Oct. 4, and plan to be in the park by noon. I know the park will be open until 1am, but how packed out will is it usually? I've never been to a CF Haunt event, so I'm not completely sure what to expect.

Oh there's still room for criticism for sure. I'm sure the park-model versions from Larson will be better though. Easy, they'll take the cheap route like they always do: charge huge fees for parking, in-park advertising barfed all over the place, charge for lockers and other little things that are normally free or really cheap, have slow operations which create huge lines and then have huge prices for Fast Passes, fill every corner of the park with rip-off games... need I go on? Same old song and dance that led them into bankruptcy last time.

^^Yes, there is a notable difference in their built from scratch rides. The retrofits are forced to follow the path of the old ride, but their completely new models get to create their own pacing and sense of flow. It's hard to explain until you experience though. That's probably a discussion for elsewhere in any case. I think Thunderbird is going to be comparable in terms of ride excitement to either of the new SF RMCs. I think B&M's are never done justice in concept artwork anyway, when everyone sees this thing in person it will be pretty awe-inspiring. They're just plain big rides.

Using that train of logic, what companies aren't repeating things? Most traditional/classic wooden coasters all look the same. GCII's all utilize the same basic styles, then you have G-fighters, and don't even get me started on B&M's. RMC has now released quite a few designs, so of course you're going to see elements be repeated. I don't see where the expectation of an unlimited bag of tricks comes from. Face it, we only get to see a truly incredible new piece of technology come out in this industry every once in a great while. RMC's are going to normalize just like B&M inverts, launch coasters, wing riders, etc... If you can't get excited about a new awesome coaster like this, you need a new hobby.

I was checking out SFOG's FB page and noticed something interesting: it seems like over half of the loudest complainers have rollercoasters/rides in their profile pics, and they post repeatedly about their disappointment... Also noticing a disturbing trend of "the other park nearby is getting something bigger, therefore this sucks". I mean, I'm not blown away by these things either, but they are what they are: a semi-decent little flat ride. I just hate how the internet and greater exposure to the industry at large is making every announcement into a huge complaint fest.