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Everything posted by the_rock401

  1. The drop alone is absolutely worth the hype. I liked the AquaLoops moreso than the SuperLoops, but barely. The manually-controlled drop SuperLoops (like the ones at Six Flags Great America) have scarier drops, but I don't like how they dump a large quantity of water into the trough immediately below the box. In the straight drops, it's not such a bad idea, but in the enclosed slides, I felt like drowning.
  2. Sorry it's taken so long for me to post anything on my trip to SFGAm on Tuesday, July 3. Some thoughts: -I was surprised that the park wasn't THAT crowded. The cars had just barely filled the front parking pens. -It was HOT HOT HOT. Air temp over 100, dew point of 75, and not a whole lot of breeze. This made a lot of the loading platforms absolutely miserable, especially Viper and Eagle. -I, however, spent much of the day in the waterpark. By doing this, it actually helped keep myself from getting too overheated. -Last year's installation, the drop slides, are a winner. The crew springing the trap were a bunch of crackpots. This may sound a bit counter-intuitive for a water slide, but the only drawback of these slides is that once you drop out of the phone booths, there's too much water in the slide. Granted Scorpions Tail at Noahs Ark in Wisconsin Dells has the overbanked turn to get through, but one thing that works very well is that there's only enough water in the tube to grease the floor. At SFGAm, they have the big gushers installed immediately below the phone booth. In the weaving drop slides, this means no matter if you time your breath right and are exhaling the whole time, you WILL get a mouthful of water. Including stuff that comes in your nose and goes all the way through the sinus cavity. I don't want to feel like I'm drowning. -Oddly enough, the busiest the waterpark got was near the close, during the 5 PM hour, just as I was going for one last soaking before going on to the rest of the park. -The only drawback with me going to the waterpark was that somehow, both of the balls of my feet got some serious blistering. Was able to treat it, but it was just a pain in the rear end the rest of the day. -During my periodic forays out of the waterpark during the day, I found Raging Bull and X-Flight to be walkarounds or nearly that. I also found that the operators weren't afraid to break the schpiel, and as such seemed to be having a good time. One such operator at Superman challenged the riders of his train to play a game: DON"T LOOK DOWN. Naturally, he said this just as the seats were flipping over forwards. "Oops. You all lose!" -Met GayCoasterGuy at dinnertime, and was able to get a bunch of cycles in on both Raging Bull and X-Flight, as well as using his season pass to get some onride pictures. A big thank you! -After nightfall, I power-rode Viper and Raging Bull as long as I could. Went three rides on Viper without leaving the platform, then five on Raging Bull before I had enough (fatigue and heat had worn on me). -Overall, the park hadn't changed THAT much since I was there in 2007. Viper was still great at night, Whizzer is still Whizzer, and Demon is still an Arrow looper. -It's a good thing I didn't have to go far to my hotel. I was DEAD afterwards.
  3. So I'm going here tomorrow. I haven't been there since 2007 so I'm a little rusty. Couple of quick questions: Just how stupid busy is the place going to be? At rope drop, is it still "Proceed directly to Superman, do not pass Go, do not collect $200. " or is "Proceed directly to somewhere else? Where exactly is this new technological terror? Iron Wolf's old spot? Anyhow, if any of you want to meet up tomorrow, let me know.
  4. I am in for Saturday on the Mountain! Fourth WCB, but first since 2008.
  5. Interesting place for it. Across from Mandalay Bay is where the Tropicana stops and the hangars on the west side of the airfield start.
  6. I'm surprised that this hasn't been given the NTAG treatment yet...
  7. SATURDAY, MAY 14, 2011 SIX FLAGS OVER TEXAS ARLINGTON, TEXAS Last Saturday, I broke a 2-year coaster trip hiatus to go to Dallas-Fort Worth and Theme Park Review’s New Texas Giant Bash at Six Flags Over Texas. The last coaster trip I made was to Kansas City for Opening Day of Prowler, way back on the first weekend of May in 2009. The last visit to any park was a miserable Friday night at Valleyfair at the end of October 2009. The cold, sideways rain kept the crowds away from Haunt, the trim brake on High Roller cranked down, and closed operations on Renegade 20 minutes earlier than schedule. Between that and some other stuff, coasters and theme parks lost most of their interest on my end, and I took 2010 off. Fast-forward to this past April. I had been itching to get out of MSP for the winter after what is, by any reasonable measurement, the worst winter in recent Twin Cities memory. A cheap airfare and a coaster event later, and I’m booked to Dallas. It is here that I must pause briefly to acknowledge fate calling in a marker. Since my Price is Right/West Coast Bash 2007 trip to California, I have had a 4 year run without any major travel issues. Considering that I flew enough to make Northwest WorldPerks Elite for a year while tooling about the Northwest out of my Seattle base of ops, that’s no small feat. Anyway, my AA flight from MSP deposited me on the curb outside Terminal D at the enormous DFW airport. I call the hotel (which may or may not remain nameless, depending on what Robb/Elissa thinks of it) and they say that a van is making the rounds through the airport. I wait a while, and keep waiting, and keep waiting. An hour and a half and three phone calls to the hotel later, I get word from the desk to take a cab and they’ll reimburse me for the fare. Upon arrival at the hotel, I quickly found out why the hotel van never arrived at Terminal D. The van pulled up behind the cab and expelled no fewer than 20 young teenagers, on a run to somewhere-or-another. None too amused, I go up to the desk to check in. The desk lost the reservation of the TPR person in front of me, and I was fully expecting for them to lose mine as well. However, my reservation is in the system. I take my keys down the hall and find that they don’t work. Someone runs to the desk to change the keys. The next set of keys work, but when we open the door we find that the handle across the door that serves as a second deadbolt has been closed, leaving the door locked from the inside with no way to open it without taking the door off the hinges. I’m thinking that the hotel is booked up and I’m royally screwed. Instead, it’s back to the desk and I’m switched to another room. The gal even got me a beer out of the bar. By the time I stumble over to Humperdink’s, it’s 11:50 and the place is closing down. After four years of snag-free travel, fate calls in the marker. Back to regularly scheduled programming. Saturday dawns sunny and surprisingly chilly for Texas in May. I put in the first set of contacts in, run to the gas station for a pair of ZZ Top sunglasses (cheap), and load up on the breakfast that comes with the hotel. Shortly after 8 AM, the crew walks over to the SFOT gate and the TPR registration table. Everyone seems to just be wandering about the place killing time to the open. It is not a reassuring sight when no fewer than six school buses roll by from the Mesquite Independent School District, full to the gunnels with kids. The group finally gets the nod to go in through the hidden gate, underneath La Vibora. I had forgotten about how the security is at six flags park, and it’s a rather epic production to get me through. The group is escorted to the enormous queue for the New Texas Giant. Our group isn’t all that big relative to the staggering size of the queue. Even when everyone up to the train to load it, we barely get down the first set of stairs immediately adjacent to the station. We load up the train, and I’m fortunate enough to be on the first train out of the station. Let’s just put it this way: HOLY SHIITE!!!!! NTG revamped is an absolutely insane roller coaster. The second hill is a violent airtime jerker, and the tunnel’s foggers are a very chilly surprise on this brisk spring morning. Since the track is steel, this means the Giant is now a steel coaster. Figuring out where to rank the Giant is going to be a difficult proposition. About 9:30, word comes that Titan is ready for ERT. I high-tail it over there and get on the first train out. Titan’s is the nearly-identical twin of SFMM’s Goliath, with the same train stoppage in the mid-course. To the surprise of no one, it’s just as forceful through the helixes as Goliath. Even when riding as aggressively as I can, I am still getting tunnel vision from the intense G-forces. I have my fill of this after one ride. Back to the Giant for a spin, and then I am part of the group of TPR folks headed to the front gate to get FlashPasses. On our way up to the Flashpass processing facility, we are met with security escorting an absolutely huge throng of school kids, cheerleaders, and whatever hangers-on are mixed in. The group is solid, all the way back to the entrance plaza. The guesses of park crowding were spot on. There are a group of 7 that end up tagging together to form two groups. We were one of the first random Q-bot groups that Robb took a picture of. The first of the coasters we came to was the Big Spin. The line is out of the queue house, which is a symptom that would be repeated all day. Fortunately, our FlashPasses get us to the front of the line post haste. I’m not normally much of a fan of FlashPass/Q-bot (I’ll be using both interchangeable throughout this TR). However, on days like today when the park is stupid busy, it’s a lifesaver, particularly when you’ve got enough to fill a full train. Big Spin is just like Fairly Odd Coaster/Timberland Twister. If you don’t have the car loaded correctly, the only time it gets any spin is in the brake run. Sadly, we didn’t have the car loaded right. After big Spin, the other guys want to go to Superman Next stop is our first run on Mr. Freeze. This launched coaster is one of the most intense things I have ever ridden. The first time through I ride in row 2, and it’s a blast. However, one of the guys in our group doesn’t handle it very well. He's visibly shaken, and doesn't want to try holding anything down when we go over to the food court by the entrance. Instead, he heads back out to his car to lay down in an air-conditioned car. We end up wandering about the park for much of the remainder of the afternoon. Perhaps I haven't made it clear that the place is PACKED PACKED PACKED PACKED PACKED. Here are my thoughts on the remainder of the coasters at the park: Batman: Well, it's a Batman. Judge Roy Scream: Perhaps the name is supposed to be a tribute to Jodge Roy Hofheinz, brainchild of the Astrodome, but this coaster has aged like Timber Wolf. In other words, not well at all. Shockwave: 'Ol Anton actually built a coaster that isn't solely described by FORCE FORCE FORCE. After the double loops, there's actually some nice kicks of airtime. It's too bad that my 6'5" frame can't fold into his sardine-can cars. With my knees wedged against the front of the car, the bottom of my feet are a good 3 inches off the floor. Runaway Mine Train: For a coaster that is 50 years old, it sure is a fun little thing. The drop out of the saloon completely caught me by surprise. La Vibora: Someone said that this is the equivalent of an adjustment by the chiropractor. I didn't find this tobe the case. It's actually a really fun bobsled ride, and with our group in the bobsled, it felt like it was quite out of control. Runaway Mountain: This Windshear inside the warehouse was the longest line we waited in all day. The ride itself had a lot of force, and was rather uncomfortable for us tall guys. The 30 minute wait for Runaway Mountain takes us into dinner. Having eaten far too much bad park food over the years, seeing beef brisket on the menu meant that I went in there fully expecting to eat shoe leather. However, I probably should have remembered that I was in Texas, and they take their barbecue quite seriously. The end result was brisket as it should be: tender, tasty, and unable to hold together long enough to pick up intact with the fork. While we're feeding our faces, Robb breaks out a session of TPR Trivia. This is my first attempt at it, and it's very, shall we say, interesting. After dinner, I'm gassed. I head back to the hotel to switch contacts and take an hour nap. Don't laugh too hard at the "switch contacts" bit. The last time I had contacts in for a full day at the park (Opening Day for Diamondback at Kings Island), one set was in for almost 18 hours and I could hardly pry them out at the end of it. Two sets of contacts is perfect for an all-day campaign at the park. The park itself had a very similar feel to Six Flags Great America in Chicago. Upon return to the park, I get some sunset shots, then meet the guys again as they come off of Superman. We ride Runaway Mine Train again, and the tunnel is really dark after nightfall. The Q-bots get us to the front of La Vibora again, and we find a large stuffed dog in the exit line that has had, well, an "accident." After this, the Q-bots are returned, and we head for Shockwave for the start of ERT. Previously, we have been informed that we would get a full hour of ERT on NTG after the general public was cleared out of the queue, so to bide our time, everyone was sent to Shockwave. The operator (who is on the TPR forum) had quite the sense of humor, but I could only stand one ride on Anton's sardine can train. I hung out at the bottom of the exit ramp with Elissa, Guy, and a gal wearing a North Mesquite HS Marching Band shirt. Around 10:40 word came that the Giant was ready for ERT, so we all headed over and rode the daylights out of it. I think most of us got between 8 and 10 laps in during the night ERT. By the time it finally ended, it was almost midnight, and most everyone had their fill. I know that by the time it was over, I was just about screamed out. Robb and the TPR gang put together some fantastic events, and this one is no exception. A big thank you to all the folks at SFoT for putting up with all of us coaster nuts. Paul I know this is Robb's picture, but this is our group for the Q-bots. This is a big-ass cake! This is not a reassuring sign. Hidden entrance! Steep drops and lightning, very very frightening... More track... Sweet trains... From here the wait for Giant was 3.5 hours. Did I mention the park was packed? Obligatory artsy shot Ummm, plane? The crowd's over here, not at the Ballpark or Cowboys Stadium Two trains in the same frame! Can anyone identify what airline this is? Six Flags Over Sunset! Here comes the Judge... Sammy calling for the cleanup crew...
  8. I'll have more to say once I get home again tonight, but this was a FANTASTIC event. Robb and the TPR gang put on nothing but top-notch events. Paul "I'm the random dude in the Minnesota State Fair hoodie" Miller
  9. I'm game for getting in on a FlashPass. Never been to SFOT, and I'll be at the restaurant Friday night.
  10. Speaking of the Official TPR Hotel, where is it? I'm just about to pull the trigger on flying down there for my first park trip since the opening weekend of Prowler in 2009. Gotta book all the particulars in one fell swoop.
  11. My Bag O'Crap came today, but I'm dead-ass exhausted and will fill you in on the details tomorrow.
  12. Bert and company were at Noah's Ark in Wisconsin Dells before Memorial Day shooting an episode using the Scorpion's Tail, their new looping slide/technological terror.
  13. http://sotaroo.blogspot.com/2010/03/olympics-tr-2162010.html An epic recap of my trip up to Vancouver last Tuesday.
  14. Has anyone on this board actually ridden one of the German AquaLoops? I ask because I drove by the Dells the other day, and Noah's Ark is installing theirs by removing one of their Point of No Return speed slides. I'm a little excited to get down there this upcoming summer and check it out.
  15. X2 was exponentially better with the new trains than it was with X. Or at least in the wheel seats it was. I think a big difference between the old and new trains is that if you ride aggressively (i.e. keep leaning forward), you can get a fun and intense ride instead of just a head-pounder. As for getting there from Las Vegas, it can be done in 4:15-4:30. Granted I left Vegas at 7:00 Sunday morning, but it's still a fast drive. I went I-15 over Cajon Pass and 210 from San Bernardino through Pasadena over to the I-5. I did it in 4:15 going down there, and would have done it the same time had I not been dead-ass tired on the way back to Vegas, and need to stop multiple times to take naps.
  16. So I may suddenly find myself in SoCal sometime during the next week. I'm going to Las Vegas on Wednesday, and will probably want to get away from there for parts of that stretch. Any current park coupons, or extra season pass books floating around for the Mountain? I still don't have T:S or X2 credits. Paul "Probably won't get to WCB 2010" Miller
  17. The only thing that can help Son of Beast is 50 pounds of high explosives and enough shock cord to wire it all together. Whoever has the board alias "SonofBeastSucks" is spot on. Paul "I waited 40 minutes this spring to ride that pile of Shiite!" Miller
  18. I think this is a good addition to VF. However, the execution of this is a little lacking. You can tell that the next few capital expenditures at VF will be here, based on the amount of dead space between the pool and the rest of the waterpark. They've also got to work on the entrance. Right now, unless they've moved the control point closer to the Looping Starship, you have to leave either complex (pool or slides) to go to the other. It may not seem like a big deal, but having to get dressed in order to go between the two can be a major pain. And the name of the mascot is Colonel Oompahpah, FYI. He used to be a much bigger portion of the marketing scheme when I was growing up.
  19. Plat passes will work at all Cedar Fair parks, but in my limited experience with inter-park admissions (KI on Opening Day and WOF for Prowler), you should proceed immediately to Guest Relations and get things squared away before the bell. This is how you did inter-park at Knott's prior to the plat pass business.
  20. If you mean the Voyage prototype at Mt. Olympus, the train carries way too much speed through the tunnel for the amount of maintenance that the Greeks at Mt. O do. It's currently my #5, but it's fading rapidly. I know I've got to get the Holiday World trifecta yet. As for Waldameer, I'm not sure when I'm going to go there.
  21. http://sotaroo.blogspot.com/2009/05/tr-prowler-opening-day-2009-at-worlds.html FRIDAY, MAY 1, 2009 WORLDS OF FUN KANSAS CITY, MISSOURI My credit counter is spinning like a busted slot machine. Two weeks ago I made the epic trek to Cincinnati to get Diamondback on Opening Day, as well as get all the credits at Kings Island. I was going to go down to KC the last weekend of April, but then it became clear that Prowler wasn’t going to open with the park. Friends had reported that Prowler was awesome, so my curiosity was sufficiently piqued to make the trip down, albeit a week later than originally anticipated. The trip down Interstate 35 was pretty boring. I’m a born-and-raised Minnesotan (and proud of it), but I’ll fully admit that most of the state is very, very flat and pretty boring to drive across. There isn’t much to say about northern Missouri, either. And let’s not discuss Iowa. Fortunately, the Sirius satellite radio in the car kept things interesting. The biggest morale booster of the whole trip came just south of Exit 17, which is the turn for KCI Airport for travelers going south on 35. You come out from under the overpass, and suddenly there’s Mamba, Detonator, and the rest of the park skyline right in front of you. For someone who had really been dragging the last half hour, it was an instant shot of adrenaline. We’re almost there! Yay! I got off at Exit 54 of southbound I-435, and got confused by the layout of the exit. Since I’ve never been there before, I ended up missing the second left turn up to the WOF entrance and ended up by the Village and OOF. By the time I figured out how to get into the park and get parked, it’s about 5:45 PM. I see two people with TPR hoodies coming out, and I wander my way into the turnstiles. I show them my VF plat pass, they give me food and drink vouchers, and I head into the park. Worlds of Fun is a surprisingly hilly park. For that matter, Kansas City is a surprisingly hilly city. I probably shouldn’t have been surprised, as the Missouri River valley is a deep one through soft ground. Still, your quads, calves, and hamstrings get a good workout at the park. It’s also not clear where to go once you get past the front gates. I follow some folks who look like they know where they’re going It’s 15 minutes from the top of the stairs back to the head of the queue maze, then 15 minutes for each out-and-back in the queue maze. The maze was filled to the tune of three out-and-backs, which meant it was an hour wait for my first time on Prowler. The marshall at the entrance to the station was being quite strict on row placement, and I ended up in Row 6 in all three of my rides. Truth be told, I was not impressed with it on Friday night. It was certainly a fun ride, but not the kind of blockbuster that it needed to be to get within spitting distance of either a dark Renegade or a soaking wet Viper in Chicago. Operations got better as the evening progressed. I waited 45 minutes and 30 minutes for my second and third rides, but the first train that didn’t stack Friday night would be their first. After park close at 8 PM, I went over and checked into my hotel, then went looking for some barbecue. When it Kansas City, you eat barbecue, right? I ended up over at the Ameristar Casino (which is located about a mile from WOF), at Arthur Murray’s barbecue place giving the Plate-pourri sammich a try. I also made the mistake of ordering French fries to go along with it. When I finally got the plate, in addition to the massive sandwich, the French fries were formed into a MOUNTAIN! Talk about my eyes being bigger than my stomach. I managed to get through most of it before throwing in the towel. I really didn’t like any of the three sauces they had. After dinner, I went over to a crap table and proceeded to win $125. A great night in the City of Kansas! The following morning had breakfast at the Waffle House, then entry into the park. This time I needed to stop at the toll plaza to show my VF platinum pass. The clerk scanned it, then scanned it again with a befuddled look, then put in a call to GR. This went on for about 5 minutes, then the pass was handed back to me and I was told to go ahead. I got parked, then went down to the entrance gate, where they were admitting season passholders. Two weeks ago at Kings Island, my picture didn’t come up when scanned. My pass was scanned, and sure enough it happened again. A call to GR led to an IPA slip being printed and scanned. The supervisor at GR mentioned that they don’t get a lot of IPAs out there. I told her that with Prowler, they were going to get a lot of them this year. Finally into the park and back to the queue for Prowler. Shortly before 10, the park GM and a local TV meteorologist present the “first riders,” the winners of the auction for the Susan Komen Foundation of Greater Kansas City. After those riders were brought to the platform, the GM took a giant pair of scissors and cut a large cloth ribbon, and we were in business. Two rides here still didn’t do anything for me, and so I went off to check out the rest of the park. First was the Vekoma Boomerang. This one ran better than the one at Knotts, if for no other reason than I didn’t get my head bashed in when riding it. Then I kept going around to Mamba, Wild Thing’s brother in arms. No more than a three-train wait all day, but by the time I got up there they were done cycling one of the two trains empty. I went to get in Row 3, and the seats are soaking wet! It wouldn’t be a bad idea to have a dry rag up on the deck to take care of that. Once we got squared away, we went out for a ride. If you could put together the first two drops of Wild Thing with the rest of Mamba, you’d have a Top 10 steel. I’m partial to WT’s parabolic hill, but the headchopper effect of Mamba’s spiral was AWESOME. Plus the fact that the mid-courses were hardly grabbing made for excellent air on the way back. Two rides in a row here. Timber Wolf’s line was out into the midway, so I decided to take my chances riding Patriot. Two out-and-backs in the queue maze were filled, so I thought I was gonna be there all day. The line went surprisingly quick, only 20 minutes. Patriot is a BLAST! It’s been taken care of much better than close cousin Silver Bullet, and they have a good, brisk crew there. At this point, I left the park to do some other things I wanted to do around Kansas City. These things included getting my state credit for Kansas, going to the NABC College Basketball Hall of Fame (unimpressive), eating at Rosedale BBQ (much better than Arthur Bryant’s), and going by 12th Street and Vine, the corner from the song Kansas City. By the time I had done all of this and returned to the park, it was about 5:30, and I listened to the Kentucky Derby on the satellite radio in the rental. Back into the park, and time to get the credits on the top end I hadn’t done yet. Timber Wolf’s line had receded considerably, so I went there. It was only 15 minutes from when I entered to when I got into the station, but it took another half an hour to finally get on the train. Once there, it became clear that this was going to be a crappy ride when we were jackhammering on the lift hill! The main ride was no better. No airtime, jackhammer city, and ROUGH ROUGH ROUGH track. It’s not as bad as Son of Beast, but it’s within striking distance. Anytime a coaster is within striking distance of Son of Beast means it’s a pile of junk. Another spin on Patriot, then over to Spinning Dragons to get the credit. I rode it with a mother and daughter from a middle school in St. Louis. Did I mention that there were a lot of bands and orchestras in the park today, from schools all over Kansas and Missouri? Line for this was about 20 minutes. Even with a very off-balance load, the thing wasn’t spinning. I wished them a safe trip back to St. Louis, and headed to the back of the park. At this point, I intentionally took my time going back to Mamba, as it was getting dark and I wanted it to be as dark as I could get it for the night ride on Mamba that I’ve heard so much about. The night ride delivered. In fact, it was so much fun that I did it in the front car and back car. I still like the first two hills on Wild Thing better, but the headchopper effect with the columns is awesome after nightfall. A funny thing happened on the way to the back of the park. Prowler woke up. Remember how I have said on multiple occasions that Prowler just wasn’t doing anything? I’m willing to bet that Prowler didn’t have many testing days where it operated fully loaded trains for 10 hours running. Cause by the time I got my first twilight ride, around 8:40, the ride had changed. Maybe it was darkness, maybe it was my own perception, or maybe it was the inevitable breaking-in a coaster goes through. Whatever it was, the ride was now AWESOME! I also think the Law of Unintended Consequences was in play with regards to the placement of the on-ride camera. The flash blinds you, then BAM! A hard lateral, and by the time you get your wits back, you’re going into the brakes. At this point, I also found the single rider line. The guy up in the station was doing a good job of getting the train full, but the marshal at the entrance of the line was not. Frequently, she let groups into the queue. One duo asked me if they thought they could ride together. I told her no, you’re in the SINGLE RIDER queue. This was most unlike the marshals two weeks ago at Kings Island, where if you even looked like you knew the person next to you, you were sent to the main queue. Anyhow, my final ride of the night came right after they cut the queue. I finally got put in with a group for the back row. I’d been trying to get to either the very front or very back all day, so this was going to be a great way to end the day. Sure enough it was. I was left in breathless hysteria as we rolled back to the station. The following morning saw another Waffle House breakfast before rolling back to the Twin Cities, including a stop at a casino in BFI where I got a little bit more cash from a blackjack table. So where does it end up on the ranking list? Prior to the evening session with an invigorated Prowler, my wood list went Rene #1, Viper (SF Chicago) in a hurricane, Prowler, Avalanche, Hades, Coaster in Vancouver, then the field. Now I’m not so sure. I’ve been deliberating for three days whether to put Rene or Prowler at the #1 spot. No, I’m still not made up my mind yet. I’ll have to get some rides on Rene once it opens up to assist in making up my mind. Yes, I know I’m missing a lot of high-profile scalps, but I intend to rectify that sometime soon. Paul Miller
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