bill_s

This has me curious -- parks that closed like Geauga Lake and Astroworld, how empty were they? What does a park running on borrowed time look like? I'm guessing like many parks on a slack day, without the big days. As to the question, Drachen Fire was the first time a big park let me down, although BBW was the popular one. Hypersonic was a loss but understandable and rapidly compensated for (rough and uncomfortable? more like super-smooth and very kind to large guests as well).

The Hurlers before trims. Maybe horribly designed, but the curves were insane and the airtime sweet. KD Shockwave. All the Vekomas, especially the SLCs. All these are rides that when they run fast and rough, speed, energy and madness transcends roughness and they become worth it. I'm glad I saw this and looked up a video, your description does it justice. Strange coaster with all the track right on the ground except the lifts, I wondered why this isn't done more often.

I think the quantity of the vomit was the unusual thing, not the operations.

To me, SFA does compete with BGW, they're both the same distance from KD. I bet BG management considers them competition. The reason their 6 doesn't add up to BGW's 4 is that Joker's Jinx lives in the pale shadow of Flight of Fear, and Batwing doesn't help. As it is, SFA does still offer some diversity when added to the 2 VA parks. ... I certainly ride rides at KD enough times and still enjoy them, although I'm not typical. But at KD you can mix it up, ride 6 one visit and 6 others another visit, etc.; I get bored easier at BGW and could at SFA. SFA could continue to compete if they offered a ride more unique to the region, such as a hydraulic launch ride e.g. Ka or Storm Runner .. actually right in between, 96 MPH with a 306' spike, an Immelman and some twisties. Or a prefab woodie or Iron Horse, or just finally get their own B&M.

I haven't been there for 2 years, but I was amazed how nice and new looking the Wild One is. Mind Eraser could have used some fresh wheels and Superman could have used 2 trains, on a Monday, and Batwing was closed at first and Roar might have run that morning. A new major ride would bring people to the park. But they would do well to wait to 2013 after BGW is done for a while.

^^-- that shows a difference right there between people. I love riding in the rain. Now I305, that is like needles in your face -- if not nails -- but something the size of Battlestar should be OK, and looks like a cool coaster to me also. Anyway you certainly can't blame them for your choice of riding in the rain, and giving you that choice is still a plus. I don't know of any coaster I'd like torn down. Anaconda @KD has seen better days and really can hurt you, so I'd like to see it replaced, but that's a different answer by millions of dollars. Lots of people here are saying Hurler, sure it was rough but it still kicked ass until they added trims. I used to ride it 5 times in a row every time I made it over to the the Grove side of the park, now it's boring. But by at least not tearing it down, maybe in a year or 3 they can give it Topper track and it can become the smooth airtime machine it was originally. I know when I went to Carowinds in the mid-90s their Hurler was one of the few redeeming features of the park. At least KD still has Grizzly, which I think someone mentioned in this thread, and Rebel Yell, which is the only coaster I let hurt me in 2010 except Wildcat, but hasn't been suggested. As to the NYNY coaster, I didn't find it rough at all and everybody on the train clapped afterwords. Shockwave rules especially if the park is empty enough they're running 1 train and you can reride.

Like a zero-G roll and a bigger Phantom's Revenge? The point I wanted to make is there's so many ways to mix it up, we're seeing more examples, maybe it will run out but there's lots more. As each limit is reached -- #inversions was one of the first -- a sort of liberation to go into diversification takes place. The zero-G rolls seem only zero-G for an instant to me, there's still a centrifugal force or something usually too quick to even fully take in. I'm talking about something that would feel a lot different.... Phantom yes, but I'm thinking of different pacings, 2 climaxes to the ride or a way to build up the thrills. I see the intertwined 2 contrasting coasters idea is done with Battlestar Galactica, except I invisioned an even greater contrast. But that too. Many parks rely on their older coasters for "intermediate" rides, in the future we will see more new rides in that category which will further diverge.

For drops and elements that slow the coaster way down, increasing height produces diminishing returns of speed. Which you can look at as increasing height doesn't require that much more speed, but the heights being reached already are awesome enough for humans to probably not get accustomed to. A big limitation is wheels, as shown with I305 (if it wasn't already with MF), past a point it becomes limited what you can do with all that speed. Speed reduces the forces the wheels can take, further aggravated by duration of force-speed and complexity of movements (curves vs. hills, etc.). Another limitation is eyeballs, when you have to wear goggles or maybe even look at partially enclosing the riders, it's like putting in earplugs before cranking the volume. One thing, I'd like to see larger looping coasters, I think the B&M dive machines are currently the tallest? I haven't seen a table of largest looping coasters. But the point would be to do some things not possible at current speeds. I think there are a lot of things still to be done more interesting (to me) than exceeding 128 MPH/450' . Just to throw out some ideas I've had: a slow-motion "floatline" corkscrew, think a big floaty hill except twisted. Emulation of suspended coaster movements with a conventional track, including exaggerated ones a real suspended couldn't recover from. So much is possible through simulation that would be impossible otherwise, imagine complete freedom of creation of movements.... Increased TOTAL heights, for example a 150' hill on a hill (ground), later going a valley, total 300'. A coaster where the speed starts out slowly meandering downhill, building speed and going through tight then larger curves, peaking at a point at the bottom of the hill, then launched back to the top for high-speed extreme. Improved "junior" or intermediate coasters, more fun less intimidation. Intertwining/synchronizing 2 coasters, for example a small coaster soaring over and around elements of a big one; everyone would still want to ride both.

SLCs are a great ride. They are one of those that the faster and rougher they go, the more worth it the ride becomes. When they're slow, it's just rough. I had some front-row rides on The Great Nor'easter that felt like the train was being pushed forth by demons. And the back row does more for it too. I like that version better than the Mind Eraser, and there's no better setting (and it's a pretty gigantic coaster to operate in that environment). Especially at night, they're open late, although haven't made the trip since the new restraints. No one has said how superior the 2-wide seating is, although of course it overcrowds easier if they were actually popular. My last on a Batman (first after "experienced") was in the center rear, boring and I really can't rate it.... SLCs do vary a lot by seat, because the train is long compared to the size of the elements, making the end-train seats crazier; the middle is almost smooth, the design center. The design is beautiful, a compact knot, no brakes yet perfect speeds, even a nice airtime jump. The wheel design is old, bad especially depending on maintenance, I noticed big gaps between the wheels and track on the SFA Eraser.

On pass member preview day or just some Saturdays? That's some "special" if that's the case ;( ... but then I think Opening Sunday was bad enough in 2009 that I didn't go back until August ...

While not the most forceful, Dominator @KD is fast and fun and has the intense high-G turn at the end. That finale takes the whole ride up a notch, plus the big floaty loop is better than most B&M inversions. I rate it above Alpengiest (in current state of trims). Things like Griffon and Apollo are mostly killer first drops.... I've got to ride a Batman again, but back when I tried both, I thought SLCs (Morey's anyway) were certainly more intense.

The Fun Card is kind of dethroned by EZ Pay .. payments spread monthly (no interest), free parking and passholder benefits, good all year and a whole year (or 2) whenever you buy it (wraps around), can be extended monthly (for example you can do 13 months and get in a week before KD opens 2 years in a row on one "year" pass). I probably wouldn't have a BG pass right now, but it's such an EZ temptation .

I don't think that path is "empty", there's a huge coaster to look at, and the path is pleasant. Not room for anything substantial, maybe a little drink cart would do good business on a hot day (a water fountain or sprinkler would be even better) but PLEASE don't trash it up with games and stuff! I'm too aware of the original park layout to not be thankful for a short cut!

The descriptions of crowds at CP makes me really not that interested in it. Plus isn't going to be practical for me. I am considering SFGAdv this next year, but that was pretty crowded when I last went >10 years ago (probably not a good choice of day though). How crowded are they and what can I do about it? I will say a word about Morey's ... I think seeing how the rides are packed in on those piers is an experience in itself. You can't compare the same rides eleswhere to how they are in that environment. Great Nor-easter is just an SLC but all 5 times you go upside down, you are facing over the ocean, and it's one of the fastest (yes, really) and best maintained ones anywhere. I do have mixed feelings about Great White, it feels much harder than a true woodie, due to its steel structure, still a good ride but if you're prone to believing that is the best coaster there, well that could be a problem. Also, it's all about the night, open 'til midnight, sometimes later. In my experience, NOT highly crowded either, except Wildwood itself, which is ridiculous.

^^-- I wish I was riding it right now.

Trailblazer at Hershey is the most boring coaster that's not tiny. Has one nasty bump near the beginning to keep you from relaxing as a bonus. I disagree with almost everything else listed here I've ridden. SLCs, like 'em & GNE is one of my favorites in the world. Manhattan, liked it and it got a full round of applause from the riders. Anaconda has hurt me (3 day concussion) so that does kind of suck but I'd still ride my choice of row before waiting 20 seconds for Trailblazer. Hurler is now pretty bad, I loved it before the trims.

Oh, just thought of also: favorite trim Flight of Fear, vs. the later trimless outdoor version at SFA ... I think it allows the launch to be stronger yet the right speed at the corkscrew, the later version was retuned for OTSRs so now isn't as good, if it even had a chance being outdoors. The trim does bring FoF to a near stop sometimes (complete once actually), but it's kind of creepy up at the very top in there.

The idea of making sure there is enough speed and reducing if necessary is sound enough. The problem is that so many coasters have been about perfect and then trims were added or increased. And a lot of them aren't for maintenance issues as much as customer comfort/compliants (exception: I305). Well, one problem with I305 is they *didn't* leave areas for brakes to be added. That's why they're on the drop, there's no other place they can go before the problem spot of the first curve. There's very few other suitable spots on its layout either (it was suggested to add them on the 150' hill -- not only would that not deal with the problem, they would have to be in an equally airtime-killing location). Also, the original strong trims on the 75' hill did not kill the air on that hill as much as disturbing the flow of the ride so much it was hard to tell much about the hill itself. I did like the feeling of approaching the hill too fast, like when in a car and you suddenly jam on the brakes due to realizing you could die. Except most of their coasters only have good airtime in the rear seats. I remember how good the 2nd drop on Alpengiest was a couple of trim adjustments ago, and Griffon's been slowed down recently as well ... I can think of one ride that could use some more trims: Anaconda (before the loop). Elsewhere at KD, Hurler has been completely ruined, it was an airtime monster that has now been neutered. Many didn't like it, I usually rode 5 times. Now, one thing that seems make trim-haters forget their mission: Vekoma SLCs. No trims (at least the original layout), great "pre-B&M" design :duck:

They're not going to give all the details. There could have been some incident, or a bunch of small ones, or just some analysis. When Drachen Fire closed I managed to finally find out a plausible story by an insider: X-rays showed stress issues. It is very hard to explain to the public that the technology is so good, the ride could be perfectly safe for the time being, and yet soon will require the big bucks, or to be closed.

OK, in further consideration, yeah they are copies. In the sense of they could have redesigned them, but found it too difficult and unnecessary. Probably not a lot of pressure to build better coasters there quite yet, plus issues of having access to copy and using more advanced manufacturing techniques. Some of them look old already too in close up ... but actually, here in the off-season, looks sweet let's ride

I've missed the 5th coaster in visits to BG more than BBW specifically. However, back in the day I considered it an important part of what the park had to offer and very cool. More recent rides were more hit and miss but still occasionally captured me. It also did look really great, both the village section and the drop viewed from the bridge. The main continuing appeal was the back seats, there is a sort of airtime where the back car tilted up more than the others starting down the drop, due to it being weightless. The loss of a mid-intensity coaster is actually quite serious and one they don't have plans to correct. It is hard to measure these things, more like a non-enthusiast having fun when they didn't really expect to, overall quality of experience vs. headlines. However the ride was becoming less effective even at that. On one of my last rides, a sudden slowdown jerk would have thrown me on the floor had it not been for the restraint. One thing of interest to me is there are concepts within that ride that could be utilized. The motions could be simulated using conventional trains through special profiling of the track, especially using modern design software (in some ways this has been done with some "overbanked" turns)... also movements that an ideal suspended coaster could do but real ones can not. The pacing of a slow section followed by a fast one is rarely used and BBW's method had disadvantages, but launch technology could overcome this.

3 hours for Volcano year it opened, highly delayed and only running 8 seats. Long time ago, longest wait I endured in 2010 was an hour for Farhenheit and shouldn't have. Ironically, I have since managed to ride Volcano by myself several times, and in 2009 was even allowed to stay on and reride some. The best time to ride a new coaster is -- a lot later. On the subject of wait times IN GENERAL -- I'm older and and more patient but have become accustomed to shorter waits and definitely wouldn't be as into going coaster-riding if the waits were longer. It's not just less waiting or more riding, it's a certain momentum to the experience. You come off a ride happy and enthused. If you can get another ride in short order, your mood just builds. If it's into another long line, by the time you ride again the coaster has to work from scratch. As to the OP's question back in '05, I found Hershey rather crowded on my visit on a Monday mid-August this year. Also they have deals at night resulting in a surge right after 8:00, although I got a couple quick rides on Storm Runner right before close. Some parks are nice and have the money flowing, but I'll take a less crowded but good one 19 times out of 20.

Well 305 is local to me and I do love it, maybe it's that I presume a lot of coasters I haven't ridden are better than they are? What I disagree with is that the 2nd version of I305, was as good as the first. I also just have trouble with the idea that a coaster could be one of the best in the world that has a brake that yanks you out of airtime before it even reaches its peak. It just makes it a lot more likely your itch will be about as effectively scratched closer to home. What it takes away is the MARGIN of superiority which made 305's status almost a no-brainer. And that first version will probably be the only one where it seemed obvious it was too intense to be allowed to remain unchanged. I have a lot of trouble rating coasters, in some ways FoF and Volcano are better rides but for different reasons. Apollo is always going to be better for floater air, that's what it does. I think the high-speed curvey thing of 305 is awesome and I'm so glad someone finally did it. But I also loved the amount of ejector air and that has really been cut back. It is possible the new version will be the best for air yet, even with some braking, by improving how and when the braking occurs. Sure seems like a lot of trouble to go to, to still have a trimmed drop. I would prefer that they not be needed, or 2nd that they be put elsewhere especially later (it's not the drop itself that needs them). But I can see a scenario of that: the first turn is made enough bigger to allow the speed to get air over the hill and be a bit faster through the rest. ~Half the trims are moved back to the 75' hill. Each trim is far less obtrusive.

Interesting coaster. I've never seen a Vekoma with that layout, hope they ran simulations instead of relying on it looking similar to other coasters ... It is a 2-wide inverted coaster (10 rows though) with "C" section type tracking. The seats do look styled similarly. The corkscrew looks more like Intamin or Premier. As to your comments re: SLCs, I like them. Not new though.

I agree it's still a great coaster and definitely adds to the park. But as far as a coaster that "craps all over" all other coasters of its type, worth making a point to travel long distances to ride, with real "wow" factor, trimmed it just wasn't enough of that. The drop was no longer really better than Griffon or Apollo or any of the many others at that level, the 150' hill was one step short of lame. Especially with the straps, it did become much more a coaster you could relax and just enjoy though. I don't mind it becoming, and staying, something my body can handle. As to the Ocean View coaster, I remember passing by it many times, but my parents wouldn't stop. It did look a bit scary. That video is really stupid.