bill_s

I get tired of the view that there's much commonality between what's best for the park and best for the guests. I know for a fact it's not. Too many new attractions that are too effective at bringing in people equals a park that makes me feel better I can't afford to go there. The guests' interest is to get some improvements and the park somehow stay in business while looking like they're going out of business. Or in my case, get all the business on Saturday when I know better than to go (actually I have to go to work Saturdays and am off Mondays!). I know it sounds cruel, but tell me I'm not right. Seriously, having people to take the money seems to me to be one of the most fundamental rules of business. And I will NOT wait (in line) even 15 minutes for food I know is overpriced .. and that's talking about Wendy's, amusement parks are worse. I do have some sympathy for parks overall on staffing though, as they basically have to guess what they'll be needing. And we all know when it's going to be the most crowded -- whenever our first impulse was to go (probably gave away too much info there).

BTW, Delirium's short ride cycle was just as right as possible. If it could get up to full swing and back down even quicker it would be fine by me. I saw a test run where it didn't rotate but it hit max. about 10 times... Well not very specific but at least it's official. Thanks! Sounds to me like an in-house rehab.

So, was there any hints about Hurler and the future of coasters there? As to RMC vs. GCI, from everything I have seen the Thunder Road renovation was more successful. Yes, not the same original builders. I didn't realize TR isn't Topper track though (price was less than $1M according to the park). In-house retracking is also a possibility. The last one according to Wikipedia was 10 years ago and surely was just partial. I've never been able to notice any improvement from any of their work, except that it wasn't worse in 2008 than 2003 (I didn't go in the time between). Good Preview Day. Rode Delirium and it was mostly fun but I started feeling a bit "green" at the end. I don't know if I'll be riding again. While "pain and misery" may have been previously at this location, that was only at moment of impact. I'm not sure I'm yet recovered from Delirium and felt like I was going to throw up on Dominator 2 hours later. Maybe I'm just getting too old... but waitaminute I wasn't complaining before, you younguns were.

The smallness could make this work all the better with the terrain, etc., going to have to see how it turns out. It could also result in them having the only modern woodie in the area, although I'd like to see it be one of 3 modern woodies appearing here in 2017, vs. RMC Hurler and Roar .

That would be nice. However, I don't think it's possible to build a wood coaster using PTC trains where some seats are more comfortable than others, or one that is intense without the wheel seats being somewhat rough (at least with age and assuming non-RMC traditional wood). And coasters that were run with PTC trains before switching to Millenium Flyers (single-row cars) have no seat positions that provide any relief from that roughness, although better on average and reducing track wear. If you're visiting somewhere and a coaster isn't special, it probably isn't worth "learning" to ride, but at your home park it can be very worthwhile, IF the coaster has potential to be fun, which IMO Hurler was through 2009, might would have been a couple more years if it weren't for the brake, and will need serious work to ever be again. They've done that much work on Rebel Yell since 2008, although soon they'll need to start over because it's getting rough again... I've sworn off rides at KD due to roughness etc., only to learn to ride them later and continuing to ride them regularly thereafter. I'm wondering where the info about Hurler came from ... although all should be answered within a few days. Re: Delirium, I hope they keep the short cycle until I can try it.

^^-- Oh yeah. I certainly hope that the GP notices that Hurler isn't a good ride now. It's got a huge honkin' trim brake at the bottom of the first drop!!!!! ... ! ... the amazing thing is it's rougher now (last year) than before they put the brake on. As to the layout, first drop straight into a curve, low to the ground with high average speed, emphasis on fast curves and small hops ... where have I seen that before?

I used to love Hurler back when it was much better and you guys still hated it. And *I* find it horrible now. So yeah, they need to do something. It would make sense for it to just sit there until they do, even though that's kind of lame to be down 2 coasters from last year. Please KD, if you do that, put the extra crew on RY and Grizzly! Slow ops and closed rides is a "Really?" Re: delirium, in all my webcam watching I never saw a full test, but looks like one in that picture.

Lots of activity on the webcam yesterday, put in queue railings and by now they're all in place (although might not be permanent because they put a bunch yesterday and then moved them). And I saw the ride MOVE yesterday morning (edit: AND today, interesting..) -- not far but was a surprisingly OMG moment -- it may be all tested for all I know, but this looked more like they wanted to test power they're hooking up. I'm feeling more involved and interested by watching (despite it occupying the former location of The Irreplacable Shockwave ). There's a lot involved and a lot of landscaping left to do. The preview shot is only from about 2 weeks ago and you can really see progress now, compared. There's an excavation on the right of the ride that looks like a building could go there although they just put topsoil over it, they're doing more with that now but weren't before. The ditch or whatever to the left is also new... I saw irrigation put in between the ride and the building, I think they put it in when there will be little access due to high ride fences. The ride is also lit in blaze of light every night now, haven't seen anything but could be doing hookups or testing.

That would be nice if it was possible to do without a car but it could be its own adventure... it might be interesting to get some info on this even if the OP just rents a car. I do know there's a Richmond city bus that goes to KD ($5). Megabus.com ($1 and up) goes from DC to Richmond but don't know if they can do special stops; they also don't go to Williamsburg. I don't know if there's a preference for which park on Saturday. The main preference is for any other day, although that weekend is a better time to do it if you must. BGW might be easier to tolerate as it's a better park for not riding and its easier to cover in one day and has more other than rides, although probably will have more people total.

They nearly invented the first custom RMC element on Drachen Fire but had to push the Cutback element a little too far so they could count it as an inversion. These days somehow people are a little less concerned with such specifications so makers have a little more freedom -- although in the case of inversions, it's less people being more open minded and more that inversions have passed their saturation point, people realize they're not essential to a great coaster. I saw an Alpine coaster which is 350' from highest to lowest point, is this a giga? As the speed is regulated to a maximum of 20 MPH, clearly not, but I wouldn't require a single 300' drop either. And a ride in the "gray area" of this definition could be excellent.

Right, they own a lot of land. But they have no in-park transpo system and I305, for example, wasn't placed leaving an avenue to more space. I think several factors, such as my "expiration list" make it more likely, or even clear, that ride replacement is the way to go. It avoids aging coasters getting even worse or unsafe, or leaving them just sitting there, and it provides places to put better rides -- hopefully not just better than the aged ride to be replaced (e.g. Delirium), but maybe some of them better than the ride being replaced was originally (e.g. Anaconda replaced by a B&M). I could be wrong, there could be one more coaster added or put in a different location than the one to be replaced, but the "expirations" will be happening. I don't think they're in a hurry to start the replacement process but it's coming and probably has shaped some of the plan over the last 6 years.

It's a good sized coaster, the problem with changing it that much is the layout, with its emphasis on big curves and lack of larger hills, is somewhat restricting without a lot of redoing everything. It is, however, an ideal ride for the much cheaper Topper Track rework, which would make it as good or slightly better as when it opened and help it stay that way... I rode it this last year once, and it actually has gotten worse, and is finally deserving of all the complaints over the years. Although I do think I'm starting to forget how fun it was when it and me were younger, it's hard to imagine it being just as rough and yet worthwhile due to having untrimmed airtime, I know the brake makes it boring but it may be even rougher with it now than it was once without. It's possible the next KD coaster will replace Hurler, but I'd certainly rather see them do something reasonably economical to fix it's problems than continue to run it as is or close it and let it sit. If somehow they do find some new space for a new, non-replacement coaster, I don't think they'll also replace Hurler anytime soon. The realities of KD is that a lot of coasters will be reaching their "expiration date" within the next 2 decades, I'd estimate: Anaconda -- less than 5 years FoF -- 10 years Volcano -- less than 15 Dominator -- 15-18 Backlot -- 15 Avalanche -- 5-15 ? I305 -- 20 ? And woodies can be maintained indefinitely, but Hurler shows the limits/problems with that. Replacement of some of these coasters will be improvements, but the new ones will be shaped by the spaces to be filled. I think the park "went out with a bang" regarding ADDING coasters with I305, and these expirations will be the "driver" of changes to come.

I think the $4M is probably going to be worthwhile in terms of ride improvement, but it isn't going to get the attention a new coaster would. But I'm sure they can say they already got their money's worth out of it. If it turns out really good, it will be the best coaster that could fit in that spot, except for novelty. While some woodies might fit that spot and budget, the maintenance would be at least double and and you can't put a waterpark under them. I think if there was only one SLC, it would be considered a fairly good ride. It was just like, why are you parks putting so much into even more of these things? And Vekoma, didn't you notice a tendency towards oscillation after the first one, fix it before building more? And maybe even, and now you're going to fix it 20 years later?

I was just saying that the advantages of a multi-launch coaster are hard to ignore, especially if you have height restrictions, possibly self-imposed. It would be odd and different to use launching to make a otherwise mild coaster work better... not that we know anything, but there might be a void to be filled there.

The nice thing about multi-launch is staying low to the ground. It also can increase throughput because the ride is shorter without a slow lift, worth a little higher cost. RMC does do urethane wheeled wood coasters now, that could change things. Or their monorail steel design could interest the park. And Busch Gardens turning into Hersheypark? No thanks. Please! .. well not really. They're a long way away from that. They've done well with some ride interactions with each other and the scenery so far without making the whole park like that. In fact it's necessary to compress ride areas to keep other parts empty.

This. It just got the park a lot more respect. The immediate need of keeping ahead of BGW could have been done with other coasters but this goes further. They didn't need just another coaster. I think they'll get a new coaster soon, but as a replacement and I don't mean for Shockwave.

I think the lift-launch is more efficient at extracting energy from the lift motors. A horizontal launch results in more speed during the launch, but this is usually not maintained. L Rod is supposed to be the world's fastest wood coaster as it is. It's probably no accident that it is a more conventional wood coaster for RMC except for the launch, this makes it contrast maximally with other launched coasters.

Drachen Fire was rough but no worse than most Arrow. The restraints were unique and should have been changed before the ride opened, and that they never were even after lawsuits was unbelievable. Basically solid steel with about a half mm of hard rubber coating, placed at perfect level to break necks. If your body tapped them, you felt pain. If your head hit them as hard as on the on the average B&M, you had to check for permanent damage. I rode it a LOT because it was good and unpopular, but it wasn't a ride to relax and not worry on, penalties were severe for any mistake. The location may have had a snowball effect, if lots of traffic people knew it was there, once low traffic most didn't.

I understand the idea of Fast Lane, that if one spends a lot getting to the park then they can spend more to make sure to get their money's worth from the first chunk of change. Unfortunately, not only is CP out of budget in any case for me, any park that is within budget is only so without addons like Fast Lane. So, saying "fast lane is the only way to go" is basically saying I don't want to go there.

Well my post was a self contradictory, in also acknowledging there's things worth waiting for. Plus, extreme slowness can just be painful to watch, while a well-oiled machine is impressive. OTOH there's some advantage to not being popular. I'm sure CP can be better than some reports make it sound, but hour waits I'd do only once.

If you only have one employee checking restraints, for example, it's going to be a lot slower than 4 people checking them (see BGW). That's a management decision. Specific to SFA, the employees are friendly usually but somewhat laid back. They seem maybe used to the leisurely pace of MOST days there. To my mind the park doesn't do crowded well, they'd have almost completely compensate for the crowds by faster ops because you're not waiting for Kingda Ka. OTOH, go on a good day and it sounds to me 100 times better than waiting an hour a ride at some overhyped place like Cedar Point .

But wouldn't you expect more, even not liking what was there? By IOU for a coaster improvement, I just think this makes it more likely something bigger is on the horizon than simply replacing one mid-to-small-size coaster with another one. I'm not even sure that would be best for me, I just think it will happen.

I doubt it costs near as much as a coaster would, even most smaller ones. In that sense it's certainly not an upgrade. But it is something new, which in the immediate term is an upgrade, but eventually not. In terms of maintenance, obviously it is, but not my problem . Whether it's a good ride, or upgrade, to me I'm reserving judgement. If it has ONE TENTH the lasting appeal of a coaster, that will be a first for a flat ride, most of which I find horrible intentionally nauseating torture devices.

I don't think it's an upgrade because it's not a coaster. It is perhaps a better use for the limited space, especially since they can beautify or something too as a result, although a good coaster of dense design could have been fit. I'm not upset because 1) nothing lasts forever, and 2) for now I'll take that as an IOU for some kind of coaster upgrade in the near future (see #1 anyway). Oh, and Shockwave's last operating today was packed, although up to then it was not, I tried to get my fill.

Adding Kings Island wouldn't work. If you wanted more big parks, I'd say fly to NYC and go to SF Great Adventure. Or if a combo of beach and coasters appeals, maybe Moreys in Wildwood NJ. EDIT: forgot Hersheypark, also not that far out of the way, and great. DC is great, but depending on you it could have little interest. Personally I'm not sure what would be a choice for 2 days, but BGW wouldn't be it. Shows may not be opened yet that time of year at some parks, also, check... KD would certainly keep you occupied 2 days, but the essentials can be done in one day -- although none of those days because I consider night rides essential, and every day they're open after dark that early in the year will be otherwise overcrowded except maybe Monday May 30. If you can figure it out, look at arriving late to KD or BGW late 5/30 or 6/4 and then going all day the next day, and maybe the same thing further south the next weekend.