bill_s

Carowinds, Knoebels, maybe even Kings Island and Wildwood would add a lot per mile to that route. But depends how "greatest hits" you want it to be, or a marathon of doom. Edit: oops Carowinds is your home park I guess.

Yeah this looks like the next step beyond the B&M track design; they had the single thick support but couldn't make it smooth enough to have the train ride directly on it. Appearance is the #1 advantage, followed probably by cost and strength.

RMC is so obvious, it's obvious, so much it should happen! One thing would be to find a way to *promote* smootherizing old woodies with Topper track. It really hasn't been done that much. Seems like it would be cheap compared to the full "treatment" but maybe it's hard to avoid the temptation of new trains and then you have to make it a big deal somehow. But RMC isn't just about the wood or new opportunities for improvement, it's also the wacky elements. I was talking about how the sensations and motions of a suspended coaster could be synthesized on a conventional coaster using software simulation before even seeing any of these RMC designs (actually, inspired by looking at a B&M overbank). That's what they're doing, crafting new sensations. Think how much different Drachen Fire's cutback would have been if they could have properly simulated it. It might have looked the about same but felt much better... especially if they didn't have the need to make something they could call an inversion. So, if not RMC, get innovative design from somewhere. I also think hilly parks such as BGW and Dollywood offer some unique possibilities for coasters. Seems like something cool could be done for flat parks if they got a family type coaster, not Volcano's mountain but something for the coaster or it truly interacts with, like several little mountains or mesas the coaster winds through, around, and tunnels through.

I don't think there's a situation where it can end up being a block brake for multiple train operation unless the final brakes go into a shutdown mode, because the lift takes as long as the rest of the ride. It still may be needed then. Mainly it's for a second dive, the train stops entirely for the first dive after all.

Yeah, that seems cooler to RMC the Wild One, although there's more history to that ride. Anyway, you can't rule out the possibility ROAR won't be converted, it would just be more prudent to not convert 2 rides the same year. Not that IBox conversions are exactly an experiment anymore, it's a lot of money and they can see how one turns out. Seeing the new Joker/ROAR at SFDK, I think I was proven correct that it will add less to the ride than other conversions they have done. It is full of RMC goodness, but every inversion was already a cool twisty bit, every great curve already there. Topper tracking the existing layout would be more improvement per dollar spent (guessing on cost), but it wouldn't be promotable as a new ride, so it wouldn't necessarily improve business as much per dollar.

Rather have a B&M. Heck, Shockwave is the only thing worse than a Vekoma. Does every other post on this forum require some ridiculous insult of a ride or manufacturer? Perhaps you'd like to be judged only on what you did back in the 90s. Besides, the coaster pictured is a recently designed family suspended coaster. Have you ridden a Vekoma family coaster? Or a recently designed suspended coaster by anyone? With lap bars and no floor? B&M doesn't make them. Their site shows some intriguing pictures of them going through overbanked curves. I think the park could use a better family coaster, not that I'm rooting for that. Of those possibilities, the Vekoma suspended does look like an enjoyable ride. I think something based on running through an artificial landscape, or truly through the woods, would be the real trick for making a fun family coaster, though, regardless of track type. * * * I recently looked at Google Maps and see the factory south of the park is a paper company on the left and "Doswell Limited Partnership" on the right, including what looks like 2 sewer treatment pools. You can smell them strongly sometimes and slightly quite often, even as it is. I don't think the park will extend much in that direction. Plus, there's the issue of even more walking, with clearly no plans for transport around the park.

Sounds like a fair deal to me! As much as I would love a new coaster, there is a down side. Actually though, the park was a ghost town in June 2009 and I305 stopped that slide. Attendance wasn't that high in 2010 after it opened, but it bumped up in Aug. 2009 right after the new coaster was announced and has been slowly growing ever since. Exactly, if KD does nothing, they will eventually lose.

We are lucky, but just don't want to see coaster reduction becoming a trend, hopefully it will be upgrade from here on out, even if slow. I totally admit wanting a new coaster is a "want". Have to admit Delirium makes sense for The Grove aside from being less big (expensive) than a coaster replacement (it may be made up for soon enough though). Just like the I305 addition, it could be called a response to criticism, this time to settle the question of which park in the region has the best flat rides. I find the excitement of a new ride or a park for the first time, or for a long time, fades much more rapidly than that. I wouldn't want to stay all day at any park more than a few times a decade. However, for a shorter visit a park like KD is almost always enjoyable. The sheer number of different rides, esp. coasters, allows you to mix it up different ways every time. Any enjoyable ride contributes to that, even if the excellent ones are the stars. A "terrible" coaster in my local park is of more real interest and value to me than the ultimate coaster across the country that I'll never ride, even though knowing of such rides do cause desire.

Has any park ever tried this: normal priced drinks for everybody.

It is not a coaster, so by definition, it is not. It's a lot cheaper ride than a new Shockwave-class coaster, however. It shouldn't exclude a coaster soon, although seeing CF lately, another may have to fall to get that. It would be a new experience for me, however, are thse rides in any way sickening like Berserker or Bourbon Street Fireball? Unless someone can convince it is not, I will never ride. Fireball was the worst experience I've had on a ride in years, almost ever.

The best themed ride anywhere is Dominator. It's loudly themed as a giant roller coaster. They ought to be advertising coasters on NASCAR cars, not the other way around. As to Intimidator, it really seems like who pays who in these theming deals. I guess as long as they sell more merch, everyone wins, but they still pay something if they don't. I think the rate of coaster work at KD will increase compared to the last few simply because they have to start removing some old stuff. Sometimes just because it looks bad. I can only hope they don't want to drop their coaster count (much) long term. [chart shows "coaster re-work" in each of the next 3 years] Is that just maintenance or something interesting? I didn't talk about in my improve Hurler posts that they actually did just that (but not the best way) at Carowinds, but then, it's now their only woodie. That was an unprecedented amount of coaster rework for CF until the Rougarou conversion.

1. What will KD lose with Shockwave? It was boring, painful, and had horrible operations. 2. KD does need an airtime machine. 3. Why would they start to clear a big portion of land if they are not using it for an eventual coaster? Unless they are bringing back the safari. I doubt they are putting a coaster in Shockwave's spot, unless it's a junior invert. 1a) reading comprehension, I said one thing we're losing is airtime in the post which you replied to. 1b) don't interpret this as "bring back Shockwave" but we don't know yet if anything better will replace it. As I liked the ride, while almost any new coaster would be an improvement, I can't think of any other kind of ride that wouldn't be a let down. 1c) I'm just really sick of coaster hate, that someone would get emotional satisfaction from seeing a ride close or be torn down, without any consideration of people that like it, that it still helps your park visit by occupying people, and just being an expression of being unappreciative and jaded. 2) KD has a lot of airtime in many different forms. It gained one of the rarest kinds with I305, extreme ejector, but has been whittling away at airtime elsewhere with the braking of Hurler and closing of Shockwave. It could be argued it doesn't need extended floater air or an airtime specialist, or with that much air it's only one step from having all types represented. Either way, airtime is an example of the "funny math" that occurs when comparing KD with other parks, that might even be helped (in some people's minds only) by closing some coasters, and definitely by replacing some. The airtime at BGW is easier to calculate and more obvious, but no way is the total greater than KD with over twice the coasters. 3)I don't know why they're clearing land but I can see only one way a coaster's going back there: if the entrance can be located within the current borders. For example, a launch coaster with the bulk of it further away, like FoF's layout. Even then, probably would call for the removal of Anaconda (more ride replacement). I think the reason we're going so long between coasters is this shift towards coaster replacement, both inevitable and desirable. That and I305 being such a big one, advanced probably 1-2 years early, and the park really needing other improvements, not yet complete but getting there.

I don't see any KD-no-airtime complainers mentioning the park just lost a bunch with Shockwave. I guess you actually would have to ride it. I saw the Darkwave for the first time last night and was sad a moment. Then went back to my ride. * * * The ideas that KD will put another coaster in even further from a bathroom than I305 is extremely unlikely. It looks like to me the boundaries of the park have been established in a way that does not require a transportation system. It certainly doesn't appear that I305 was added with any thought to putting something else over there. They knew the clock was running down on too many coasters. There's is maybe a possibility of moving one in the process of replacement, but I can't see space available that's better than where they already are.

I stand corrected. The ride called Hurler has clearly created such hate that, as far as it is regarded, many can't even process the difference between a revamped version of a ride and what it is now.

^^-- Pavers and sprucing up the park don't bring in the crowds either -- at first. Improved guest experience has cumulative results. Not that I want them to be popular, but I do like nicer rides. I may be overestimating what the park needs to do, basically 3 coasters need replacement or transformation. It just seems likely the thing's going to sit there and run in its diminished state until I'm too old to walk around the place any more. And it is an unusual case where a relatively cheap and effective solution has suddenly become available.

I must emphasize I'd rather them spend tons of money all the time. . But instead of a flat ride or something that could be done for about the same price, I'd like a pretty good coaster back please. Do something else big the year before or after. Unless that would be to replace it with a custom RMC or better. Through 2009, every Hurler ride had air in every row on every bunny hop and those parts were about as rough as Woodstock. No more. I call that borken.

A.J, interesting, I don't think I'm the only one 'round here that didn't know that. At any rate, some companies known for their Intamin coasters have gone shy with them... JohnyRCT, I don't see your point, I was pretty clear in mine: construction details wise RMC is very innovative, but it wouldn't matter if they weren't inspired by it. As an engineer, I find it brilliant though. AirMBTB, good post, no coaster or park can have everything. Drop track coasters do add to the scene, but my point was they do have a weird lack of flow. But things can be argued more than one way: Big Bad Wolf's second lift did build suspense to the big drop, which is good. It also made it seem like riding 2 disconnected coasters in series.

How do you know? And apparently I haven't ridden a woodie with a decent restraint system since the 70s. I still like them. I LOVED Hurler until they put the brake on it. It might indeed be less exciting with topper track, but they won't run it and maintain it as it was and everyone complains, complains, complains. It was a very good airtime coaster, for one thing ... the people complaining about airtime at KD must have a very strict definition. KD has too many coasters which they kind of bend the idea of a family or beginner coaster to, but not any actual great ones. Hurler is now very family in thrills, but too rough to not be thrilling. Shockwave is going away. I went with a friend to KD once and got there and THEN he announces he doesn't want to go upside down or 200' ... good thing we didn't go to BGW, we'd be riding Grover all day (this was few years back). I don't want a family coaster myself, but can't say that area isn't improvable or wanted. P.S. Cedar Fair has yet to RMC ... but KD is one their more "experimental" parks, so the first would most likely would be here or at CP.

^^-- I can't think of anywhere on Anaconda that would be a problem. Except maybe Arrow's smaller coasters, the reach envelope is usually huge. Touching the wheels could be a problem maybe. I was concussed once so hard on it I was affected for 3 days. I'm now very careful about riding it but still do. They did seem to improve it for 2014. I saw new paint on the "spot" and of course there's more new paint now. I don't know what else they could have done, but it does really help. Otherwise I'd say get rid of ASAP, for their own sake! Yeah man! And Hurler has that problem now of being rough AND boring (not even that rough, but what else is there to notice except that what a tragedy?). Thunder Run, considered an inspiration for Hurler's layout, got topper track and one reviewer described it as now one of the best wood coasters. Sure, no inversions etc., but what's wrong with a coaster restored to run as good or better than the day it opened? I'd miss the jackhammer first curve but am intrigued by how it would ride if smooth and fast too. Maybe even with a little tricky RMC twisty bits it would come across as the mini-wood-I305. And you have to remember the difference between a straight Topper track job and a full I-Box conversion is like a Hyundai vs. Ferrari pricewise. They could go on to other major improvements in only 1-2 years rather than 5.

RMC's track is not just an I-beam. It is a manufacturing method that allows box tracks to be made with shapes that would be difficult to follow even with steel tubes, whilke being less tortuous to the materials. That's very innovative, but except for being able to rescue wood coasters from a maintenance nightmare and keep new ones running well, not in itself of great interest to the rider. The great news is this has inspired a surge of ride design creativity which is even beginning to influence longer established makers. Intamin seems to have a problem now that no one wants to do business with them. Some of the other new innovators listed are interesting, but I see no substitute for a proper coaster. BTW, drop tracks completely destroy any sense of pacing of a coaster, interesting gimmick at best. I've ridden Verboten, they replaced a perfect example of what to do and what NOT to do (stopping in the middle) and didn't learn a thing ... or maybe they figured the old coaster had that issue, so no one's losing anything and here we're gaining a new trick....

I think Shockwave was a good coaster, in fact would have been great if twice as long (but not twice as painful) and taken half as long to get on and off of. Its time has come because 29 years is just right, not too long, but yeah yeah yeah enough... they got their money's worth LOL. And hopefully to put something really cool there!

I've never seen it open.

I wanted to say that, but didn't. Currently at 6 rides since the announcement and not done.

My impression is Millenium Flyers make all rows equal. The wheel seats are gone, but the non-wheel seats are actually slightly worse, because the row behind you doesn't take most of the punishment. The real thing to do with them is use them before the track is damaged by PTCs. As to Roar, love it.

I don't think there's anything on the highway, at least coming from the south, but there used to be back when they were more crowded and less good (coincidence?). Once you exit there's a sign you're going the right way, which at first is like thanks for nothing, but after about 10 minutes of driving that sign becomes a real good thing.