FeelTheFORCE

Meh, it's only temporary, I'm not too worried about it. If I can get over Skyrush's break run misery, this will be a breeze.

Gatekeeper was much more enjoyable with the loose vests, but either way, when I'm staring a 90 degree, 200+ foot drop right in the face, the last thing I'll be worried about is something nitpicky about the harnesses.

I wish the principle of good quality customer service came into play a bit more. I can't help but wonder how many people are turned away and don't repeat visit because of the bad quality of their operations and such. I guess there's still enough people going through the turnstiles to where that doesn't really matter. A shame, really, that the $$$ is just too loud for them to care.

I always thought it would be cool if they could somehow extend the train and add another stop or two. If that's even feasible or practical (probably not). They did change the course a bit for Maverick, though.

I agree. I wish Sky Ride went a bit further. Sometimes it's quicker to just walk.

I completely agree. I'm not sure how much they make off flash passes, but the same thought kept running through my head when I was there in 2013. It was the middle of the summer during one of the peak seasons, with some of the worst operations I had ever seen. Lines were unnecessarily an hour-plus longer than they could have been due to completely preventable and avoidable stupid things in operations alone. I remember specifically, in addition to the just horrible operations in general all over the park, Scream was running one train, and Lex was closed for the entire week. Your brand new 400 ft drop tower, and what should be a B&M capacity machine both down in the middle of July because of routine maintenance. Mind-boggling.

The one thing I don't like about the Zamperlas changing directions is that you're always in the same spot every swing. I like the feeling of being somewhere different on MaXair during every swing.

I really enjoyed looking at those comparison shots! It's really interesting to see, from an engineering standpoint, how changes like those make such a huge difference.

Yeah, they've done quite a bit of filming in Pittsburgh.

How about just a basic old school log flume? Agreed. Sometimes you don't need to reinvent the wheel. Just keep it simple.

So, about these contracts...

Fair enough. All extremely valid points!

Can you provide us some examples? To support your facpinion? Can you provide a reason why this is such a blasphemous and unheard of concept? Because there's no proof of anything at all and you're arguing this opinion to death with nothing to back it up. You don't have any solid evidence that what you're arguing is actually how real world business transactions happen in the industry, and when people ask you why you think such a thing happens you're saying "it just makes sense." Why are you so set on being right? It's really not a big deal. I couldn't care less about being right or wrong. I'm bored and trying to have a more interesting conversation on an internet forum during the offseason, than 160 pages of boat hashtags (#NeverForgetTheBoat). Isn't that the point of a forum? To speculate and converse each others' opinions? I have a lot of respect for cedarpointguru, because he was making good, valid points and stating his honest opinion. Key word, opinion. I've admitted that I don't know how it works, and I've respected other opinions. I'm sorry that it makes sense to me, but it does. I was honestly hoping to get some other counter points on why that wouldn't be a good idea and have a friendly debate like adults, but it's just been all bickering about no sources, instead of any actual counter-arguments and additional opinions. Oh well.

Can you provide us some examples? To support your facpinion? Can you provide a reason why this is such a blasphemous and unheard of concept?

That inversion is so subtle, but so awesome.

If you were ever curious about what it felt like to have your soul ripped from your body, then SFMM Green Lantern is for you.

Simply my opinion. Haven't you ever heard of buying in bulk? It does businesses wonders. Of course no one knows for sure what the official process is. I have no idea what they do, I just go to the parks and enjoy the hell out of their amazing rides. It's a possibility they do things that way, I just don't think they do based on other successful business models, and past trends dating back to the 70s. In this interview, Jason McClure stated that Cedar Point is always at least 3-5 years ahead, which is exactly what I said. Meaning that by 2012 Cedar Point knew they were adding at least both Gatekeeper and Rougarou. With how large of a project Valravn is, having to remove the turnpike cars and a large theatre, and relocating Calypso and the bumper cars, wouldn't it make sense that a project of that size is agreed upon fairly well in advance? And hell, at that point, you already have B&M in your building discussing Gatekeeper and Rougarou, why not just book all 3 while you're at it? BOOM, package deal ( ). In this article, Matt Ouimet states that Knotts has at least a 5-year plan, and wants it to be 10. Wouldn't it only make sense that the chain's flagship park and resort destination, Cedar Point, have just as intricate of a long-term plan? Pure speculation. I still stand firmly by my opinion that it's not uncommon for parks/chains/whatever to sign multi-ride deals from the same manufacturer over a certain period of time.

Your evidence is logic. Having long-term plans is a better logical way to run a business, rather than purchasing coasters on a whim, year to year. Let me ask you this. B&M has been known in the past to turn down some parks because they are simply too busy with other projects in those particular years. Why would Cedar Point run that risk, when they could just purchase a 3+ ride package deal years in advance, guaranteeing that "X" ride is installed in "Y" year? Not to mention I'm sure there's some sort of discount in doing so. Makes more business sense to me, I dunno. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I don't visit it that much either, but it would be a great addition. It is extremely outdated, and Cedar Point is a "resort" destination, so the families would eat that right up. I actually want to go back soon because it's been like 10 years since I've been in Soak City.

I wasn't talking about the rest of Cedar Fair, I'm talking strictly Cedar Point. What's added at Knott's, MiA, etc. has zero effect on Cedar Point...except maybe Kings Island to a certain degree. If it did, then I305 wouldn't exist. These "package deals" have existed at CP since at least Corkscrew in 1976, with the only exceptions being Mean Streak (a giant project in itself, and who would want to add two of those, let's be honest), Wildcat (unless you consider Jumbo Jet), and Woodstock Express. Every other coaster since that year has been part of a package deal with either another coaster or another ride from the same manufacturer. Corkscrew (1976) & Gemini (1978) Jr Gemini (1979), Demon Drop (1983), & Avalanche Run (1985) Iron Dragon (1987) & Magnum (1989) Raptor (1994) & Mantis (1996) And the rest we all know. Flat rides are a different story, but when a coaster is involved, you can usually expect something else from the same manufacturer in Cedar Point's case. It's just how the business works. We don't know that for sure, but which is why I said give or take. I agree that Cedar Point usually adds coaster quicker than 5 or 6 years. Honestly, I was pretty surprised they went that long between Maverick and Gatekeeper. But again, that's most likely because their deal with Intamin was over, and they were deciding what to add next. Remember that they consider offers from all types of manufacturers, which takes a ton of time to go over all of them, narrow down the ones they want, get final approval, etc. This was all happening when they were changing CEOs as well, which probably didn't help speed up the process.

I don't have a source, nor do I remember where I read it, but I do remember seeing once that Cedar Point is basically 5 years ahead at all times. Whatever we are seeing now was put on the table and agreed upon roughly 5 years ago, give or take. Which would make sense, considering Gatekeeper opened in 2013. I'm still inclined to believe that Cedar Point is treated as their own entity, considering the rest of the chain was building other brands in the 2000s, while CP was all Intamin. I hope I'm wrong, as I love more new coasters as much as anyone, but I believe this contract is coming to an end and Cedar Point will be moving in a different direction from B&M in the next few years. Valravn seems like a great "epitome coaster" to end the contract with.

I said A FEW years. 4 years from now would sound about right. It was 6 between Maverick and Gatekeeper, and 4 between TTD and Maverick. You could be right, it probably was Cedar Fair, but larger parks like Cedar Point might be their own entity. And I'm not sure I'd group Behemoth in with these. Was Cedar Point negotiating pre-Behemoth to build a Dive Machine with vest restraints? Considering the first Wing Coaster didn't appear until 2011? I highly doubt it. Even so, with that many coasters built already, that's an even stronger indication that this deal is probably close to an end. That's 8 coasters, 9 if you count the Rougarou transition. There really isn't much more to build, and all of the major parks have been hit with at least one project...some multiple. The ONLY thing remaining that I can think of is if Kings Island builds a Giga. I feel like if a flying coaster was in the cards, one would have been built by now in one of those nine projects.

I don't see a flying coaster coming to Cedar Point. I think parks like Cedar Point usually sign package deals with one manufacturer over a span of few years. Hence why it's been all B&M for the past 4 years (and all Intamin from 2000-2007). Personally, I think CP's deal with B&M will be done after Valravn, if that's the case. They most likely signed a 3-project deal, 5 or so years ago, and we've reached the end of that contract. I'd be willing to bet we don't see another coaster, period, for a few years even. They are probably currently in negotiations on the major coaster project(s) to appear next. It also looks like they are gearing up for a major Soak City expansion with the changes happening in Challenge Park. I'm sure they have long-term plans for STR's spot, but I bet we don't see what they are for at least 5 years, probably more. Ripcord moving in that area will probably be the only thing for now. Over the next few years we'll probably see some small, but much needed improvements (a-la the Gemini plaza)...I wouldn't be surprised if we even see the long-awaited dark ride on the top of the arcade sometime soon. Regarding TTD, perhaps from a maintenance and financial standpoint Kinzel is right (and kind of expected), but even 13 years later, EVERYONE still talks about and marvels at that thing. I still get the, "have you ever ridden this before?!" from random strangers all the time while waiting in line. And if it's down for a period during the day, the moment it start testing again, people start running. I think half of it is the experience itself, and how close the people watching can get. CP knocked that aspect of the ride out of the park.

Those stairs should be an upcharge attraction in themselves.

Wow that looks pretty fun, I'm sure it will be a good family addition and could spread out the lines in BB a bit. Looks like it should be pretty high capacity too! My submission: Riptide Racers. Alliteration! I submitted this name 8 days before they posted anything about the contest publicly on facebook, but I somehow didn't win... feels bad man [attachment=0]Untitled.jpg[/attachment] You probably weren't the first/only one. I remember for Aftershock they had at least 10 people who submitted that name.