Intamin and Giovanola and B&M

[coloradocoasterguy]

Nor quoting anybody in particular here but is this why most of the Intamin, Mack, Gerstlauer, and Zierer coasters built in the last decade or so all have such similar looking track styles? Someone else is building the track for these companies?

 

Intamin's steel coaster track and vehicles are made by Stakotra, a Slovakian company. My understanding (which may be missing some elements) is that they acquired a portion of Intamin quite some time ago and thus have operated as Intamin's sole supplier for those fields. Zierer, Gerstlauer, Huss (prior to the bankruptcy) and Maurer Sohne also have rides fabricated by Stakotra, though not necessarily exclusively as I understand it. Intermountain Lift in Utah does the fabrication for Premier and a few of the other US firms.

 

Think of it like this from now on: If you go to a big condo development, do you think the developer designs the building? Nah, he pays architects for that. Does he construct the building? Nah, he pays a construction company for that. The developer doesn't source the materials himself, they don't build the appliances inside the condos, they probably don't pay to have custom handles and switches and stuff and instead someone goes through catalogs and on searches to find materials. Theme park rides are no different at any - and I mean ANY - park. Even the almighty Disney had to outsource the actual design and fabrication of all their rides, mostly to Arrow (though most "disney historians" give Arrow zero credit), and they still do even now.

Disney's new coasters are all Vekoma.

 

We're all aware of this. He's referring to Disney's early years. Ed Morgan and Karl Bacon from Arrow had their hands in tons of Disney's most iconic attractions. They were interviewed at one point by Robert Reynolds and it was published in a book called Roller Coasters, Flumes and Flying Saucers. You know I'm not one to dork out too much but I highly recommend giving it a read.

At the end he said "and they even still do now" and I thought he was saying Arrow still built Disney rides not the outsourcing. Opps my bad.

[DoubleDown]

Hopefully it's better than the other Giovanolas because those are garbage imo

Granted I haven't been in years but I like Goliath, my only gripe is the MCBR and it's to short.

 

Goliath is one of the parks most popular rides by the general public, still to this day, but it really does not require a ride from me when I visit. Reason being it could have been such a monumentally better coaster and unfortunately Six Flags jumped on the "longest and fastest (coaster on) a closed-circuit roller coaster in the world" record in 2000 instead of worrying about ride quality and now we're all paying for it. Mind you this is a record they held for 4 months and two days (Taken by Millenium Force). From what I have heard they can't stop it from being "too" fast, which is why they deal with the Ghostrider come to an almost complete stop MCBR.

 

Imagine if they would have skipped on it, waited, and went with something like a Millenium Force style ride which would have undoubtedly worked in the same area (which would have also allowed a tunnel and a rise over Colossus). I really think Intamin could have built a much better ride. But the public eats Goliath up, so the park as far as they are concerned is no worse for the wear.

[LiftThrill]

Hey, Goliath and Titan serve the same purpose - steal lines from the nearby RMC so I can ride it more times. Oh, and being a credit helps too.

[coloradocoasterguy]

Hopefully it's better than the other Giovanolas because those are garbage imo

Granted I haven't been in years but I like Goliath, my only gripe is the MCBR and it's to short.

 

Goliath is one of the parks most popular rides by the general public, still to this day, but it really does not require a ride from me when I visit. Reason being it could have been such a monumentally better coaster and unfortunately Six Flags jumped on the "longest and fastest (coaster on) a closed-circuit roller coaster in the world" record in 2000 instead of worrying about ride quality and now we're all paying for it. Mind you this is a record they held for 4 months and two days (Taken by Millenium Force). From what I have heard they can't stop it from being "too" fast, which is why they deal with the Ghostrider come to an almost complete stop MCBR.

 

Imagine if they would have skipped on it, waited, and went with something like a Millenium Force style ride which would have undoubtedly worked in the same area (which would have also allowed a tunnel and a rise over Colossus). I really think Intamin could have built a much better ride. But the public eats Goliath up, so the park as far as they are concerned is no worse for the wear.

Goliath is the only true hyper in California. Yes, Xcelerator is 205 feet tall but it's not a "hyper coaster" because Intamin classifies it's 200 foot non-launched, closed circuit coasters as Mega Coasters because "hyper" really is a type of coaster, not just a height. So being that Goliath is the only "hyper" that 99% of Southern Californians have ever experienced to them it's an amazing ride. But for anyone who has ridden any B&M or Intamin hyper it's kinda bland.

[fraroc]

Hopefully it's better than the other Giovanolas because those are garbage imo

Granted I haven't been in years but I like Goliath, my only gripe is the MCBR and it's to short.

 

Goliath is one of the parks most popular rides by the general public, still to this day, but it really does not require a ride from me when I visit. Reason being it could have been such a monumentally better coaster and unfortunately Six Flags jumped on the "longest and fastest (coaster on) a closed-circuit roller coaster in the world" record in 2000 instead of worrying about ride quality and now we're all paying for it. Mind you this is a record they held for 4 months and two days (Taken by Millenium Force). From what I have heard they can't stop it from being "too" fast, which is why they deal with the Ghostrider come to an almost complete stop MCBR.

 

Imagine if they would have skipped on it, waited, and went with something like a Millenium Force style ride which would have undoubtedly worked in the same area (which would have also allowed a tunnel and a rise over Colossus). I really think Intamin could have built a much better ride. But the public eats Goliath up, so the park as far as they are concerned is no worse for the wear.

Goliath is the only true hyper in California. Yes, Xcelerator is 205 feet tall but it's not a "hyper coaster" because Intamin classifies it's 200 foot non-launched, closed circuit coasters as Mega Coasters because "hyper" really is a type of coaster, not just a height. So being that Goliath is the only "hyper" that 99% of Southern Californians have ever experienced to them it's an amazing ride. But for anyone who has ridden any B&M or Intamin hyper it's kinda bland.

 

I always thought it was the other way around. That "Megacoaster" was the model and "Hypercoaster" is the classification.

[coloradocoasterguy]

Goliath is the only true hyper in California. Yes, Xcelerator is 205 feet tall but it's not a "hyper coaster" because Intamin classifies it's 200 foot non-launched, closed circuit coasters as Mega Coasters because "hyper" really is a type of coaster, not just a height. So being that Goliath is the only "hyper" that 99% of Southern Californians have ever experienced to them it's an amazing ride. But for anyone who has ridden any B&M or Intamin hyper it's kinda bland.

 

I always thought it was the other way around. That "Megacoaster" was the model and "Hypercoaster" is the classification.

 

It's weird actually. Technically any coaster over 200 feet is classified as a hyper. Even stratas and gigas are hypers by broad definition.

 

The first closed circuit coaster to reach 200 feet was Magnum XL-200 in 1989. Cedar Point and it's designer, Arrow Dynamics coined the term "hyper coaster". MXL200 at the same time kinda set the bar as to what was a hyper coaster; tall, long, and fast with no inversions.

 

However, MXL200 was not the first roller coaster to reach 200 feet. That distinction goes to Moonsault Scramble, an obscure now defunct Vekoma shuttle coaster that debuted in Japan in 1983. It featured two inversions in the form of a pretzel knot and topped out at 229.7 feet. But no one considers it to be a hyper because while it fits the broad definition of 200 feet, it doesn't fit the narrow definition of tall, long, and fast with no inversions.

 

Even Wikipedia makes note of shuttle coasters, launch coasters, dive coasters, 4D coasters, wooden coasters, and coasters with inversions as not fitting that narrow definition. And Intamin simply deals with any confusion regarding the issue by only calling their coasters which fit the narrow definition "hypers".

[youtu_be]

[/youtu_be] Edited June 27, 2016 by coloradocoasterguy

[Paradox]

That distinction goes to Moonsault Scramble, an obscure now defunct Vekoma shuttle coaster with two inversions that debuted in Japan in 1983.

 

Moonsault Scramble was actually built by Meisho, not Vekoma.

[coloradocoasterguy]

That distinction goes to Moonsault Scramble, an obscure now defunct Vekoma shuttle coaster with two inversions that debuted in Japan in 1983.

 

Moonsault Scramble was actually built by Meisho, not Vekoma.

 

Vekoma designed it.

[gerstlaueringvar]

Classification isn't that important IMO. Real innovative designs often blur the line between different classifications and make people discuss where they fit into.

Is RMC wood or steel?

Is Kaernan a hyper?

Is Wonder Mountain's Guardian a coaster or a dark ride?

Is Gerstlauer's vertical lift a new category of lifting mechanism?

Is the 153 degrees turn on Outlaw Run an inversion?

Is American Eagle a racing coaster or dueling coaster?

Who cares?

[coloradocoasterguy]

Classification isn't that important IMO. Real innovative designs often blur the line between different classifications and make people discuss where they fit into.

Is RMC wood or steel?

Is Kaernan a hyper?

Is Wonder Mountain's Guardian a coaster or a dark ride?

Is Gerstlauer's vertical lift a new category of lifting mechanism?

Is the 153 degrees turn on Outlaw Run an inversion?

Is American Eagle a racing coaster or dueling coaster?

Who cares?

Are we talking Topper Track or I Box? TT are wooden. IB are not.

 

Gerstlauer didn't invent the vertical lift. Chance did with the Toboggan ride.

 

AE is a racing coaster since the two tracks mirror each other side by side.

 

Why aren't over banked turns inversions but inclined loops are? Because OT don't LOOP! Inversions are where the track exits the element a complete 360 from from it entered in one form or another. Think about it. Corkscrews, each half of a cobra roll, loops including inclined, zero G rolls, pretzels, Immelmann, dive loop, etc etc.

 

Karnan is technically a hyper because it's over 200 feet

 

 

 

WM is gravity powered and has railed track therefore it's a coaster.

Edited June 28, 2016 by coloradocoasterguy

[gerstlaueringvar]

^You need to look into how Euro Fighter/Infinity coaster lift works and AE isn't mirrored at some parts of the track.

 

I was just listing some discussions about classifications that happened before, I mostly agree with you anyway.

[coloradocoasterguy]

^You need to look into how Euro Fighter/Infinity coaster lift works and AE isn't mirrored at some parts of the track.

 

I was just listing some discussions about classifications that happened before, I mostly agree with you anyway.

AE is side by side except for the helix approach and station approach/departure which are mirrored. Dueling coasters are essentially two separate rides like Dueling Dragons at USOF. The two tracks of AE don't really offer a different ride from the other. At least that's my understanding.

 

As for the Euro Fighter lift I'm not referring to how it works. I'm referencing the vertical aspect.

 

I know you were simply referencing the topics and I answered them.