Trackmaster

Did you ride Mako in the back? Its definitely a back of the seat coaster. And I've been out of the game for several years, so I haven't ridden the new wave of B&M coasters. Maybe if you've ridden a bunch of them, its pretty ordinary for you now. And for Kraken, maybe I just have a lower threshold for my tolerance for roughness. And I thought Manta was great. I respected the ride for sure. But for some reason, I didn't really want to spam re-rides on it with no lines like I did for Mako. I think I just really didn't like when you dangle on the last block on your chest before they let you back in the station.

I think that Kraken was pretty rough though. It'll be interesting to see what you think as you rode it back when it was new. I heard it was great years ago.

Six Flags has already shown they are willing to invest in dark rides with the Justice League attractions they built. As such, they must feel that such attractions are a worthy enough investment, even at a park where the cost of a season pass can be <$100 per year. Further, similar to roller coasters, dark rides can be cloned and designed to fit in a minimal footprint accessible to multiple parks allowing the design costs and production costs to be spread over multiple parks/installations. I'm not expecting/asking for a completely original attraction with a crazy queue to rival Disney/Universal. All I'm saying is that if the Mall of America can build a flying theater type attraction, there's no reason Six Flags couldn't as well (especially if the plan was to put it in multiple parks). That's debatable. I find an attraction like DarKastle at BGE, Spiderman at IOA, or Flight of Passage at DAK to be exceptionally re-ridable. Further, with a screen based attraction, if you do feel there is an issue with attrition, you can simply change up the film/motions and have (essentially) a completely new experience. On top of that, SFA currently has VERY little you can do while it's raining and limited options for when it is cold. Having a dark ride would give guests at least SOMETHING to do under those conditions. Interesting point. I do agree that over time, I've become more appreciative of better theming and more rides with immersive storylines. If SF could figure out how to make them in a cost effective way, they could be great additions to the park.

I'd love to see it replaced by SOME sort of dark ride. A Justice League clone would be welcome, but it seems like they are done with those. I'd love to see Six Flags build a flying theater style attraction (same style of attraction as Soarin' at Disney). There are LOTS of manufacturers now that have developed lots of different types of hardware to provide that sort of experience and I really think it would go over well at Six Flags. Nonetheless, I'm not holding my breath for a new dark ride at SAF anytime soon (though it would be nice if they proved me wrong!) Keep some things in mind: 1. Heavily themed attractions tend to be more expensive than outside thrill rides with "implied" theming. The attential to detail, development, getting everything together is just generally more expenisve than plopping down a flat ride or other basic attraction that's less involved than a roller coaster. When you have the corporate back of Disney, and you're charging a family $500 a day in ticket prices alone, maybe $1,000 a day with a hopper wand and hotel fare, you are going to need to put a lot of money into top attractions. When you're dealing with a park where guests by a $70 season pass, and get 5-6 times a year, you can't be putting that much money into attractions off of $20 a visit from guests. 2. Themed attractions are not as re-ridable, as you understand the plotline early on and get the trick after awhile. In contrast, rides that are based off of a physical experience can be ridden more often potentially, it may depend on the guest. At Disney, probably over half of the guests on a given visit won't come back to the park for 10 years, as they live anywhere in America, or the world really. They can get the gist of the plotlines, be suprised by the twists, and Disney will probably have all new attractions when they come back (while keeping the core rides in tact like Space Mountain). With Six Flags, their guests live within a 30 mile radius, and they'll be back often with their cheap season passes. They better be showing the same crappy looped video to them every time they visit.

I should have said it as I would have no problem with the statement. I find myself asking the same questions often. Although I do feel confidently that Mako is the best "traditional" coaster in at least Florida. Several other themed coasters at Disney and Universal are BETTER rides I think but they are a completely different ride experience so I tend to exclude them. I feel like Disney and Universal are both very fun start to stop experiences throughout the whole day, but they don't exactly have coasters I can point to and say "these are world class great coasters." Disney has a lot of interesting experiences, shows, and interactive attractions that add up to a great day at the park. The rides are enjoyable for most part too. But if you plopped a ride of Thunder Mountain or Rock n' Roller Coaster in the middle of a basic Six Flags park as "Joker: the Jinx of Doom" with a parking lot in the background, you'd be bored pretty easily. I like Space Mountain, but I don't feel comfortable giving it a ranking of any sort. And for Universal, the Hulk is great, as is RRR but besides that, none of the coasters really stand out. But again, with all that there is to do there, I can still have very fun days there.

Mako, yesterday. I had walked over to Antarctica area, and was going to ride Mako again, but then it starting pouring and I decided to head out.

I think that it might depend on where you're going on Monday. Are you flying out for this trip? Are you going home Monday? If so, where do you live? KD, HP, and SFGadv are all great parks, so you won't be too disappointed with any of those choices. A key factor should be geographic convenience. Clearly, if you need to be heading down south anyway, going to KD. If you need to venture up north, SFGadv is the obvious choice. If you're flying out of DC, maybe stay local with HP. SFGadv is a huge park with a lot of marquee attractions, but not much has been added. Maybe a good approach would be to wait it out until they add something new. KD has an elite Giga coaster and an elite RMC. The rest of the park is pretty solid too. If you can make it to KD, I'd see what you could do to make that a reality.

No no no. Not my favorite coaster, probably not top five. Just in Florida. Like you, its very tough to rank coasters. I prefer to rank parks if anything, but even that's tough. It was SROS@SFNE at one point in time, but it hasn't really aged great and the new restraints don't help. Last time I rode it was when it was Bizarro, and hated the VR. Ironically, it may just be Wicked Cyclone now (as they're both in the same, run of the mill park, when I've actually been to tons of parks), as its the only RMC I've been on. I guess until I knock out by big rust belt/Canada trip it stands at MF or WC. I don't like to make expectations before riding a coaster or anything like that... and I'm firm on that. So let's just say that SeVen may just end up giving everything else a run for its money. But who knows, I don't like to speak authoritatively about coasters I've haven't even ridden once. I'm sure that if Florida ever got an RMC, it would would give Mako a run for its money as #1 in Florida.

Admittedly I love Mako to death but you better watch your mouth around here with statements like that. You know, if they had left the trims off the return camelback, I don’t think that would be such a bold statement ... I already love that coaster to death too. The only benefit to that trim brake, is that B&M assumed that it was safe to have a sharp drop after it. So in the back, you get the best airtime of the ride on it, as you're going through the steep drop so fast. But anyways, its bizarre to have it on a two train coaster. Completely unneeded.

Well, I've been out of the game for several years. I was a big enthusiast in my teen years, off and on for about 10 years, and have been getting more recently into it. My coaster is 233, but many of them I haven't ridden in a while. I've only ridden three B&M hypers, and I could see how if you've ridden a lot, you would be a bit de-sensitized by them. I thought that it was just OK as I rode it in the middle first, then the front -- I was getting a little skeptical by that point -- but then I rode it on the back. From that point on, I know every lap was going to have to be in the back. Its an airtime machine back there. Even after the MCBR you get great forces. So maybe when I say "undisputed" its an existential battle within my facilities and mind that I'm referring to. I know that everyone has their own preferences.

No offense, but that's not irony, that's just stupidity. I sound like a broken record by this point about this, but THIS is exactly why you don't buy skip-the-lines in advance. What makes it worse is if you just poked around a bit on this thread most people would have told you that you wouldn't need it @ Seaworld. Admittedly I love Mako to death but you better watch your mouth around here with statements like that. Well, I hurt my knee the other day, and wanted to whatever I could to minimize standing around. This was an extreme case where there NO lines, but usually on dead days, I'll at least wait here and there. I recently moved to Miami from Boston, so I guess that the Orlando parks are kind of my home parks, despite how long it takes to get around Miami traffic, and how long it takes to get there. I appreciate the hell out of the theming of a lot of the Disney rides, but let's face it, from a raw coaster standpoint, there isn't exactly a whole lot of airtime, speed, or intensity. The only coaster that I could see in the argument as a truly great coaster in the same category as Mako may be Cheetah Run, but I haven't been to BGT since it was added. I just love Maverick so much that I want to give any blitz coaster a chance to match its greatness. Unfortunately there aren't a lot of wooden coasters, so there isn't a lot of room from RMC converstion, but I think that with Sea World's light crowds, they would be an excellant candidate for a raptor. I could also see it fitting in well with the marine life theme.

I visited this park yesterday and everything was an absolute walk on. Ironically I brought the quick queue, and it was so worthless that the line attendants stopped even checking. I pretty much only used it so that I walk in through the shorter queue and not walk by unused queue lines. What do you guys think that this mostly attributable to? 1. The fact that it is a Monday (but 71.4% of all days of the week are not on the weekend, so I'm not sure how much weight this holds). 2. The fact that its an inconvenient time of the year for most families... kids are still in school, and finals are coming up, so its not a highly prioritized time of the year to travel. 3. The forecast was for storms... but it always rains in Florida. It'll usually rain for 15-20 minutes and go away, this happens almost daily when the summer starts. 4. The most intriguing option...: has Blackfish and the other smearing against SeaWorld been hurting its imagine and making it less popular? 5. Or.... other? Something I'm not thinking about. It seems a little odd that the park from what I'm reading is usually pretty deserted. The admission price is still somewhat high, so its not like they're slashing prices to get people in. It pretty much as the undisputed best coaster in Florida (Mako). Orlando is a hub for people to visit to go to parks. Which leads to another intriguing option brought up by The Florida Project: 6. Does Disney dominate Central Florida SO MUCH these days that people are more likely to just stay on Disney's campus these days and more or less never leave to explore the rest of the area?

To enthusiasts, maybe. For parks, they're a bargain. Cloning a ride is cheaper and faster, also the GP will most likely adore it, and won't even be aware of the clones. And those who do find out about said clones, mainly through YouTube videos ( ), will then proceed to spam comments like "dIs RiDe Is A cOpY oF *insert SLC here* aT *insert park here* *insert a trillion emojis here*". But the idea is that if we're going to take the time to talk on a message board about coasters, than you're probably an enthusiast. So why should anybody on here be supportive of traveling halfway across the country to ride some basic ride that they could probably ride at their home park? I reserve the right to judge people whose patronization habits have a negative affect on myself and other enthusiasts. And, I'm skeptical that cloning is a great idea for the bottom line. Over time, the industry should progress, technology should get better, designs should get better, etc. If you're paying full freight for a coaster that is basically a mid-90's style and quality design, you've overpaid for a mediocre coaster that isn't going to help deliver a great experience to guests. And, give the GP some credit. They go to parks when they travel sometimes. If they go to a park that has the same coaster that they can ride back home, it rubs off very poorly on the park, and may sour them on the entire industry. It makes going to amusement parks seem cheap and tawdry. So really, it has a regressive effect across the entire industry. And also think about terrain matters. Who are you going to use a cookie cutter design, when you should be making elaborate and specific use of the terrain of the park, forestry, and natural features of the park? These are all questions that contradict that existence of clones if you ask me.

They're just a waste of space. You ride one, you ride them all. Why am I going to get excited about riding a coaster that's at 40 other parks other than to pad the count? Its basically like riding a scrambler or a swinging ship.

I think that if you're going to be at the park for three days, the Front of the Line Pass isn't going to be necessary. 36 hours at the park is plenty of time to ride everything and have re-rides. I'd only recommend the line-cutting add-ons if you have a limited amount of time at the park. And in regards to the atmosphere, I think that you'll be very satisfied. Its a rare park that has big national chain level thrill rides with a small mom and pop style charm and friendliness. You should also stop over to King's Island if you have a chance too. Also, checking out Six Flags Ohio's ruins can be a delightful and exhilarating experience as well. If you're a history buff and love excitement in your life.

^ This. Then the supporting cast is so good too, it's not like Carowinds or CW, where everything else kinda falls off after the top 2-3. It's just a really excellent park, and I'm glad I live so close. Yeah, its come a long way in the world. I think that the park had some duds earlier on and were a little stunted by them, kind of like Hypersonic. I think in the 80's and 90's it was a top tier park as well for its time. Conceivably, if Hypersonic was a hit, and they had kept building, it could have been a great park. Now that you have the additions of Twisted Timbers, i305, and Dominator its certainly coming up in the world.

"I'm not a member of the GP" Coaster enthusiasts who aren't employed by a park or a roller coaster engineering firm.

I guess I'm still feeling out how things are done here. I'll be respectful of the wishes of the mods. I would have thought that its safe enough to start a thread when the only one that's close to your topic was started 8 years ago, and has had no activity in years. But unused queuing capacity has always been an interest of mine. I just find it hilarious. As I mentioned, I probably see more of it, as I generally plan to go parks Monday-Friday to avoid lines, and I never really see the Saturday crowds. I just realistically couldn't see myself waiting for a whole house of switchbacks for something like the Joker's Jinx. Although, Flight of Fear, which is basically the same ride indoors with a block does seem to get massive lines, and uses the outdoor switchbacks. I really feel like if you get to the point that your park is getting 2-3 hour lines for rides, you need to take a look at virtual queuing options. Some rides have limited capacity, we get that, but there are logical ways to get your 800 people per hour through without them being penned up like cattle together for two hours.

Generally, the best approach to eliminate head banging is to literally pull yourself forward and hold your head in front of the restraints. The movement is mostly side to side, so if there's nothing to bang onto, there's no real problem. For me, the issue with the headbangers is just the antiquated designs that hurt the whole body and make the ride unpleasant. B&M, RMC, and other new age smooth coasters aren't just superior because of the superior restraints, but its mostly because the transitions and the contraction are far superior. B&M loopers generally have hard OTSR's that would cause head banging, but the rides are smooth enough that it prevents it. Even if a coaster like the Great American Scream Machine (SFGadv) or the original Steel Phantom had lapbars, you would still feel the jerkiness of the ride and the uncomfortableness of the transitions.

For me, I see a lot, as I usually go out of my may to go to parks on Monday through Friday. As a kid, my home park was SFA, so there was an abundance of egregiously unused queue areas and houses. I think that in my life, I see them use the Joker's Jinx extra queue space once, and even in that case, they weren't snaking through. I had been riding that ride since its 2nd or 3rd year in operation. Even SROS never really used the extra queue space. I think that the separate house next to Roar at one time was intended to be used as a queue house for Roar before they realized how unrealistic that would be, and turned it into a Fright Fest attraction. I think that a very notorious example is Mean Streak. I think that it has two full houses of queue space, practically the same size as Millenium Force's, and they weren't touched in years. Granted, I could see them becoming a way of life, and they may need to add another when SeVen is up and running. I also think that a lot of Arrow loopers tend to have several houses of untouched queues. The parks thought that they would be marquee attractions in the 80's and early 90's -- and I'm sure they were, long before I was into coasters or possibly even born -- but the lines (if the coasters have not already been dismantled) are easily bypassed by guests as the coasters haven't aged well and guests are more interested in newer, better designers. What are some of the best entries that people can think of for this list?

In addition to the reassurance of the "1 click rule" just remember that with almost any restraint on a major roller coaster, you can't get out of them even if you tried. This is especially true, but its generally true with lap bars as well. With some kiddie coasters, and older coasters this may not be true, but anything that's made for adults and has been made in the last several decades will cleverly use the lapbar, as well as the positioning of the seat to make sure you're not going anywhere. I guess the only thing to be concerned about are some of the rides that are a little less restraints. Truth be told, most accidents occur on rides like water slides, as there's no full-proof restraint system. If somebody wants to be stupid and intentionally fly off the edge, you can't really stop them. I think that many coasters put sample seats in front of the queue these days anyway, so you can test and see if you can realistically get your restraint to close.

B&M pretty much has just a few basic coasters, and even they're pretty much all the same. The only difference is the position of your body in relation to the track. And now that they've stopped doing stand-ups, you pretty much choose between a hyper, a floorless, and a flyer. I would have added a the invert, but its been years since they've built them regularly, they're pretty much off the market. A great park should have 1-3 B&M coasters to keep guests occupied and entertained (they're great for capacity as well, with three across and usually three trains), but the playmakers and superstars are going to be your RMC and Intamin coasters. Really, RMC is the gold standard, and is really what you compare everything to now, but the reason that we even compare Intamin to B&M is that Intamin does have some maintenance issues, and has produced some duds. They also have a pretty expansive company that has manufactured a lot besides just big ticket coasters. They're both European too, so keep that in mind. It irks me that Liechtenstein doesn't actually have any roller coasters, and Switzerland barely has any. Not very good for America's balance of trade. And you would think that roller coaster designer would be a fun job that a lot of Americans would like to have. It seems a send to be shipping that overseas. I'd rather ship out the mundane jobs that nobody wants to do.

On my first ride, one woman had to exit the train. Now, I consider myself fat (im actual american standard obese). I am 5'8" and weight is between 255-265 at times. I had to get a push or two to get completely green light-ed but I was still able to ride. My weight is fairly distributed and I do have some muscle mass as well so I can see how it can be a problem with some larger people riding. As far as the ride . . . I have said, even from the beginning before it was confirmed it was getting converted, Hurlers layout would be the weakest layour RMC would have to work. It's basically a coaster with 4 right hand turns and some airtime hills after the initially drop. I have to consider that while riding it and can only compare it to what it replaced honestly. I think they did a good job with revitalizing this coaster by building up on the current layout and structure. Loved the first drop-version while riding in the front, liked the 3 back-to-back airtime hiils as they were not as violent as some coasters I have been on, LOVED LOVED the middle part of the ride (from the cutback to the first 90 degree turn). Aside from the drop-verison, I didn't really feel the stomach-in-throat feeling. There was plenty of ejector air, especially on the three hills, but not much "drop tower" like air as far as my two rides went. However the two sweet spots for that, to me, where before and the drop after the photo spot. They put that in a very sweet spot! NOW should carowinds follow suit? Not right now. I think hurler at carowinds has a different condition and among different company than KD's. KD still has 2 more adult size wooden coasters so hurler really isnt a major loss. If I ran the world, I would ONLY convert hurler under the condition a new wooden coaster were to be built prior to it happening. And I wouldn't want both RMC hurlers to have the same layouts, but I would keep the middle section the same lol, its damn near perfect. I think that Thunder Road would have made a great candidate to be RMC'd. I guess that maybe Cedar Fair just thought that RMC was a Six Flags passing fad at the time, and not the future of roller coasters like it is now. In fact, I think that Rebell Yell would have been a candidate than Hurler anyways. The dueling tracks give he ride the chance for the dueling stalls. And, it would be a great way to get rid of a reminder of the Confederacy that can violate some people's safe spaces and trigger microaggressions.

the park is gonna be dead. everyone is heading over to KD for the opening of a RMC, Twisted Timbers. Whats the point to go to SFgadv for nothing new. you know NYC and Philly are full of people who don't give two sh*ts about Twisted Timbers or Kings Dominion right? It might not be that far fetched. I don't think that the Basic B---- GPer is going to be bothered to make it for opening weekend in cold temperate anyway. The most likely guests are the diehards. So they might be willing to make the drive.

I think that its a park that's moved backwards over the years. Its removed a lot of great attractions, and the additions haven't been that great. Some of the rides they've removed: Two Face: the Flip Side -- I find Invertigos to be far better than standard boomerangs and even Super Invertigos. Much smoother than SLC's, and you get up to 5 g's on them. The idea of being able to see other people was cool too. And you basically have twice as many unobstructed views and first row experiences. Iron Eagle -- A great flat ride, and a rare one too. It was basically an earlier generation model of a Huss Top Spin. Except much taller and more intense. Typhoon Sea Coaster -- Yes, yes... NOT A ROLLER COASTER. But the only log flume at the park, and really the only dark ride as well. It was unreliable and required a huge staff, but it was great. Kypton's Comet -- Not a huge fan of flat rides, but this one was pretty decent. Ocotpus -- I think I heard this one was removed as well. Not a huge fan of rides, but this was at least better than a standard scrambler. The Enterprise (forgot the name) -- Again not a huge fan of flat rides, but why did they get rid of it? From what I've seen, they've received some lame Wild Mouse and Iron Wolf. Why?? Stop getting hand me downs. The park probably peaked out in 2001.