ZeroGravity55

Great TR. You really should have spent some time in SS. A lot of people would argue that Mammoth and Wildebeest are the two best rides on that property. Here are a couple of questions I saw that were answered on the parks FB page. The second one isn't really important, just something I found interesting. 1.) Season Passes for 2016 go on sale Saturday. 2.) I never realized this, but the park is making a killing on their cabanas. Somebody asked if there were any cabanas available for today and it's a Wednesday and the park responded and said no. So I decided to do a little math just to see how much HW is roughly making off these things. HW has 33 cabanas and they're charging $179 for one. You get a pepsi mini fridge, (which I believe is stocked with water), your own personal space to put your stuff, it provides an area to get shade and relax, and you have the option of having meals delivered to the cabana (that is at a separate charge). Now they're rented out on a Wednesday and I know it's the peak of the season, but it's still mid-week. So I'm going to assume that they rent all of these things out everyday for the last three weeks of July. 33 cabanas at $179 is nearly $6000 in one day. Over a 21 day period, that's just a bit above $124000. Now that is just an assumption, as I don't know if they have or will rent out their cabanas for 21 days in a row. That just gives you a little bit of prospective on how much the park can make off these things and that's just a 3 week period. These things are up for rental whenever the waterpark is open. It's amazing to me how much people will pay for a bit of privacy, but knowing how crowded the park gets at this time of year, I guess it really shouldn't surprise me.

Actually, If I recall correctly, Will Koch did a interview at one time and stated that Indianapolis is the park's primary market. The beauty of HW's location is that they have no central market. They can pick choose where they want to market their park at. Where HW wants to go and where KK is trying to go are two completely different things. Are both going to be successful? We shall see. I hope KK is successful, I just hope they aren't hindered by the state fair board down the road. All I know is that right now, KI, KK, and HW are building world class attractions that are within a reasonable driving distance of my location and I hope all three parks keep building them for a long time.

One reason why HW will always hold the advantage over KK is that HW has what a lot of parks don't have, a ton of effective marketing tools. I know the general consensus among us enthusiasts is that the Golden Ticket Awards are not a true representation of what the actual truth is when comes to what rides are better, ext. The only problem with that is while we don't put any stock into them, the gp does, because they don't know any better and why should they? The Golden Ticket Awards sort of sounds important and if the parks who win them make them important, the people who visit those parks will believe they're true. HW has won 44 Golden Ticket Awards, which is the most by any park. HW is able to say that they have the best rides, they have the cleanest park, and they have friendliest staff. They can then validate all of that by showing they have the hardware to back it up. Their biggest marketing tool is all the "freebies" that they offer. The word "free'', is the most effective word in marketing in my opinion. When you combine those two marketing tools together, you then create the sensation that people are really getting a tremendous value. People look at it and go not only do they have world class rides that have been voted the best in the world, look at all the "freebies" they offer. It really is a great value and that's why it's so effective. I'm not sure HW could have got to where they are today without both of theses marketing tools. The only way one would be effective is if they had the other to offer with it. You need the world class rides to bring the people in, and the freebies, cleanliness, and friendliness keep them coming back. Now I get to a lot of my personal opinion on why KK will never actually compete with HW. When Ed Hart and his company presented his original proposal to revitalize KK in 2012, he put a report in his proposal showing the attendance numbers from the rival parks (which were HW and KI) and how he thought he would be able to compete with both parks. Here's what they said about HW: http://www.scribd.com/doc/110767374/KKRC-ResponseOct2012w On page 21 Now I understand that was written in a way to show why they thought they could compete with HW and I do think they were right on a lot of accounts. I do however think that this shows they might have underestimated HW's ability to add a major attractions (such as TB). I think TB can be viewed as a wake up call to not only KK, but the rest of the industry that HW's business model is legit and that they're bringing in enough money to add attractions like TB. Now was the KK group right that HW needed a major thrill attraction like TB to continue to grow their attendance? Yes. What they didn't realize was that HW knew this as well and they were just buying their time to not only make sure they got the right coaster, but to make sure they made the improvements inside the park so that the park can handle more guests when they add the coaster. This is where Wildebeest and Mammoth come in, plus the expanded SS entrance plaza. Those who are patient and do things the right way usually reek the benefits from doing so and think HW is finding that out this year. So I guess what I'm getting at is that now that HW has shown the ability to had a major attraction like TB and are now reeking the benefit from it, they're going to have the ability to continue to add these types of attractions. Given the current situation KK is in with state board, how will they be able to compete with two parks around them that are adding 20 million dollar attractions? While they might have more bad ass rides in LR and SC, do they have the ability to market them in such a way that can compete with how KI markets Diamondback or Banshee or how HW markets Thunderbird or The Voyage (remember The Voyage has the hardware and accolades)? If they don't have the budget to do a decent announcement for a ride like SC, how are they going to have the budget to market it against the rides of HW or KI? That's a big reason why I don't they will be able to compete with HW in the long run, but what do I know lol. I do know that all of this competition is good for us enthusiasts in the area, though. KK is getting a RMC. What's next for KI? A giga? Then that begs the question, what's next for HW? They can go in a lot of directions. The future is bright!

I've seen a couple of posts on FB suggesting that the park ran out of parking space today (I should say that people on FB tend to make things sound worse than they really are). I wouldn't be surprised if HW set an attendance record today, although the park would never tell anyone if they did. They might have to look into expanding The Legend lot, which could set them back in their efforts to get the lot paved with asphalt. I believe they have some wooded area left which they can remove and add more parking. Not sure how much more they can add though.

Had a couple of these tonight. Thought it was appropriate for this site lol

^ I have a feeling she is thoroughly enjoying the fact that you're listening to it over and over again. It's been a year since she's gotten to torture us enthusiasts lol

Getting off the topic of The Voyage (as I'm sure we'll have this exact same discussion again in a few months as usual), we're one day away from the one year anniversary of the announcement of Thunderbird. This has me thinking of when we might see some hints for what the park is doing in 2016. It will be the parks 70th anniversary and I can't remember a year where the park didn't add anything. I'm assuming we'll see some small things to improve guest experience. I'm hoping that they do something with the PP area, whether they remove it or put something in its place, it needs to go.

I try to look at the webcam every night around 8 p.m. just so I can see really cool views like this:

I'm a supporter of topper track on all three woodies. I think the only coaster that might receive topper track would be The Voyage. In my opinion, this will only happen when the park decides that there is nothing they can do make the ride better in terms of retracking and using the MCBR to slow the train down. I think HW takes great pride in taking care of their coasters and doing it all in-house. It's one of those small things that separates them from everyone else. I don't think the park will I-box The Voyage, as the ride means too much to them to alter the design in anyway. I only say that because Will Koch is listed as one of the designers.

The LSM's were already on Thunderbird's track when they were placed in the yard. As were the fins for the brakes. Also, The Launch, Station and Brake track for Thunderbird is essentially a I-beam with rails on it. Only two pieces of the track look like that, which probably makes it a brake run of some sorts. If you look, there are 2 pieces that have a square spine and it looks like a lift hill piece. There appears to be a opening slot in the middle where the chain would go (keep in mind the chain isn't pre-installed like the LSM's). It is probably for the dive coaster for Cedar Point as that track is the exact same color of the track that has the ridiculously huge spine. That tracks looks like it would be for the valley of a first drop on a dive machine. None of the wing riders pull enough positive g's in the valley's of their drops to warrant a spine that big. Thunderbird's track last year.

I would think that corporate would be understanding that this a very unique ride that has a ton of moving parts and things that all have to line up for it to run effectively at 100%. They probably knew going in that it would be awhile before all the kinks got worked out. Lets be completely honest here. The ride was probably opened before it was ready and it's hard to get everything at 100% when the park is open daily. They had to get it open because they advertised it for this Summer and they can't close it for extended periods of times because it's their main attraction that is drawing the biggest line.

I think it's hard to say that it will be similar to any other RMC. RMC has done an exceptional job at making their coasters different from one another. This is one of the more unique layouts they've gotten their hands on.

Whatever the problem is (if there is one), I'm sure B&M will work with CP or is working with CP to resolve the issue and it won't be a problem long term. It honestly kind of looks like a freak thing where all chips fell into place for the rollback to happen.

If there is no structure left, they're more than likely not using the other lift.

Can't wait to see what kind of crazy twisted looking airtime Alan Schilke has created with those high banking GCI turns.

The park should have all kinds of cool things up about their history next year. It will be HW's 70th anniversary. Edit: Speaking of the parks history, they shared this photo on Twitter for throwback Thursday: It's so weird to see Frightful not fully engulfed by The Legend. It's also really weird to see the park look so bare.

Or maybe just clearing room so they can get a crane and other large equipment in there?

The spine of the track isn't going to be that big throughout the whole ride. I would almost bet that the track with the huge spine is part of the pullout on the drop. This thing is going to be 230-250 (I have no clue what the rumored height is) feet tall with a near vertical drop, so it's gonna pull some g's, which warrants the huge spine. I think some people on here have looked at the color of track in a low quality photo taken from someones car where the track is sitting on gravel, and have decided they don't like the color of the track. Add this to the fact that some of these people are totally against CP getting a Dive Coaster, they're now reaching for reasons why it isn't CP's track. It's more probable than not that CP is getting a Dive coaster. It's more probable than not that this is the track going to CP. It's CP. It's one of the best settings in the industry. I'll say it again, once the ride is constructed, it will look absolutely stunning. I'm sure Cedar Point and Cedar Fair will also do a great job with area around the ride to enhance the look even more.

If it stays this hot, the dry park lines will be non-existent around noon when everyone files into the waterpark. I also wouldn't expect many people to stick out the full 11 hours the park is open with it being this hot.

^ I wouldn't judge the colors on sort of low quality pictures. Like most B&M's, once the ride is finally constructed and you see it in person, it'll look absolutely stunning.

^ The spine of the track seems like it is the biggest B&M has done yet. The ties appear to have a slight curve to them as well, which would be different from the other "big" dive machines that have the straight ties. It's hard to tell for sure since most of the track is flipped over. I'm wondering if B&M came up with a new track design to accommodate even wider trains, because CP opted to go with the new B&M restraints.

^ This one? I remember someone actually posted on the HW's FB and said that they were offended by this commercial. This person said that it was a slap in the face to people who actually did churn butter for a living or something like that. The guy went on to rant about promoting something over butter churning lessons. It was dumb and I got a good chuckle out of it.

^ See, it shouldn't be a problem, as they built their own separate substation to be used for the flywheels. They used the flywheels on media day and I would assume the first couple of weeks of the season. They brought in the generators about 4 weeks into testing as a back up option. They started using them sometime in May. I'm wondering if they started encountering problems when they opened the waterpark and started running Mammoth, Wildebeest, and Thunderbird at the same time. Maybe they need a bigger substation?

So I was looking at the webcams earlier yesterday and noticed that Thunderbird was down. So I went and checked out the parks FB and Twitter pages to see how many people were complaining. Only two people really complained and turns out The Legend was down too. Let me say this, I can't stand people who think the parks shut these rides down just because they want to and there isn't a legitimate reason for the ride being down. Now onto Thunderbird. The park was telling people that a important component to the ride need replaced and was being driven from Michigan and they hoped to open the ride mid-afternoon (which it did). This seemed a bit odd to me, as I was trying to think of what competent would be coming from Michigan for the ride itself, which really it could have been anything. So I checked webcam around 4:00, and the ride wasn't up and running yet, but I noticed something that peaked my interests. When you zoom in and out off certain views on the webcam, you can see the "back up" generators for TB. There was about 2 or 3 maintenance trucks parked next to the generators and several maintence guys from HW were walking down the hill. Now the generators fired up little bit after that, as I could see the exhaust smoke from them. I guess what I'm trying to get at is that maybe the important component coming from Michigan needed to run Thunderbird was for the generators. Now that is just speculation on my part, but if that is true, that must mean there really is something wrong with the flywheel setup. If you're just using the generators because you're paying to have them on site and diesel gas is cheap, why not just switch the system over to the flywheel setup when something goes wrong with the generators?