eugjackson

From what release of ridership numbers are you getting Bizarro did 1M and Rougarou didn't? Sounds crazy since Bizarro is a walk on to 5 to 10 minute wait in the middle of summer. The trains leave half empty most days I have been. Also, Mantis did 925K(official CP release numbers) it's last year and the conversion to Rougarou has increased it's popularity. Let's just say I'm highly highly skeptical.

Prediction, SF newest clone will be Skyline Attractions Skywarp. Just saw an interview with Skyline from IAAPA and they point blank said the ride cost 2M and also offer a higher cost LSM model. The ride has a small foot print. Totally can see any SF park without a Super loop getting a 2M model Skywarp. That would be MM, GAm, OT, LR, Mexico.

Who wants to wager it was one of the following: A) B&M trains for Magnum (There, I said it) B) Maybe confirming the RMC purchase C) Coaster #18 (It's #18 because Mean Streak is being RMCed, so the park still technically has 17 coasters, so a new one would make it 18) Also, if it's coaster 18, my thoughts: Please be RMC T-Rex, Please be RMC T-Rex, Please be RMC T-Rex, Please be RMC T-Rex... There are no RMC T-Rex's coming soon. The RMC interview at IAAPA they essentially confirmed parks have bought Raptors when it's ready and that Raptor's are going to be installed before T Rex's, which are still more in conceptual/testing mode. Won't be coming for years.

CF spends way more than SF yearly. Well we know CF invests more as a whole, but I'm speaking about ride additions specifically. 6 of SF parks are getting major additions for 2017, while only one CF park is getting a major addition (Mystic Timbers). LOL What you consider major attractions is clearly suspect.

CF spends way more than SF yearly.

They are spending a LOT more than 65 million in capital expenditures annually. These numbers are for all capital expenses not just rides. Except I have not seen numbers which separate attraction spending for any chain. 2014 - $108 Million 2015 - $114 Million 2016 - $123 Million I will admit this is still a lot lower than Cedar Fair which is spending around $150 - $175 million annually. But enough money is being spent every year to afford at least one or two major coasters in addition to all the flat rides and 4D coasters. Six Flags has decided instead of building large expensive coasters to go a different route and is spending the money on Battle for Metropolis. Which I have never seen an official number but based on the cost of other Sally attractions Battle for Metropolis will cost $10+ million each, and it is being installed at 3 different parks next year. Read the investor reports. You're citing total capital investment. As I posted those are the capital investment numbers which they say are about 9% of total revenue. The capital investments are 60% rides, 25% asset management, and 15% in park(non rides) So take 60% of the number...that's how you get 65M from 108M. 68M from 114M. Haven't found 123M but take your word for it making 74M for rides Tally up the 2017 additions: 3 Jl's at 10M is 30M 3 4D's at 6 -7M is 18 to 21M 2 Zamperla Discoveries at 3M each is 6M 1 Mega Disko at 1.4M 1 VR at 1M 1 skyscreamer - 5 to 6M 1 water coaster....never seen a price but high guess 5m 1 bonzai pipeline.....never seen a price but high guess 5m That totals 75M and the cost estimates of the water rides may be high.

They don't have the money. Based on current revenue they have about 65M per year on rides. You can't build 20-30M coasters at 1 park unless you give every other park virtually nothing additions. SF back in the day was building multiple big coasters yearly, though revenue didn't support it and it ended poorly. Their debt went out of control. leading to bankruptcy.

SF Memberships are an ill conceived idea. How do you figure? As a consumer I think they're amazingly convenient and given the price points they make a little more on those each year than a standard pass. I happily pay more though because it's so damn convenient. The fact that it's convenient for the consumer doesn't disprove what you're saying, but I'm curious what your basis is for saying it. It's a horrible business idea as it's priced lock. The original point I was discussing with the other poster was increasing revenue. Memberships where people can get a locked in $6/mth is not good business. SF in their own corporate investor presentation acknowledge they need and plan to increase prices and per visitor revenue. Memberships don't help.

SF Memberships are an ill conceived idea. They should kill memberships and just offer the same pricing on passes just with payment plans like CF.

It's good to see they see they need to increase prices, it's another thing to execute it. People have been very used to the cheap prices which is what has driven the increase in season passes from 30% to 56% since 2010. The question is how much can they increase it and how many pass holders could they lose. Increases price with less holders is fine with me, they just need to keep increasing revenue. I think passes should be like $100 for regular and $150 for gold as the sale price. Increase it by 25% as non sale price. Stop having sales that are virtually continuous. The investment breakdown shows why the ride additions have been cheap clones. 1.24B revenue with 9% capital investment is 108M and 60% of that is for rides means just 64.8M in rides across all the parks. That's how you get 8 cheap superloop clones, some parks occasionally getting just a VR, and no big coasters. It's virtually impossible to build a 20-25M coaster unless you screw a bunch of parks that yr. Revenue would have to explode to get to the 150M and 175M CF has invested the last couple years. SF would have to get revenue near 1.9B. Then, there is the fact stuff they should clone like Sky Rockets III they don't, should have been in 2 or 3 parks besides SFMM. Very cost effective and good ride. How about $80 for Regular and $100 for Gold? I would also not give away free tickets during Fright Fest. Also every park in the chain needs to add 1-2 new haunted houses every year to boost those Fright Fest bands. I also wouldn't be surprised if Six Flags added a Mardi Gras event to all their parks in 2018. Make more revenue from food and alcohol sales. Final Idea: Parks that are open on New Years Eve... Be open until New Years Eve. Why some parks close at 9pm is confusing to me. I'd have them open until 2am personally. $80 is too cheap for Regular unless they changed regular to only good at your home park. The fact regular for SF is good at all SF parks has to be monetized. CF in comparison, you need platinum to get into all CF parks. Also, many people are getting Gold for like $62, which is the price during the flash sale, that includes free parking at all parks,etc... SF is literally giving away the store with their pricing. The pricing for regular should vary by park more than it does, SF and GAdv can price at like $120. The yr round parks and those not yr round, but have HITP should cost more b/c there is more opportunity for usage. Gold passes should have a uniform price across parks, like CF does with platinum. SF also could add another level to dining plans that costs like $20-25 more if you want it to be good at all parks.

It's good to see they see they need to increase prices, it's another thing to execute it. People have been very used to the cheap prices which is what has driven the increase in season passes from 30% to 56% since 2010. The question is how much can they increase it and how many pass holders could they lose. Increases price with less holders is fine with me, they just need to keep increasing revenue. I think passes should be like $100 for regular and $150 for gold as the sale price. Increase it by 25% as non sale price. Stop having sales that are virtually continuous. The investment breakdown shows why the ride additions have been cheap clones. 1.24B revenue with 9% capital investment is 108M and 60% of that is for rides means just 64.8M in rides across all the parks. That's how you get 8 cheap superloop clones, some parks occasionally getting just a VR, and no big coasters. It's virtually impossible to build a 20-25M coaster unless you screw a bunch of parks that yr. Revenue would have to explode to get to the 150M and 175M CF has invested the last couple years. SF would have to get revenue near 1.9B. Then, there is the fact stuff they should clone like Sky Rockets III they don't, should have been in 2 or 3 parks besides SFMM. Very cost effective and good ride.

INVESTOR PRESENTATION NOV 2016. http://investors.sixflags.com/~/media/Files/S/SixFlags-IR/reports-and-presentations/ir-pres-november-2016.pdf Some interesting tidbits IMO: 56% of total attendance from season pass holders Foreign License deals..China, Vietnam, Dubai – $5-10MM EBITDA per park per year pre-opening – $10-20MM EBITDA per park per year post-opening Means foreign deals could be a cash cow..talk of 10 parks in China, 3 parks in Saudi, 2 in Vietnam, 1 in Dubai Admission per cap below others at $24.09 compared to FUN $28.12 and SEAS $37.69.. 5 step plan includes increased ticket prices Capital Investment Plan 9% of Revenue split with 60% towards rides, 15% in park, 25% asset management.

Update on Saudi Parks Six Flags aiming to open first Saudi park by 2021 http://www.reuters.com/article/us-saudi-leisure-six-flags-entmt-idUSKBN13A2Q1 Six Flags Entertainment Corp's (SIX.N) expansion into Saudi Arabia will probably include three parks, with the first to open in 2020 or 2021, its executive chairman said on Tuesday. The first park is tentatively planned for Riyadh, Saudi Arabia's conservative capital city, he said. Others may follow in Jeddah and at a resort elsewhere on the western Red Sea coast.

Only 5 parks don't have Larson Loops, MM, GAm, OT, LR. Mexico. The Skywarp is way better if you're going for that type of ride. Also, hopefully SF dumps 4D's and uses Mack Spin Extreme Coaster. Both compact rides and probably similar cost. Of course it's SF and they didn't build clones of sky rockets or sky rockets II's

The comment originally was about families, If they are all your kids they can share and save $27 over each having one. Personally I don't think CP season drink bottles are advisable. CP doesn't have holders at all rides, like SF. CP they bottles are not free with the season dining pass. SF bottles much better deal IMO.

LA Traffic is a nightmare, that is a known and proven fact. People may know where they are going but you can't get there for 3 or 4 hours on what is a 10 mile drive.

A lot of this is going to depend on exactly when you go, but it can be done for significantly less than $3,000. Look into Spirit. I flew them from MCI-LAX for $340 round trip. Looking into itineraries BOS-LAX, it looks like you can get it for around $400pp round trip. Also, don't get 2 day tickets to Magic Mountain; go get a season pass to SFNE for around $65pp; it's good at all Six Flags, including Magic Mountain, and includes parking too. Flash Pass is expensive, and no way to make that cheaper, but yeah, you're going to want it. As for hotels, Knott's Berry Farm Hotel is one of the best deals in LA. They're reasonably priced at around $120 or so per night, and they have all the major amenities. Depending on who you're going with, you may look at hostelling. There are hostels for around $30 per bed per night. That's what I did, and if all you want is a place to crash, then no sense in paying for stuff you're not going to use. As for car rental, it's cheap. I rented a compact from Alamo for 5 days for around $75. So here's your breakdown: Flight - $800 Six Flags season pass - $130 Gold Flash Pass - $360 Beverage bottle - $25 Hotel (3 nights) - $360 (or hostel for $180) Car rental - $50 Total - $1725. Would not really recommend staying at Knott's Berry to 2 spend 2 days at MM. They are on complete other sides of LA metro area, it's about a 70 mile trek with nightmare LA traffic. There's decent places to stay out near Valencia or in Santa Clarita.

Cedar Point Operating Schedule is out for 2017. Start your planning now. I am going the first week they go to 10-10P... The week of Jun 12th, should be very light crowds during the weekday with kids still in school.

They only really make money if you don't go to the park much. The $13 meal you get,if paid out of pocket, costs them 1/4 to 1/3rd of that, including the approximate cost of food workers. Typically 25 to 33 cents of every dollar for prepared food is what it costs the vendor. So, for your $85 dollar dining pass you need to eat $255(33 cents on the dollar) to $340(24 cents on dollar) worth of food at list price, before they lose money. For someone like me that went to several parks and a total of 13 days, they barely lost money. 26 meals at $13 is $338 plus whatever the snacks I had. Snacks cost essentially nothing as I ate pretzels, funnel cakes or italian ice on hot days. But, not everyone goes as much as I do. I know people that buy passes b/c they are cheap and only go 3 or 4 times a year. Also, you have to figure part of SF plan even if you're a high volume visitor is that you will bring friends on discount 19.99 days or free days, that will be purchasing purely out of pocket. Again, I think CF plans are better priced as a business model(not as a consumer..lol) at $90 for single park pass or $113 for all parks dining pass. I have SF Season Gold with dining and CF Platinum with all park dining.

They're digital because it's cheaper for them to make them digital and because they know damn well that far less people will use them when they're digital. I'm not complaining, it's actually really smart but I would guarantee that far less people use these digital coupons than used the paper ones. Out of sight, out of mind. The fact that it's always with on on your phone means you don't have to look for a book or remember to bring it, lose it, have it get tattered, etc... You have the SF app, which can get you into the park, your meals, etc... You're using the logic that applies to very old and not tech savvy people that making something digital, means they are less likely to use it. It's just the opposite for the people SF has as its core market.

They are digital b/c everything in society is becoming digital. Also, since they are always on your phone you always have them with you. Catch up to this century. Every business sends digital coupons.

I agree. Six Flags is trying to find new revenue streams and it's via their foreign licensing deals. It requires no capital investment. If they ramp up to the 10 parks in China goal and the other 4 foreign license deals already announced, that could be 100's of millions in revenue yearly eventually. I think SF has put themselves in box on pricing b/c people have been so used to deals that they will not likely buy passes if they increase them much. Personally I would be willing to pay more than than $62 for my gold pass. At least make passes so it takes 2 visits to the park to get your money back. CF Platinum takes 3 visits. Also, a point of possible concern to their SF model is that for the 2015 annual report spending per park patron was down $1.50 Interesting to see if it's down again in 2016 annual report. CF in contrast has been going up.

I haven't been on Thunderbolt but I have only heard terrible things and am surprised any park would get one instead of a similarly priced attraction from a different manufacturer. RCDB has another Zamperla coaster listed for the park. It may be a multi ride deal or a complete Zamperla ride showcase like Luna Park. If you're spending 10M, the quoted cost of Thunderbolt at Luna, than a Euro fighter with comparable price, is a better coaster. That's why I speculate it's a Zamperla ride showcase deal.ie...Air Race, Electro Spin, Drop Tower, Midi Discovery, Mega Disko, Endeavor, Vertical Swing, etc... Zamperla actually did a pretty good job with Luna. major upgrade with the all Zamperla rides compared to what it was before.

Double post

Vampire is a mirror of Batman. All Batman the rides start with a left off the drop ...Vampire starts with a right and all the rest of the turns are reverse of Batman...ie a mirror