eugjackson

Many people like VR. It's huge among the younger demos, gamers, etc... It's like Justice League, I don't come to a amusement park to wait an hour or more to play a video game. But, many people do and the JL line is mostly kids. It will be interesting to see how JL's popularity holds up 5 to 10+ years down the line. They cost 10-12M so SF surely view them as a longer term investment, while VR is cheap so if it doesn't work out you have lost very little. I think VR on drop towers could be better than coasters on a operations basis. Most drop rides don't have long lines so slower dispatch isn't a line clogger like if you put it on an even less popular coaster at the park. VR should never be done on a already popular coaster IMO. VR is typically been done on the less popular coasters at a park as an inexpensive way to revitalize it.

^ Thats from SFOG's wiki, but Ive read about this elsewhere in more detail. Hopefully someone can elaborate further? It's in the annual reports. It goes into how the SFOT and SFOG partnership works and the unit shares Corporate is buying over time and the required things Corporate must do, like a minimum capital investment amount that is a 5yr rolling total.

You're hilarious. CF nearly went bankrupt and SF went bankrupt. A bunch of other parks have gone bankrupt. Both CP and SF did b/c they made bad investments. So the logic that these execs are so brilliant and not fallible is nonsensical by history. In fact, if these execs and parks got more input from GP's and enthusiasts they might not have so many financial issues over history. The simple fact , is a GCI woody isn't a draw like a Giga or even a RMC. A Giga is a forever draw b/c there are only 4 in N. America. A Giga 1 or 2 years down the line after the capex spike would draw more people or even a RMC of Racer in 1 or 2 years. The RMC Racer would cost about the same or less than Mystic Timbers but with way more buzz.

Are you serious? What parks have you been to? Viper isn't an afterthought on a woodies list.

More people would surely know arachnophobia.

Viper needs a retrack. They aren't likely going to remove it b/c it fills the role as a family wood coaster in the line up.

Oh I got the point... the point is that like always you think you know more than the professionals who do this for a living and think that capital expenditures should be based on things like wood to steel coaster ratios instead of projected ROI numbers. If they thought it made more sense not to build Mystic Timbers this year and instead wait 2 years and build a giga coaster then why didn't they do that? Answer the question... and then submit an application since you're clearly more qualified to make capex decisions for Cedar Fair than the professionals who get paid to do that for a living. I'm all for speculating about what we want parks to do but acting as if you know more than they do about how they should spend their money when they have access to infinitely more information and data and have far greater experience and qualifications than we do then you end up sounding ridiculous. LOL..Can you read. It was all about ROI's and it's in several posts. You as usual are whining and do your continuously regurgitated post when you have run out of logic for you argument. The park does not need 4 wood coasters, another family woody doesn't bring Gp's to the park and doesn't drive any more than normal season pass sales.

There is nothing that can save Demon, its just a old, bad ride, that needs to go. 1970's era head banger coaster with crappy restraints and no thrill. It's one of about 4 rides that need to go and/or need serious revamping....AE and Viper both need serious help, both are rough and lack thrill. Demon just needs to go, not salvageable. Revolution needs to go and a Skyscreamer could fit in that exact spot. High attraction at the center of the park that would give a great view. Another option is a Zamperla Discovery replaces it, but at another location in the park, as won't fit in Revs spot, A Discovery could go by the new pathway being made on the outer edge near the parking lot. Give it a DC theme as it's near Batman and Joker. Lastly, if V2 actually leaves, Discovery would fit there nicely.

If the giga "made more sense" then they would have built the giga. As far as the financials and how much they're willing to spend on capex, they made it pretty clear that last year was more than they would generally spend and this year's capex reflects that. Sure there's always going to be steady growth each year (on average), but that doesn't translate to "Let's put a giga coaster at Kings Island in 2017". It's clearly not in the budget, if it was they would have built it or at least spent that extra capital elsewhere. There's really no counter argument, if the park wanted to spend more money they would have and if they thought a giga made more sense than Mystic Timbers they would have bought one. Of course, but the initial comment was directed at the people that think "anniversary year" = "blow the budget on a massive new coaster". Glad I could be of service As per usual as you don't read and thus miss the point. It makes no sense in a park with 3 woodies, 2 good ones, to get a 4th woody and not the Giga first. They should not have not get a coaster in 2017 and put off getting a coaster till 2018/2019 to better round out the line up. Save the 10M you spent on the GCI woody towards a GIga in 1 or 2 years. If you have enough for the year, delay a yr and that takes care of the spike year. The Giga is going to bring more enthusiasts and more GP's than another woody, no matter how much you try to hype it. CP got a bumpin attendance and a Dive is not even close to as good as any Giga. On capital expenditures the last 6 years it's been 75M, 90, 96, 120, 176, 160+, and the possibility of going over that by a bit.

... sure if you ignore the probable 10 to 20 million dollar cost difference between Mystic Timbers and a Giga coaster and the fact that they're already dumping a ton of money into capex (most of which seems to be for Cedar Point). While Mean Streak and the massive Breakers expansion are multi year projects, they're still fronting a ton of money for those now. They're also dumping a ton of money into Breakers Express. Per their Q4 conference call, they're spending $135 million in infrastructure and marketable capital in 2017 already, but are anticipating investing up to $40 million into expansion opportunities regarding resorts, additional sports facilities like the one in Sandusky and the expansion of Winterfest. Last year they were at $160 million and cautioned their investors that they felt that number was "elevated" which suggest that they'd like to be at a slightly lower number. Assuming they end up spending that additional $40 million that they're prepared to spend, they would be $15 million above a number that they already thought was elevated. A giga was never in the budget. The Giga made more sense to come before another woody. Not build Mystic in 2017 and get the Giga in 2018/19, as the wood line up is strong enough. The resort, hotel, sports complex are large investments but are a short term burst higher than normal, that's what CF was conveying to investors. That extreme number will not be the norm was the message to the investors. CF however has been steadily increasing capital investments if you look at the numbers over last 7 years or so. The breakers expansion was predicated on the success of the other recent renovation. If you look at the hotel/resort revenue numbers they went up nicely after the last renovation a few years back. Nice ROI. The sports complex will likely also give a nice ROI, as attendees to the tournaments will spend a day at the park and many will stay at the CP hotels.

Exactly!

Lol it probably wont be new. It will probably be a relocated coaster. There was that rumor of VV being removed from SFGAm...... A Wonder Woman(WW) or Justice League theme for V2 would make no sense if it is relocated, but it is SF. The Batman theme on the 4D at FT was also weird.

I would love it if was themed after Wonder Woman, and I think it's easy for them to just reuse the Lasso of Truth name that's already been used twice, plus we already have a Joker ride, eliminating the chance of it being named 'The Joker'. I also think that yellow track with a red white and blue train would look pretty great. A Wonder Woman theme doesn't really fit with a 4D, besides the fact 4D's are blah. Stl people should be praying SF by some inspiration go with the new Mack Xtreme spin coaster. That would fit with WW theme more and the Lasso of Truth. The Skywarp would be a great WW Lasso theme with the pretzel, but the same genre of Superloops, which Stl has. My hope is the survey on WW theme coasters is maybe the Skywarps going to parks that don't have superloops.

I imagine that they have plans for that area. I've heard a couple ideas of a Giga tossed around and if one of the layout becomes true, that area right behind Express where SOB's rosebowl was would be occupied by a turn around. Wouldn't shock me if they were to get a giga. I wouldn't be surprised if a Giga were the next coaster to come to the park, but I also would tend to believe it would be in a 5+ year timeline. The park is pretty solid right now and I believe they already have one of the best hypers. I'd imagine it would go right where you're speculating. If it were on the level of Fury, I would make the four hour drive on a pretty regular basis. Sorry for day dreaming out loud... A Giga actually made more sense for 2017 instead of Mystic Timbers IMO, as the park already has a solid wood line up. The fact that the park will now have 3 woodies, makes me think 1 woody might be RMC'd. The likely RMC candidate is Racer getting treated like Colossus to Twisted Colossus. CF is likely going to go on a run of RMC's like SF did. I could see all of the top CF parks, getting a RMC convert. CP-Mean Streak, KD-Hurler are already known, then KI-Racer, Wonderland-Mine Buster, CW-Hurler or if they don't want to do both Hurler's, a ground up RMC. If the my RMC run prediction is right, I think the KI Giga might be put off for a while. They can literally do anything they want at KI as they have land constraints like CP does.

Already done... Giant Drop is Platinum Flash Pass only. It's stupid as hell. VR needs a 3D environment to work and a drop tower is only 2D. Also you'll have 5-10 minute dispatches for a ride that is literally 30 seconds total. The entire ride time will be increased, as the VR will have an entire "movie sequence". No VR doesn't need 3D if the VR experience is a fall and the ride is a drop, that will in VR seem like a fall. It's an attempt to make drop rides more popular, as Giant Drop is a short wait and often a walk on, especially weekdays. It also allows SF to get more use out of the VR headsets, especially if they are only run VR on Demon during Frightfest.

Yes sir. No It's not a 2nd Gen Enterprise. It's a Zamperla Endeavour and a kick butt ride. Nobody has actually installed a 2nd Gen Enterprise in the US, I don't even think anybody has one in the world. It looks cool from the concept videos by Huss

The flat that needs to go is Swashbuckler. Add a Zamperla Endeavour or 2nd Gen Enterprise.

They need to introduce a plan that includes a drink with your meals only. You get a drink included with each meal used on your dining pass and add $12 cost to dining pass. I know for me I only really get drinks when I eat =, thus usually just get water and bring a small collapse cup. It's totally not worth paying $27 for someone like me in the past and also the bottle carrying issue. The only problem this really solves is the rides that exclude items. Since SF gives you the drink season bottle for free with purchase of gold dining I use the bottle. SF parks are not as exclusionary on items in the line.

1st round of clones is not done. I totally expect to see more JL's and Free Spins. I totally expect at minimum every park that has a JL now, gets a Joker(free spin) and vice versa. That means OG, Stl, Mexico get free spins and FT, NE get JL's. That would make 9 parks with both JL's and free spins. 10 of 13 parks have Skyscreamers and 2 parks without them, GAm and MM actually could use them. Round 2 Clones Zamperla Giant Discoveries - SF has already put in 4 total, 2014,2016, and 2 in 2017. They are really good flat rides IMO and would be a wise clone into 8+ parks. 2 of SF's favored parks, MM and GAm both need to beef up their flat rides and these would be a good addition, along with the Skyscreamers mentioned before. Zamperla Endeavors would be a wise clone or the 2nd Gen Enterprises. Go with one or the other, as they are kind of in the same genre. SF has been dealing with Zamperla a lot more than Huss recently, so I would lean towards them. Both MM, GAm could use a 3 ride flat package over a couple of years of a skyscreamer, discovery and endeavor. Skyline Skywarps - for the 5 parks that don't have Superloops, they can be listed as a coaster and are quoted at 2M cost at IAAPA presentation. The next coaster clone after the 4D's, which SF is not likely done with, may be another S&S ride. The Mack Xteme could be a clone coaster also. But, S&S put out those concept coaster videos and some looked pretty good. SF is pretty thrilled with S&S thus far. S&S is kind of going for the cost efficient coaster market, which is right in SF wheel house of frugality. No big coasters can be expected from SF anytime soon and even the RMC conversions are likely over for a while, as it appears CF is about to go on a run of conversions like SF did.

SF produced the same revenue as CF with 5+mil more visitors. SF per capita spending per visitor decreased while CF increased. Which do you think is better? Nothing really to brag about, it's a low end product strategy. High volume, low cost vs lower volume, higher revenue per visitor. They are thrilled that many people are content to keep showing up for cloned cheap coasters and rides. SF still is not going to build a major coaster. If you understand their investment formula the amount of revenue increase in FY 2016 is pittance in actual ride investment increase. Revenue increased by 55M, SF spends 9% of revenue on capital investments. That means 4.95M more in capital investments. Capital investments are split 60% rides, 25% asset management, 15% in park non rides. So the ride investment increased by 2.97M. I doubt 2.97M is what's going to make SF suddenly build a Giga or any other coaster. SF ride budget thus went fro 74M to 77M.

Welp, there goes significant hope in investments in American parks for a while... Read the investors presentation/annual reports from last year. These licensing deals make 5+M/yr each pre opening/constructions phase and are projected at up to 20M/yr post opening/full operation. SF puts up no money, the money for building the parks comes from the development groups in the foreign country. SF collects fees for consulting. management, use of SF name, etc.. Foreign parks are an easy way to increase revenue. These foreign parks in China(2 theme/2 water), Vietnam, Dubai, Saudi Arabia,etc...are going to be a good, no risk revenue stream.

Six Flags announced they have a formal agreement for SF branded parks in Bishan China to to open in 2020. There will be a theme park and water park at the site. Haiyan China SF theme/water park still expected to open in 2019.

There is no need and it would not worth the cost, etc... Goliath is already popular with GP and would be popular with enthusiasts with some revamps. The drop could be made better by making it steeper, it's a 250ft drop that is wasted b/c it has like a 60 degree angle. They could make there actual be air time where it should happen in other spots. They could revamp the middle ride break run, that kills the ride by bringing it to almost a complete stop. Change these things and it's like a new coaster b/c it changes the ride experience completely and won't cost the close to 18-20m for a new hyper coaster.

Like I said, it is ludicrous. You just didn't know what the heck you were doing. You instead made it seem the trip was long, complicated, taxing, etc...which would discourage the person you were responding to from using public transport. Leaving downtown at 430 am if you had a clue of what you were doing. you would have made the 540 UP-N, which would have got you to Waukegan Station at 650am. After taking the bus you would have been at SF about 3 hours before the park opens. There also is a train that leaves like 630am which would have gotten you there way early or even the 725am one, the 835am was also an option to arrive tight Goddamn. Pump the brakes a bit, guy. No one is an expert at public trans immediately, expecially coming from a non local. Mistakes happen and sometimes technology doesn't do the best job either. Clearly no one would have taken that route had they known the results. The story sounds like and is utter BS. There is absolutely no reason, even if you don't know Chicago, to leave from downtown to SF at 430am. It doesn't pass the basic BS meter. Second why would any logical person not use google maps or transit chicago if they don't know there way around? Oh wait, the excuse will be they don't have a phone, have no laptop, or can read a map. Btw, if you use Trans Chicago or Googke map or any directions service they will not tell you to go from Grand to SF by taking the purple line up to Evanston. They all will tell you to go to Oglvie Third, none would tell you to leave at 430am ? There are 4 trains that leave after then that all get you to SF by 1030am The guy wanted to turn someone off from public transport by a story that doesn't pass basic logic or any modicum of the BS sniff test. Naw, you're just being an @$$hole. Unlike you I have common sense, the ability to call BS and am not gullible There is no reason and you know it, to leave downtown at 430am to get to SF by 1030am. You also know, people would use one of the many online maps Google maps, Mapquest, or the many smart phone apps when in a new place to find directions. Again, none of them will tell you to go that route and no local who knows anything would either would tell you that's the way to get to Waukegan from Grand. The hotel desk would not tell you to get that way to Waukegan either and they wouldn't tell you to leave at 430am. The story doesn't pass the basic sniff test, b/c it's BS! You can't really be that gullible. The guy just wanted to make it seem like a nightmare to get to SF to discourage the other poster from public transport.

Like I said, it is ludicrous. You just didn't know what the heck you were doing. You instead made it seem the trip was long, complicated, taxing, etc...which would discourage the person you were responding to from using public transport. Leaving downtown at 430 am if you had a clue of what you were doing. you would have made the 540 UP-N, which would have got you to Waukegan Station at 650am. After taking the bus you would have been at SF about 3 hours before the park opens. There also is a train that leaves like 630am which would have gotten you there way early or even the 725am one, the 835am was also an option to arrive tight Goddamn. Pump the brakes a bit, guy. No one is an expert at public trans immediately, expecially coming from a non local. Mistakes happen and sometimes technology doesn't do the best job either. Clearly no one would have taken that route had they known the results. The story sounds like and is utter BS. There is absolutely no reason, even if you don't know Chicago, to leave from downtown to SF at 430am. It doesn't pass the basic BS meter. Second why would any logical person not use google maps or transit chicago if they don't know there way around? Oh wait, the excuse will be they don't have a phone, have no laptop, or can read a map. Btw, if you use Trans Chicago or Googke map or any directions service they will not tell you to go from Grand to SF by taking the purple line up to Evanston. They all will tell you to go to Oglvie Third, none would tell you to leave at 430am ? There are 4 trains that leave after then that all get you to SF by 1030am The guy wanted to turn someone off from public transport by a story that doesn't pass basic logic or any modicum of the BS sniff test.