Wisco Woody

Given the precedent of TTD's announcement, with the track at the park, the RMC will open in 2017 but possibly with a delayed opening past May, and that could be why there is no announcement yet. To conclude my remarks on certain people on high horses, a person who spends all day every day writing 30+ posts on a coaster forum does not strike me as a laid back person who can rightfully call others obnoxious or toxic. You remember the kid in class who always raised their hand and never stopped talking?

I think everything would go smoother if Coasterbill would just stop writing 30+ posts a day. Seriously, you feel the need to give your opinion on EVERYTHING, no matter how repetitive or trivial.

That's definitely the way to go with RB, as much airtime as possible in the back row, I just wish I had thinner legs to really pop out. Goliath really would only need 2 more ejector airtime hills to have equaled or beat El Toro in terms of airtime intensity, but Six Flags now refuses to build any coaster longer than 45 or 50 seconds of action at this park.

Because I'm a bit of a thrill junkie beyond the usual coaster enthusiast, I prefer a major park to have at least one rough woodie and one quite rough steel coaster. At Great America, AE blue takes the cake, and while maintenance has done an incredible job of making the Demon actually smoother in the past 5 years, I'm somewhat disappointed because we no longer have a steel coaster that is all that rough or painful.

B&Ms, new and old, are in no way rough. The headbanging in corkscrews, zero g rolls, and quick transitions are completely unavoidable on an OTSR coaster with corkscrews regardless of who builds it. Sounds like Coasterbill is just a soft person who can't handle a bit of the Arrow shakes. X2 was fantastic for me in the back row, and being slightly rough is unavoidable with such massive winged trains.. You want rough? American Eagle, blue side, back row; You'll be jackhammering side to side so much that Mean Streak was a massage chair in comparison.

^ The 2 smartest, most hilarious people on the forums right here. The limit on G force and how much support a person needs to avoid injury is a relative one, it's different for different people. As a coaster enthusiast, this should be obvious if one has at least a high school education. The back rows on Outlaw Run and Goliath can cause smaller riders to slam into the sides of the car upon exiting the rolls and stalls, but in general the vast majority won't be injured. But remove the OTSR vests on Maverick and I305, you would see several cases of whiplash and lesser injuries due to impact with the seat or person seated next to them.

If you think normal park goers could safely or comfortably ride Maverick or I305 without an OTSR system, then you need to learn some basic physics and realize the risk for collision of rider's heads and upper bodies.

If there were comfortable or tight OTSR vests on Outlaw Run like on Maverick, you would see how much more snappy and abrupt the lateral transitions are on Maverick. The difference is that on Maverick the restraints work so well that a normal sized man is smoothly and comfortably held through the transitions, while on Outlaw Run and the back rows of most RMCs you are allowed to fly from side to side. There is a limit on rapid lateral g force that you have to use an OTSR system, and while Outlaw Run is just below that limit, Maverick and I305 are well beyond it.

Wladimir Klitschko has the best one-two punch. Cedar Point no doubt wins for me with Maverick and MF. I find it funny that Holiday World, and possibly even Kentucky Kingdom, beats out both King's Island and SFGAm when just comparing the top 2 at each park.

Coasterbill, you are the typical under-educated, toxic enthusiast. You post constantly and make sure your opinion on everything is known, and yet you have the urge to call other people condescending. Several MODERN B&M's are less forceful in the front rows, and I could argue all 3 rows for Valravn. But thanks to the positive G force in the transitions and inversions on Banshee, it is as forceful in any row as Gatekeeper or X-Flight are in their back rows, and that is what sets Banshee apart.

Banshee is my personal # 5 coaster. Yes it lacks the quick lateral g force on Raptor and the vests prevent movement and zero g floater air within the vests, but the alternating between strong positive G force and zero g sections lasts the entire ride without a pause in the transitions. More than any other coaster I've ridden, after the lift you spend so much time either upside down or in banked transitions that you are barely ever right side up, and when you are you get sweet sustained G force.

1. Maverick 2. Voyage 3. Millennium Force 4. Goliath (SFGAm) 5. Banshee 6. Outlaw Run 7. Lightning Run 8. Diamondback 9. Raptor 10-1. Magnum XL-200 10-2. Thunderbird

Wooden. Cobra. Roll. If you want some lateral G force, an RMC cobra roll would bring them Gs.

DP

Screw it, RMC Mean Streak will be 210 ft tall with a 230 ft drop at 125 degrees with a top speed of 82 mph, and it will be an all wooden T-Rex track with running wheels made of gold, because that's what Cedar Point deserves.

^ Cedar Point fanboy. This isn't Roller Coaster Tycoon, there are limits on what can be done if you want to use an existing structure. If they did construct a new lift and drop of greater than 200 ft, then they would not be able to use the entire original first half of Mean Streak's structure under the former path due to speed and space limitations, at least not without a large set of trim brakes. CP just added a 220 ft tall coaster this year, so they don't need to add 2 200 ft coasters back to back. And to break the drop height record for a wooden/hybrid coaster, they only need to beat Goliath's 180 ft drop which is possible but just barely when using the existing structure. People should stop thinking of RMC Mean Streak as being like MF or Valravn, as RMC coasters are far more comparable to Maverick and other shorter, fast paced coasters.

They've added 10 to 15 ft to the height in the past, not 40+ ft to make a 200+ ft tall coaster. Manage your expectations, because CP doesn't need this coaster to be 200 ft tall to be a success.

200+ ft tall is very unlikely, as the existing structure can only accommodate a max height of possibly 175 to 180 ft. A 200+ ft lift and drop would mean they would have to use a trim brake to reduce speed if they wanted to use the rest of the existing structure. At this point I think an LSM launch of some kind is very possible, likely in tribute to the 10th anniversary of Maverick, which alongside El Toro inspired many of the design ideas and elements used on RMCs.

I never said Valravn wasn't worth the investment, to build a coaster of that caliber and transform the whole area beautifully for only $20 million is impressive. What I said is it's not quite the GP magnet throughout the whole day that dive coaster lovers want you to believe. Gatekeeper is my 5th favorite CP coaster, but at only one year old it already had only 50% more riders than 7 year old Maverick despite being higher capacity, less downtime, and at the front of the park, and the same decrease in ridership will likely occur with Valravn. My original and main point is that maybe we should stop hoping and asking for a cookie cutter dive coaster to come to every park, because eventually Parks will take notice and might actually start installing these dive coaster clones instead of pursuing innovation. At least Batman: The Ride was innovative and loved greatly by almost everyone, and I don't think you can say that of a dive coaster clone.

Wow Coasterbill, tough guy eh? A Stephen Colbert mic drop absolutely proves how intelligent and superior you and your opinions are. In all seriousness, go back to CP for more than one day and observe the length of the lines and crowd movements throughout the day. Raptor, my 2nd favorite invert, and Gatekeeper, my favorite wing BTW, both lose riders and have much shorter lines as the day progresses. Hell even Valravn and sometimes TTD have noticeably shorter lines as night falls, and that is because both Millennium Force and Maverick have long lines throughout the day and their lines usually only get longer. Now I personally don't care much for only height and speed if it's a slow paced ride like MF, but that is what the GP loves first and foremost, and they can tell when they have ridden multiple copy/paste and cookie cutter elements on B&M coasters, and as a result they flock to the taller, faster, and faster paced rides for truly unique experiences. Dive coasters are not unique or that exhilarating for the GP as they used to be, since at several major parks there are already one or two taller and faster coasters that already have steep drops and better layouts after the drop, and if you ask regular park goers they often say that after the drop on a dive coaster they felt the rest was absolutely nothing special.

It's amazing how many enthusiasts don't want to admit that modern B&M wing and dive coasters are mostly forceless, probably because they're easily impressed. Gatekeeper and X-Flight in the back row are themselves more forceful than Valravn in any seat, while Banshee and Thunderbird are actual forceful coasters albeit also without the lateral G force. Haven't ridden Fury or Leviathan, but those at least seem to have fast paced laterals and airtime. So rather than wasting $20 million on a crappy forceless dive coaster, more parks should save up for even more thrilling GP crowd pleasers like launchers and alternate position coasters. There's a reason Maverick is now more popular than Gatekeeper despite being in the back of the CP, and it's because even the GP can tell when a coaster is less thrilling. Six Flags has usually installed more forceful and fast paced coasters instead of just record breakers, and they should continue that trend.

It would be pointless to try and break the height and drop records because it would just be another cookie cutter short dive coaster, as Six Flags likely won't spend any more on a dive coaster than CP spent on Valravn, which I can confirm is tame and forceless. I think it would be more interesting if they converted the first drop of Riddler's Revenge into a vertical dive, creating the world's longest dive coaster as either a floorless or the world's first stand up dive coaster.

The GCIs from after 2004 or so tend to stay very smooth, as they were designed with the modern Millennium Flyer trains, and were never designed to accommodate PTC trains and their longer wheelbase and resulting shifting/shaking. It's probably only a matter of time until major parks stop ordering new PTC trains all together.

Interesting, Dodonpa does have track very similar to the modern I box. It makes me curious as to if Schilke had any involvement with the design of Dodonpa and other early S&S coasters. A launch from 0 to 107 mph in only 1.8 seconds sure sounds pyscho enough to be an idea of Alan's.

KBrylczyk that's actually a great point! With Eejanaika being another Alan Schilke creation at the same park, them being down with S&S adding a couple more elements and ejector airtime hills as Dodonpa's new finale actually makes a ton of sense, but it would be costly and draw Schilke's precious time away from his RMC designs.