OrlandoGuy

^So true. Also keep in mind that Space Mountain would be super lame if not in a building...sometimes the darkness/cool scenery can elevate even the most basic ride to a very cool experience.

I think that unless you know the exact design of a ride (including the showbuilding details, queue, etc.) along with the cost of materials and R&D needed for said things, OR you are an accountant for the park, its kind of unfair to decide how well or poorly the money is being spent.

^Glad to hear you had such a great time!! Personally, despite not being a Potter fan, I like the new Harry Potter ride (Gringotts) more than Transformers, because its a little more unique. However, I would put Transformers above the older Harry Potter ride (Forbidden Journey) because TF's execution is so much better. I would put every ride at Universal above the Hogwarts Express

Great pictures! I know everyone loves Silver Dolar City, but what did you think of Worlds of Fun? For some reason that park is very intriguing to me...seems like it should be a charming attempt at theming by Cedar Fair, and also seems like it has a lot of old school flare which is interesting.

I may be wrong but wasnt that their slogan for the Diagon Alley ads? It could be referencing that. If its for an announcement, I could imagine it foreshadowing Kong. It was a big hit once, and theyre doing it again aiming for similar success...lightning striking twice.

Kind of off topic, but do you count Wonder Mountain's Guardian then? Many people seem to be saying that WMG is a credit, yet it seems to be in the same situation as Gringotts… one small drop, then the rest is a dark ride. Ive only seen POV's of WMG but from what I can tell, Gringotts is definitely more of a coaster. Im not saying I would count Gringotts as a credit, but I was actually surprised by the length of the coaster portions in it. WMG has a chain lift and a drop track, and thats basically it. Gringotts has much more actual coaster-like track elements taken at a high speed than WMG seems to have. Although after going on Gringott's, I cant believe its being mentioned in the same breath as Wonder Mountain Guardian...such a great experience!

Doesnt Hersheypark already have a wild mouse..? Why would another one be a good thing? A spinning mouse vs a regular mouse is worse than a B&M hyper vs a B&M giga, and yet look at the difference in mood netween this thread and the Carowinds one. Of course I could be completely off-base because Ive never actually visited Hershey.

I noticed that your location is New Jersey, meaning Hershey and CP (the two parks you mentioned) arent that nearby. So of course when you go to these places youre going to make the most of your trip and hit the biggest rides. But think about how those that live closer to these parks spend their time...doing just roller coasters every visit each season would get old. More local visitors appreciate the flats, which in turn drives annual pass sales, a HUGE revenue-generator for parks.

Yep, another good example. If flats didnt generate any ROI we wouldnt be seeing things like this. The fact is, the addition wasnt a huge coaster or major investment, just a family coaster and a couple flats that added to the aesthetics of the area and made the park more appealing to a wider demographic. Did people drive hours specifically to see Knotts' new flats? No. But they'll make Knott's an annual trip when they can appreciate the variety the park offers on the visit that stems from whatever their real big draw is. Complementary additions can most certainly generate a return on investment, but like I said its just not as immediate as a large coaster.

This is spot on. Most of the "Disney killer" comments I've read were on a different site where pretty much everybody absolutely hates Disney and worships Universal. Both resorts will see an increase in attendance due to SDMT and Diagon Alley opening. Anyways, back to topic. I think the main reason crowds are dying down a lot earlier than expected is that schools seem to be starting earlier than ever this year. I mean, in St. Louis most schools either started today or start tomorrow. And it isn't easy trying to get home from a vacation and then have only a day or so to prepare for the start of school. Also, I have to agree that the popularity of the franchise is dying down. Other YA series are starting to become more and more popular, and a lot of people seem to be forgetting about Harry Potter. However, with the Harry Potter spinoff films coming up soon, the franchise be reintroduced to a whole new generation. While Im not sure that Harry Potters popularity will ever completely die, I do agree that the timing (with a July opening and schools starting early) probably has a lot to do with it. I mean most people plan their vacations way ahead of time, and yet the opening date was announced, what, two weeks beforehand? That doesnt give people enough time to plan, and even if it did, July 8 only gives people a month of viable summer vacation time. It will be interesting to see how crowds are during the off-season, and Im sure Christmas will be insane. Next summer could get pretty busy too.

Exactly. In fact, in the history of the parks here, has there EVER been a time where what one park did negatively impacted another? I dont think so. The whole idea of Hunger Games-level competition between Disney and Universal was made up by fanboys and lives on because of people who have some weird obsession with one resort over the other and nothing better to do with their time. Disney is probably a big part of what kept Universal alive when they werent doing so well right before Potter. And Universal's additions are also going to increase traffic to Disney. Bottom line...Diagon Alley is freakin awesome and its great for everybody

You are right. You dont have to eyeball how many people are carrying shopping bags, if you know any TMs just ask them...the stores are underperforminhg in a sense. Many stores in Diagon have yet to meet their projected goals for the summer from what Ive heard. Thats not to say the place is a failure, but youre spot on about merch sales being less than stellar. I have no idea why, but oversaturation seems to play a part, as do prices and the fact that Hogsmeade has already had great Potter merch available for four years. I also love your analogy about Disney/Universal being like Bellagio/Excalibur. I hate when people seem to think what one does has to "kill" the other or have some sort of effect. In a market like Orlando, these two mega-resorts build off each other if anything.

First off, if you are getting into Orlando "around 8:30pm", there is NO WAY you are making it to MK by 9pm. I wouldn't bother at all. I was just at the park last night, actually, from 9pm - Midnight and everything was still 45min - 90min waits. This is summer you're talking about, it's not like the rides are walk-ons, even at night! As for your other two park days, it really doesn't matter which day you hit either of them on. I would recommend getting Express Passes and Quick Queue if you only have one day at each. Ok thanks for all the advice!!!! Also one last quick question, are there any rollercoasters at BGT/IOA where it does matter where you sit? Thanks!! Hulk is awesome in the front, Red Dragon is best in the back while Blue is best in front. Pretty much every coaster at BGT is best in the back except Sheikra which is best up front or row 2 if the front isnt do-able.

Wow, really dude? Did it never occur to you to just maybe, I dont know, politely ask her to put it away? I know its against the rules and she shouldnt have done it but at the end of the day she didnt have any intent to do any harm (unlike say line jumpers or people who smoke in line), and yet your first instinct was to rudely slap it out of her hand and break her phone? Or watch as she gets escorted out? Thats kinda sick man. Maybe Im overreacting but it seems to me a normal response wouldve just been to tell her to put it away, not get all malicious over it.

oh, I didnt even see that you would be getting in at 8:30 the night you want to go to Magic Kingdom. You might as well just save your money and not bother unless you really dont mind missing a lot and just want to see it. For reference, it takes me an hour minimum to get from OIA (upon landing) to my house, and my house is another 15 minutes from the Magic Kingdom parking lot, which itself is about 15 minutes from the park (considering you have to take the ferry or monorail). Optimistically, youd get to Magic Kingdom in the ballpark of 11 without even having dinner. If you absolutely cant get there any earlier, skip Magic Kingdom and save it for a trip when you have more time.

Hey, Im gonna do my best to answer your questions but honestly, its kinda hard to give a good answer when it comes to Orlando parks in the summer. First off, how much do you want to see in Magic Kingdom? While the park crowds generally thin out around 10, making lines reasonable, 2 hours is not enough to see everything even if everything were to be walk-on. If you get there at 9 pm, I would hit Pirates, Haunted Mansion, and maybe Little Mermaid or Buzz or some other high capacity people-eater...those lines shouldnt be too bad. After the fireworks are over, the park should empty out a bit, but youll still see long lines at Space Mountain. Big Thunder will probably hover around 30 and Splash Mountain could be as low as 15 after 10...I havent been since 7DMT but Im guessing that line will be around 45, and Space Mountain will most likely be at an hour all night. So you have to prioritize which one of the big mountains is most important to you. I will say that the best strategy is to take the ride with the longest line (probably Space) and hop in line at 11:59. That way you dont waste any time in that line and make the most of your time. However, the best way to fully enjoy the park is to give yourself more time. Also, Im not sure how FP+ works for non-Annual Passholders but you could look into that, and possibly reserve some Fastpass return times before you get there. Go to the Disney website for more info on that, because that can be very helpful if the timing is right. As for IOA and Busch Gardens...I recommend doing BG on Thursday and IOA on Friday. While both days will be crowded, BG's crowds are much more influenced by weekends than IOA, which typically has consistent crowds all summer (BGT is more of a local park while IOA is more a tourist destination). HOWEVER, if there is a heavy chance of rain in the forecast for one of those days, pick that day to go to Busch Gardens. The rain will pass within an hour (2 max) MOST of the time, and the Tampa natives will generally avoid Busch on overcast days. But if the forecast for both Thursday and Friday are the same, pick Thursday for BGT. And get there as early as you can! It will take you about an hour and ten minutes, give or take, to get from Orlando to Tampa. Also, I noticed you only specified Islands of Adventure but I would recommend getting a 2-park pass and hitting Universal Studios as well. This summer has seen un-seasonally reasonable crowds, and both parks are very manageable in one day and very worth seeing...and the 2-park pass is not much more expensive than a 1-park. Go to Islands first thing in the morning and knock out Spider-Man. Make sure you get on the water rides by around 11 because those will get BUSY! Forbidden Journey should hover around 45 minutes all day, with Dragon Challenge being 15-20, so no need to rush to those. Afterward, take the Hogwarts Express (if youre a Harry Potter fan) to the Studios...however if youre not a Potter person, skip it and walk. At the Studios, make sure to get in line for Gringotts (which should be high on your priority list) BEFORE 7 pm, as the line for that closes between 7 and 8 every night so far this summer. Dont do Transformers and Rip Ride Rockit until nighttime, and every other queue should be reasonable in that park throughout the day. Hopefully this helps, but like I said your results very well may vary. Unfortunately, schools are still out down here so it will be kinda busy, but this season hasnt been too terrible. I would still try to squeeze in more time at MK and upgrade to a 2-park pass at Universal, but whatever you do, have fun!

Ok so explain exactly what the theming is, how it ties to that area, and what makes it themed to a Griffon. um...well he just did. Thats what his whole post you just quoted was about. Im not sure how you missed that. However I dont really see the big deal either way. Cedar Point isnt a theme park. Its about the rides. If people dont know the true Gatekeeper theme, I dont think its a huge deal...it doesnt really significantly affect the ride experience in any way.

Finally got to see and experience Diagon Alley today and thought I'd leave a little TR. To be honest, I was planning on waiting until crowds died down before seeing this thing but after hearing crowds were low and the quality was high, I became a little more anxious to see it. This morning at the gym (literally down the street from the resort), a guy I was spotting happened to work at Universal and told me that crowds were a lot lower than expected and it would be worth checking out. So I finished up my workout, called a buddy of mine, and at around 3 o'clock we made it over to the parks to finally see what the hype was about. Now, I'm not a Harry Potter fan by any means. I've seen a couple movies a longggg time ago and flipped through a few of the books but overall, most references to Harry Potter go right over my head. Therefore, my experience is going to be a lot different than that of a super fan. That being said, I was blown away upon walking into Diagon Alley. There is absolutely nothing inside that suggests you are in a theme park, or even Central Florida for that matter. Bar none, the most immersive theme park area I have ever stepped into. Walking from Universal into Diagon is like stepping into a whole other world, and vice versa…it's hard to believe Production Central and Diagon Alley are in the same park. It's incredible, the level of detail is amazing. That being said, my lack of Potter knowledge made it so that most references were lost on me. While the initial impact of the land was cool, after about 15 minutes of exploring the luster had worn off. Here's the thing about Diagon…it's practically all shops. When people say they could spend a full day in Diagon, they mean shopping (and maybe doing that interactive wand game). If you're not one of Harry Potter's bigger fans, or don't have millions to blow on unique merchandise (which is admittedly cool), then you're at a disadvantage so to speak. Still, simply as a theme park fan, you can appreciate the level of detail and immersion that went into this place. But we were there for rides. The Hogwarts Express (from King's Cross to Hogsmeade) has a phenomenal queue line…authenticity is brought to a whole new level here. I've been in very few actual train stations, but from what I do know, this one knocks it out of the park. Even the ads are realistic. As for the actual ride…well, it left a lot to be desired. I had heard things like this would be the best themed ride experience ever, and that the in-cabin effects were amazing, etc. etc. Overall, I was not impressed. Not a whole lot goes on, and the only "effects" (SPOILER) are a few flickering lights and some outlines of dementors on the windows (END SPOILER). And it's over in about two seconds. Not enough happens to classify this as a true "attraction" to me. While I thought this would be a legitimate destination attraction, it's nothing more than a transport with a movie playing in the windows. I really wish there would be more going on, but I understand that to keep the illusion, there's only so much they could do. While I still do think the effects could've been more impressive, I can't fault a simple train ride for getting my expectations too high. Gringott's is a COMPLETELY different story. I wasn't sure what to expect from this bad boy. While the pre-opening hype was obviously insane, reviews I had heard since opening seemed underwhelmed. That said, I avoided all spoilers and had absolutely no idea what to expect when strapping in after a little less than two hours of waiting in one of the most elaborate, fantastic, attraction-worthy queues I've ever been in. All I can say is wow. I laughed. I jumped. I yelled. This ride is just balls-to-the-wall fun. I was blown away by the technology behind this thing. While it's definitely not a roller coaster, it does have (SPOILERS) surprising moments of acceleration/speed and a funky tilt section followed by a pretty butterfly-inducing drop (END SPOILERS), and they make for such a fun experience that really sets it apart from similar 3-D experiences. Speaking of 3-D, I was pleasantly surprised by its implementation here. It wasn't overbearing like some of Universal's latest additions. There were several full-fledged, awe-inspiring physical sets throughout the ride, with screens not only being seamless, but only used when absolutely necessary to add to the experience. I mean, this is literally everything you can ask for in a ride…some speed, some amazing effects, 3-D, physical sets, and a boatload of fun. If there's one negative thing I had to say, it's that the story/progression of events is a little unclear, but I'm sure one more spin on it where I'm not in complete awe over the sheer aesthetics of the ride would clear that up. Seriously, this is one amazing ride. Now, the place isn't perfect. Aside from the train, I was underwhelmed by the theming of Diagon Alley itself. While it is by all means highly detailed and immersive, it doesn't do too much for those who aren't fans of the series. I'm not a mega-fan of the Cars franchise, but I could spend such a long time admiring the rock work of Cars Land in DCA. In Diagon on the other hand, there's no big general theme to enjoy…almost everything is Potter-specific. The dragon is cool to look at, and the architecture is wonderfully wonky, but most of the stuff that really makes the place pop is stuff people who don't know Harry Potter can't appreciate as much. At least, that's how I felt. Also, the queue line for Gringott's is a mess after the elevator portion….that's a TERRIBLE cluster**** of people that needs to be fixed and controlled better as soon as possible. Other than that, I can't complain. Overall, I was very impressed with Diagon Alley. While I don't see the need to wait in line for the Hogwarts Express ever again, and I feel that maximum enjoyment of the area comes with a large knowledge of Potter (unfortunately), the Gringott's ride and level of detail in the area more than make up for its over reliance on super fan geekdom. The level of immersion is unprecedented and the Gringott's experience delivered everything I could've ever hoped for in a ride of its scale. I can't recommend this enough, but I'm still hesitant to because I'm very much hoping for low-crowd days in about a month Unfortunately, I didn't get any pictures, but the place has my glowing testimony. If anyone has any specific questions, please feel free to ask, I really scoured the place!

Haven't Ridden: -Flashback/Z-Force -The Chiller -Alien Encounter -Horizons (this one most of all...even tribute vidoes of this ride are awe-inspiring and nostalgic) -Adventures Thru Inner Space Have Ridden: -Jaws -Kongfrontation -Back to the Future (my former favorite ride of all time) Im just gonna throw Gwazi out there too because its demise seems eminent at this point, and I dont know when Ill be down to go to Tampa again...but I love this sucker.

Its really a shame how nobody is appreciating how great this response is.

Most of the time, you cant just eyeball attendance levels. So much more goes into it than simply how long the lines are (which, in my experiences, are actually pretty healthy...sure, Intimidator is often dead but Flight of Fear and Volcano consistently draw large waits anyway). First off, you have to consider the capacity for the park to handle people. KD has 14 roller coasters...thats quite a bit more than the average park. And their flat ride selection isnt half bad either. So when youve got a ton of rides to disperse the crowds over, crowds are going to seem lighter. Sure, KI and CP have more rides and more crowds, but KI draws from a larger population of people and CP is an anomaly in that its a destination regional amusement park. A more fitting comparison would be something like SFA...similar location, but even lower crowds and less rides to put people through. Heck, even look within Cedar Fair; do Dorney, WoF, or VF draw monster lines for their big rides? Not really, and, once again, they have less rides to even people out. Another thing to consider is the guest behavior at KD. Revenue doesnt come solely from ticket purchases. Cedar Point announced that guest spending was up, increasing their revenue despite a dip in attendance. If KD's guests are spending, then the park may be in very good shape as far as revenue is concerned. I wouldnt worry about Kings Dominion, unless theres some hard evidence out there that its struggling. But you cant just look at a queue line and question the parks viability.

I don't understand why Cedar Fair would risk using Banshee for another major coaster (Kings Island) after all the negative feedback Mantis got. Not only the fact that they tried it again, but in the same state? Does anyone know if Kings Island made people mad about their name choice, or were people actually satisfied with something? Eh, I think its just one of those things where things change over time. In the 1960's, you couldnt show a toilet flushing in a movie without causing a commotion and nowadays the most kid-friendly movies are heavy on fart jokes. Sure, theres only 10+ years between Mantis and now, but I think the point still stands. With the overexposure of audiences to demon-type movies, and exorcism-related films even getting PG-13 ratings, I think things like "Banshee" just dont phase people anymore. Back when Mantis was made, the big demon movies were Rosemarys Baby and The Exorcist and they freaked people out. Now, stuff like that is a dime a dozen, and we're surrounded by it. Err go, people are ok with the name Banshee now. Thats my take on it, anyway.

The difference is Falcon's Fury is a unique first-of-its-kind major thrill ride. Not a relocated wild mouse. Also, the park did its job on time; Pantopia is done, and the construction part is over. This is now all on Intamin to get the thing working. BGT also doesnt have a record of being late with rides. Theyre typically reliable. Whereas stuff like this happens with Six Flags all the time. Its also Intamin...it seems that their projects are becoming too overambitious/problematic, and a park cant be blamed for wanting to take a risk and having the manufaturer not come through 100%.

Im not one for lists, but Magnum is definitely one of my favorite coasters, maybe even number 1. Does it have the most insane ejector air ever?? For me, yes. Is it painful? Thats not how I would describe it at all. Part of good airtime is getting slammed into the lap bar! Maybe the new B&M's have neutered everyones expectations but Magnum is a good ole oldie with a kick!

Also, most of the parking is across the street...so taking out parking spaces would do nothing lol. Unless they want to build a bridge to expand outside their current boundaries which would make no sense.