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^ and ^^ Thanks for the suggestions. It seems foliage and terraforming are pretty much the only tips I've been getting for the last few updates. As I have said, cost is the primary issue for those particular areas, given that I am and will always be using in game money for this project. With that said, once I wrap up construction for the 1991 additions, I will work with what I can do concerning those areas. Maybe I'll surprise you guys, but I guarantee it will not be extreme in any case (no mountains, 100% forst density, etc). I'll do what I can within the budget, keeping an eye on future additions, which are becoming more certain as the park progresses. Thanks again, and please continue the criticism. Even if it isn't related to trees; that's allowed too!

I disagree. Yes, they *could* have done this, but with all the undelevoped land SFA has, it really didn't make a difference. And the location is actually pretty good for a kids area, IMO. It is the only kids area in the back and left side of the park, and it breaks up the field of mediocre coasters past Wild One.

The problem is, Batwing is the only coaster (besides occasionally Superman) that ever garners any sort of queue on a normal operating day (excluding Fright Fest Saturdays). This is likely due to the poor capacity combined with constant one train operations and pathetic loading times. I would be very surprised if Batwing does over 350-400 pph. That said, it is still a draw for the park as the nearest flying coaster is at Great Adventure and it ups the coaster count, which we all know is Six Flags' main priority, even at parks like SFA where it rally doesn't make a difference. What I'm trying to say is that I think Batwing would be one of the last coasters to go if one were in fact leaving. I'd be all for burning down Mind Eraser of Apocalypse though.

On the first post of this thread I said that I have used trainers before, but am trying to avoid them for this park. I'm not against them, but I am trying to keep this park realistic in terms of money and history. For me, I'd rather stay true to that then add some hills to the map. It's just my personal preference. Anything other than this, I am willing to work on and do mu best. Thanks for the idea, anyway.

We have reached 1990 at Frontier Forest, meaning it is time to recap all the latest happenings around the park. Looping Starship, the swinging inverter ship constructed in 1987, has been temporarily moved into storage to make room for the 1990 expansion. The popular ride will return to a permanent location in the park in 1991. In 1990, the Frontier Explorers children's area was relocated across the midway in the former location of Looping Starship. The area was given a complete overhaul, more than doubling the size and number of attractions. Crazy Cars, the bumper cars ride, was relocated in the new and improved Frontier Explorers, along with three new attractions: a Chance Carousel, a junior sized Ferris Wheel, and Turnpike Cars, a sports car ride designed for children, manufactured by Arrow. The area also features Explorer Theater, home shows aimed at families and children. Bumper Boats did not return for the 1990 season, joining Swan Boats in the boneyard in backstage areas. As for the former location of the children's area, management has stated the land will be developed in the future, although there are no immediate plans to do so. The park announced a renewed focus on conserving the forest setting of the park, planting dozens of trees over this year and over the next few years. Final attendance figures have arrived for the previous season. Frontier Forest welcomed over 1.35 million guests in 1989- the most in park history. As always, comments/criticism appreciated! Here we are at Frontier Forest, we find ourselves overlooking the famed Forest Flyer. A full train of riders taking the 6 story plunge on the all new Coyote. This has become a common sight. Catapult closed for technical difficulties, although only a few riders in line in the first place. This has also been more and more common. Another full train departing the station on the Forest Flyer. An overview of the 1990 expansion of the children's area A closer view, showing the landscaping The expanded area is anchored by Turnpike Cars, an Arrow sports car ride for younger children The remains of the former location of the children's area, subject to future expansion Park overview in 1990. More info coming soon as no construction zones were seen up through late summer. Comments appreciated!

Thanks for the criticism, I will absolutely take these into consideration. I can't guarantee that you will see any major changes in hills/elevation simply because I am using in-game money with a max budget of $100,000, which severely limits what I can do in that respect, but I feel keeps the park realistic in many other respects. Many of your other suggestions were already on the drawing board, and you may even see some of them in the following update. I encourage you to continue commenting on the park's progress; it is the only way I can improve this project.

Just to elaborate, I've ridden Apocalypse about a dozen times between 2013 and 2014. A few of those have been in the front, once or twice in row 6 or 7, and the rest between 2 and 5. The last few rows pretty much suck all the time, no matter the weather/what have you. Row 7 on a bad day is a solid .2/10. That's *point* 2, not 2/10. I'm not exaggerating. I've had a couple (mostly in the summer) tolerable rides in the front two rows, but the corkscrew is still riddled with head banging. The rest of the ride is slow, relatively forceless (other than for a split second in the loop), and extremely uneventful. These rides I'd give it a 4/10. The other *normal* rides (front/middle rows, normal headbanging frequencies per usual) are where you can truly judge the ride. The ride is as described above, but rougher. 3/10, in my book. On the *good* rides, Apocalypse is almost out of the bottom third of the coasters I've ridden (around 35-40 in total). On the *bad* rides, well... It's worse than Mind Eraser, the park's brutal SLC. That smells like sweat fused with vomit as the neck restraints try to mangle you. So yeah, sounds like fun!

Made it out to the park for closing day yesterday. Despite the cold (dipping down in the low 40's by closing), we had a really fun last day. Managed all the haunted houses in about one hour. They were okay, nothing special, but a nice break from the coasters. Worth the $12 in my book. We rode, in order, Joker's Jinx, Superman, Batwing, Voodoo Drop, Wild One, did the haunted houses, then finished up the season with a front row night ride on Superman. It obviously didn't compare in the least, but is reminded me of my night rides in the last row of Millennium Force back in August. Those rides were really something special. Superman was running fairly well, I must say. All in all, I'd say Six Flags America has really turned it around the last few years, with 2014 being the biggest improvement. The park is still miles behind the top-tier parks, including the nearby Six Flags park, Great Adventure, but if they can improve operations and manage their clientele, all the basics will have been covered. Then it's time to see if Six Flags is ready to take a leap and make a legitimate investment in Six Flags America. The recent additions are greatly needed, but realistically are nowhere near spectacular, and are designed to keep costs down. And Apocalypse sucks.

Thanks for the feedback everyone! Coyote was the result of a lot of trial and error after a few solid hours of suspended coaster research and planning. With that said... The next update will come by Tuesday, November 4th. Hope to see you there in 1990!

El Toro's first drop and crossover hill in the last car Kingda Ka and Dragtser's launch Millennium Force's first drop Intimidator 305's first drop and turnaround Nitro's helix Raptor's helix Batman clones inversions and tight turns And... Maverick's track circuit

If it were me, I would be most interested in options two or three. Obviously it is up to you and your priorities, but two and three look most appealing to me. Don't get me wrong, KD and BGw are both very solid parks. I've been to both a few times. However, outside of I-305, KD doesn't have much in terms of truly memorable experiences. I can't say for BGW has it's been quite a few years, but the three B&M's are very good, but still, nothing incredible. I've been to CP a total of three days in my life, and if you haven't been since Magnum just opened, I would certainly advise going back. Millennium Force (many would say otherwise, but I think it is outstanding at night) and Maverick are two of the best coasters in the world. Period. If you haven't ridden one of the Intamin rocket coasters, Dragtser is probably the better of the two, and is certainly worth riding. Same to be said for Raptor, GateKeeper, and possibly Rougarou. You're not going to be disappointed by Cedar Point. As for Gadv/Hershey, I've been to Gadv upwards of a dozen times in 2014. El Toro is worth a long trip alone, and is my favorite coaster, above I-305. On top of this, you have an old school B&M hyper and the talles t coaster and drop tower combo. Gadv is a great day with low crowds or a flash pass. I haven't been to Hershey, but it is on my list of nearby parks to go to. Skyrush looks incredible- comparable to I-305, I would assume. The other Intamins and Great Bear all look very good. At the end of the day, do what interests you most. If it were me, I'd be hard pressed between two and three. Set your priorities straight, maybe list which coasters you want to ride most and see which place offers the best combination. Have an awesome trip, Im super jealous!

Just some input on the curving vs straight drop debate, there is a reason El Toro's drop feels steeper than a drop like MF (although MF's drop is slightly curved, but the drop radius is far greater).

I actually really dislike Goliath's drop. I don't like being firmly planted in my seat and watching the ground approach. From my experienced, the more parabolic drops create an increasing sense of weightlessness and free fall until they hit the pull-out. Part of the problem may be that it's not very steep though. It would be interesting to experience the ramp-style drop on something much steeper. Like a Dive Machine? Or Dragster/Ka/Superman (SFMM) to an extent.

I really like KD, don't get me wrong, but I'm not sure I completely agree with that quote. I haven't been to KI, so I can only speak for KD and Cedar Point, but KD does have one of the best rides in the world (I-305), some good supporting coasters (Volcano, Dominator, FoF, Grizzly), and then a bunch of average, some mediocre coasters. In my experience, that is not the case at all with Cedar Point. You have your world-class rides (MF and Maverick), the very, very good supporting coaster (Raptor, GateKeeper, Dragster), and the better "other" coasters (WT, Rougarou?), but none of CP's coasters "suck" in any sense of the word, other than maybe Mean Streak on a bad day. Just my opinion. I see what you're saying though, and I really do like KD.

Including the pullout, assuming you are including until the decent angle is zero, I would guess in the ballpark of 320 - 350 feet.

Fury in itself is a good name, but the 325 makes it a little cheesy. I don't like Cedar Fair's trend of incorporating ride height into the name. I can't figure out if all of the aspects of this hobby keep getting cheesier and younger, or if I'm just getting older. I don't personally have any problem with it. I would be fine with or without it. At least they didn't tack on the numbers in Dragtser's name

I am ecstatic with the potential opportunity to ride this coaster next summer. That looks "wicked."

I've had a few *decent* rides on Apocalypse (by stand up coaster standards), but the majority of the time, the coaster is approaching unrideable. If the coaster didn't *look* nice, or wasn't in a very central location, I'm sure it would have the lowest ridership in the park. There's a reason a major park like SFGam removed a B&M with some history behind it (the first one). I'd actually rather ride Ragin Cajun most days at this point.

I've ridden both Intamin giga counterparts, and while I have the same general opinions about each ride (MF is not very forceful, but has it's moments, I-305 is balls to the wall intensity and some airtime), I actually slightly prefer Millennium Force. I know, I know, enthusiasts say it's overrated, "Millennium Forceless." However, IMO, the ride experience is very well rounded and probably the most re-rideable coaster I've ridden. I had some truly incredible night rides in August that really tipped the scales and solidified my opinion. Those rides gave me that tingly feeling, that feeling from the olden days when MF was seen as THE coaster, or when you drive up the CP causeway for the first time. My point is, intensity isn't everything. Fury 325 looks to be a very solid coaster from the renderings and stats. Let's wait until we ride it to judge it.

From the posts you made earlier, it appears you've never ridden Raging Bull, yet somehow you think you can say that it's "an OK hyper coaster". How would you know? Just wondering. Just from facts, discussions, pov's, after all I know a lot about roller coasters. Just a page ago you asked the difference between a hyper and hyper twister. Then you asked what it means to be trimmed, then said Raging Bull is okay, but you want all hypers and gigas to be like Raging Bull,which is nonsensical within itself. I'm sensing conflicting information here...

That is incredible. Thanks for posting those pictures. The profits they earned from yesterday alone (everything from admissions, Flash Pass, parking, food/drink, FF attractions) are probably more than enough to pay for their Super Loop for next year. And then some. Sorry I'm still pretty salty about that. I know it's an off year, but the money could've been utilized elsewhere.

Did you notice if security was higher than it has been over the last few weeks of increased security? I heard on the local (northern VA) news that they are somehow expecting backlash/retaliation from the incident a few weeks back. Also, it is good to hear the park still gets crowds on occasion. I have heard the attendance has been increasing over the past two or three years, but Six Flags for some reason refuses to release how much. I wonder if attendance is anywhere near 1 million by now.

Agreed. SFA has to realize that Apocalypse has not been a success by any means at this point. The GP are well aware that this coaster is absolutely garbage. My last visit earlier this month, which was a completely dead FF Saturday, Apocalypse had between 2 and 4 people per train, when Superman had about a 15 minute wait. SFA desperately needs a new coaster to call their own, and it doesn't have to be 300 feet tall or $30 million, just something smooth, new, and their own.

After a long offseason filled with rumors and speculation, it is finally time to reveal the big news from Frontier Forest in 1989; let's get right to it! Raging Rapids re-opened with the park for the new season, as planned. However, Swan Boats did not return for the 1989 season, becoming the first defunct attraction in park history. The boats will remain in the boneyard for the time being, but their return seems unlikely. New in 1989 is Coyote, an Arrow Dynamics Suspended coaster that interacts with the nearby Raging Rapids water rafting ride. Standing 75 feet tall and reaching speeds of nearly 50 mph over more than 3,200 feet of track, Coyote is Frontier Forest's fifth roller coaster, and is slated to be the park's premier attraction. Comments/criticism is appreciated, that's all for 1989. ~Management, Frontier Forest While Raging Rapids re-opened come opening day, Swan Boats did not return for the 1989 season, becoming the very first defunct attraction in park history. Today, the boats make their new home in the boneyard in backstage areas. The third coaster at Frontier Forest manufactured by Arrow Dynamics, Coyote stands 75 feet tall and reaches speeds of nearly 50 mph over 3,200 feet of track. Raging Rapids closed early in the fall of 1988 to allow for Coyote's construction, as a major portion of the track interacts with the popular rafting ride and the trees overhead. Watch your head; low clearance! The final brake run and transfer track after the second lift of Coyote, which runs three trains of seven cars each, allowing a possible 1,800 riders per hour at max capacity. Even with crowds flocking to the all new Coyote, Forest Flyer consistently draws lines. It seems the wooden coaster could use a fresh paint job after more than a decade of operation. Corvus has not been so lucky, as ridership has declined considerably since its debut in 1984. Bumper Boats closed down before the season concluded, and the boats seem to be removed from the man-made pool. Take that how you will. The big news for 1989 was Coyote. This unique coaster, dubbed a Suspended Coaster, swings freely beneath the track at speeds of nearly 50 mph Hmmm... Overview from the 1989 season. Stay Tuned!

And Iron Wolf is certainly not. I've ridden Iron Wolf nearly a dozen times as Apocalypse at SFA, and on some days induces more headbanging than Mind Eraser. Green Lantern at SFGadv is much smoother, but could be quite a bit better.