ZeroGravity55

^ The more I look at the design of the Boss, I wonder "what the hell can RMC do with it"? I'm curious to see what they do with Medusa down at Six Flags Mexico. There are some similarities between Medusa and the Boss, mainly those big swooping CCI turns that they liked to put on most of their designs.

^ That's what I love about TGG's designs! When maintained, their rides are some of the best in the world. I probably can't emphasize the statement "when maintained" enough though. I'm looking forward to their first big design with Timberliners and to see how that coaster ages.

^Well at least we know that the Happy Valley people are committed to trying to keep the ride up and running in top form. Most American corporate parks wouldn't have re-tracked the ride and probably would have trimmed it.

^ Probably Chinese peoples fear of wooden coasters.

^ But isn't there a hell of a straightaway before it ever reaches the double drop? I've only ridden the Boss a few times and don't really remember that part of the ride to well.

Idk if you followed TPR's last China trip, but I'm pretty sure they said that Fireball is running OMFG amazing. Also remember, it's the park who chooses the trains, not the manufacture or designers. That being said, once TGG feels comfortable with the Timberliners on bigger rides, they're going to probably require all their designs to have them. Kinda like GCI and Millennium Flyers.

Adding 50 feet to the drop would require the lift hill to be steeper and to add structure. I think they only added 10 feet to Texas Giant. As for the Rattler, they didn't have to add structure, but simply remove structure to make the drop bigger. To be quite honest, I think it would be to difficult for them to add 50 feet. The Boss sits on top of the park and probably catches a lot of wind. Adding 10-20 feet to the structure seams quite possible, but adding 50 feet would be difficult. Trying to support that added structure from swaying in the wind would be the hardest part, because you would be adding it to the existing structure. I don't know if that makes any sense, but it's really difficult to explain. As for making it work as a hyper, that would be something the park doesn't have. But it would be difficult to gauge weather the GP would be more drawn to a hyper or a looping coaster.

Here's an article that kind of explains the ownership history of the park and details about how the family feud started. http://newsandtribune.com/local/x6224479/Family-feud-rattles-Holiday-World I will say this, no matter what, Dan will still own at least 40% of the corporation and park. They'll eventually have to settle things. I don't know what Dan's personal interest are right now, but he did play a behind the scenes role with park before Will died. He's said that him and Will would talk about the park and the parks future daily. He said one of the last conversations he had with Will, played into the descion to build Mammoth. Here's a Holiblog from 2009 With Will, Dan, Lori, and Mrs. Koch at IAAPA. Obviously,these were much better times for the family and the park. http://www.holidayworld.com/holiblog/family-rides-together

^ Just remember, corporate decides what the budget is. If they're sick and tired of paying for The Boss's maintenance costs, they're going to give it the conversion. The conversion will pay for itself in the long run and that's probably how corporate views it as well. Just because the line for Boss is long, doesn't mean the people thoroughly enjoy the ride. The reason American Thunder is much shorter is because it's a much shorter ride and has a more hourly put through. It doesn't make any sense for them to convert American Thunder, since it doesn't cause as much maintenance issues as the Boss. New trains don't solve all of a coasters problems (read Robb's thoughts on Hades 360 in the midwest trip report). The reason Six Flags is doing these conversions is, 1. It cuts almost all maintenance costs, which saves Six Flags money, and 2. It allows them to create a new and better ride, which makes them money. Not to say your not entitled to your opinion, but you seem to be in the minority when it comes to your views on the Boss and The Texas Giant. Oh as for Rattler, RMC seems to have done a hell of a job turning a ride that has a lot of "turns", into a airtime machine.

At this point, I really don't care if it's Dan or Lori running the park. I just want them to resolve the issue so we can all stop talking about it and get Mrs. Koch back into a more public role in the park. I've really missed seeing her greeting guest this season as you walked into the park. Everybody wants to see a Intamin Mega-Lite, but I would prefer to see a custom design. I'm really intrigued by what MACK might be able to give HW. A family launched coaster like Cheetah Hunt (which I know is Intamin) with a couple of inversions would really fit the park well. If the park goes with MACK, that means no over the shoulder restraints, plus a couple of really cool side features. Since HW likes to set a few world records along the way, I could see them going for the world's longest launched coaster or something like that.

If you can, try visiting in the earlier part of HW's season. Not only do all the coasters run better earlier, but the park is whole lot less crowded and a lot more enjoyable. The only downside is one-train operation on all the coasters. Typically, The Voyage is a 3 train wait in the morning and right around 4 p.m. when it's not that crowded. The other two coasters are either a one train wait or a walk-on. Be careful if you visit before school typically gets out, while the crowds might be light, the kids who come on field trips can get rather annoying.

^ 2010 and 2011 were most definitely the roughest years the Voyage has had. Last year was definitely better, but this year was probably the best it's been since 2006, for me. That was in May and The Voyage only gets rougher over the course of the season. I was there the last week of June and it was still sort of re-rideable. Of course, I'm young and can take a pretty good beating. I'm gonna try and make it out to Happy Halloween Weekends, so I'll see how it's still holding up then. As for the trains, I'm still hopeful they can make some difference, considering HW takes much better care of their roller coasters compared to Mt. Olympus or so I've read.

I think it was kind of premature of the Gravity Group to say that the trains would make a coaster smooth (old or new), before they ever had a chance to ride them. I guess I can see where they thought it would make sense logically, since the trains are supposed to "steer through turns" and utilize individual seat suspensions. Now my question is, was that new track design on the inversion (with the 10 inch steel) just for the inversion? Or is that something the Gravity Group is going to start using on their new bigger coasters that feature the Timberliners? ^That's probably more of a question for IAAPA.

^ Given Holiday World's history with the Gravity Group, I don't think that would happen.

^I would love to see the parks coaster count go up too, just as long as it isn't a Boomerang that brings it up! I was trying to make the point that the RMC I-Box conversion would make the Boss a brand new coaster. Given RMC's success on Texas Giant, and Iron Rattler, the conversion could give SFStl the signature steel coaster some people say they lack. Of course, most of those people are probably coaster enthusiasts. The GP probably views Batman as a signature steel coaster and doesn't realize the ride's design is cloned throughout most Six Flags parks and other parks throughout the world.

Are you crazy!? Have you not seen what RMC has done to Texas Giant and Iron Rattler? Texas Giant is a top 3 steel coaster in the Mitch Hawker and top 5 in the Golden Tickets. I'm sure Iron Rattler is going to be in the top 10 too. If RMC does the conversion, it would become a whole brand new ride, and the park could market the ride as a whole brand new ride and not even have to lie (ex. Mt. Olympus and Hades 360). RMC has said that Texas Giant and Iron Rattler is barely pushing the limits of what they can do with their track. So I'm assuming with each design that they do, it's only going to get crazier. The park has more to gain with a conversion of the Boss than leaving the coaster as it currently stands. Plus, It doesn't look like corporate as a whole lot of interest in expanding Six Flags St. Louis beyond the current boundaries. Remember, Boomerang took the place of the Bumper Cars.

If I read correctly, I believe they said that testing was supposed to resume after the daily season. If that's the case, it would be after next Wednesday. I don't think they left out the possibility of them being ready for Happy Halloween Weekends. That being said, I think they should wait until next year if they're ready. I'm sure the Voyage is really rough right now with it being August, so I think it would be wise for the park to wait until after they do some off-season track work (hopefully a complete re-track). I think people would come away pretty disappointed with the ride they give if they throw them on this fall, especially after reading Robb's thoughts on the Timberliners on Hades 360. The main problem I see is, that Holiday World would be non-committal to a complete re-track job if they're not 100% sure the TL's are ready to go next spring by the end of this season. I don't think they should put them on until they know the TL's can actually reduce maintenance cost.

That was my post, and I have no idea what happened to it. I think someone already answered it, but the longer the ride is closed, the less money the park makes. The reason Texas Giant took so long was because they didn't cut any significant length off of what was there and as someone said, it was a prototype. When they did Iron Rattler, they cut out those two huge helix's and completely rebuilt one section of the ride, which cut a significant amount of time off the rehab.

Let me put it like this. If hacking the helix is what it takes to get RMC in there, then get rid of it. Seriously though, while some of you think the Boss is a good ride, why wouldn't you want a awesome RMC creation? It could quite possibly give the park the signature coaster everybody says they lack.

You're exactly right. While all of us would like to see something added to the dry park, it doesn't make sense for HW as a business to do so. People go to HW because of the waterpark, so it makes sense for them to continue to direct a good amount of their money to that area. I've said this before and I speculate that we will see the next expansion of the dry park when HW is about ready to hit 1.5 million visitors. They did this with the Voyage and Thanksgiving section to push them over 1 million visitors. I could be wrong, but that's just my thinking behind the whole dry park vs waterpark expansion debate.

In 2012, They added Sparkler They've added several small flat rides to the dry park since 2006. Just nothing that would entice any of us.

Here's my opinion about the Boss. Go with the I-Box, who cares if it's wooden or not as long as the ride is fun. If RMC significantly shortened Rattler, but made it 10x better, I bet that can do the same for the Boss. To me the, the mid-course break run and the Helix are pointless, so get rid of them. Add some height, and make the drop beyond 80 degrees. Then spice up the double-down a bit, and make that first CCI swooping turn into a overbanked turn beyond 90 degrees. Then try and turn that second CCI swooping turn into huge a corkscrew, and keep the air-time hills on the way back to the station. Have the turn that would have started the helix, but then have it go into a barrel-roll straight into the break run to complete the ride, kinda like Outlaw Run. This would take place of the double-up. Lol I know that was kinda lengthy, but that's how I imagine the Boss after any kind of RMC make-over. A lot of structure and track would have to be removed and some structure would have to be added, but the ride would be 10 times better. As I said before, shorten the ride and have RMC do some awesome stuff with it. It will definitely be better than the original Boss.

Yeah that was basically what it was about and I expected that. I think it makes a lot of sense for them to try and improve their guest experience before they go and build a bunch of rides out on their remaining undeveloped land. Even if it's a bunch of small things like a bigger first aid building or a bigger entry plaza for Splashin' Safari. While most of us will overlook these things and wish they would build the next great coaster, these are the type of things that need to be done to allow something like the next great coaster to be built. Oh and I can't wait for Paula to start dropping her clues! It's getting around that time of the year.

Yeah I am an architect and these plans are for sure real. Now that being said that doesn't mean this is the final layout (or the layout at all) of the ride, but it's definitely actual drawings. And based on the sheet setup and names of the sheets it appears that this set is far beyond the stage o f schematic design for the ride and is a construction set meaning it is fully designed and engineered. As for the misspelling, you'd be surprised. We get drawings from engineers, surveyors, etc. all the time with spelling mistakes. And we send drawings to permit and then realize there are spelling mistakes. These drawings are made by humans, and therefore spelling mistakes happen. It very well may not be the final layout. I know The Gravity Group likes to tweek their designs while the ride is being built. Of course, every company has their own way of doing things.

And the waterpark is still growing! Seriously though, this award just goes to show how great Holiday World's PR department is. On a side note, HW is sending out a survey tomorrow in their e-newsletter. Seems like a lot of parks have been sending out surveys recently, so I'm interested to see what it's about!