ZeroGravity55

^ This is my home park and I'm very passionate about it. Some times I come across as a little argumentative, but that comes from participating in college classes where open debates were welcomed. I do it all for the fun as well, plus it keeps the discussion on this thread going. As I said before, I'm not trying to make anybody go along with what I'm saying. I'm just making realistic observations based on what the park as given us and what we've found independently. It could be a launched flyer, it could be a launched terrain looper. I could care less as long as it is awesome!

^ I know you didn't. My original post was in response to another post saying there was no solid evidence that this could be a launch. I felt I needed to explain that to properly respond to your post.

Solid evidence that this could be..... so that's not 100% sure then. Did I say 100%? My point was that you can't just dismiss the fact that it can't be launched coaster because B&M hasn't built one. We have an article saying that an LSM launched coaster is the next coaster type that B&M is adding to their portfolio. To me, that is solid evidence. Not saying it is 100%, but it is enough to be able to make a realistic guess that this might indeed a be a launched coaster.

^ They had left over slide pieces sitting out by a maintenance building last year, but I can't remember the colors of them.

^ The footers are square and have a almond cutout. B&M is the only coaster manufacturer that uses that footer design. Translated- The words are a bit mixed up. "The Swiss finally take the LSM launch coaster in their portfolio. In recent years seemed B & M this trend has missed." http://www.coastersandmore.de/rides/achterbahnneuheiten2014/achterbahnneuheiten2014.shtml We have solid evidence that this could be a B&M launched coaster. Granted, it doesn't say where, but it does say that they're going to be designing one at some point. Could be now, could be later.

^ I guess we'll see. Only two more days!

^ Maybe I like to argue Seriously though, most of my arguments come from the fact some people don't think HW will build a flyer, but the evidence is there support it. I never said I was right and your guess is just as good as mine, but just know the evidence is there. HW used the the main color of teal in their 66 days at sea campaign photos. There is is teal track sitting at the B&M plant for a invert/flyer. Coincidence? There are references to birds and flying in the journal, as in a flying coaster. Coincidence? There over 10 references to starring at clouds in the journal, as you would be in a lying down launch. Coincidence? Would that be a worlds first? Yes. Would that be unique? Yes. I could be wrong and I'm certainly not trying to make people agree with me. If they do, great! If they don't, that is great as well! All it does is add to the speculation. You ask how is it more daring? Best way I can think of is that only place that could offer you launch like the one I'm predicting would be NASA. Granted, you'll be launched in a different direction at NASA and it wouldn't be in the open air.

^ Because it is different, it is unique and it has never been done before. It would basically be a gimmick that the GP would absolutely eat up. Not that a normal launched flyer wouldn't do the same thing with the GP, but the more daring it sounds, the more people you're going to draw in.

That is almost exactly what I'm predicting. Not saying I'm right, I'm just making the best possible guess with the facts, clues, and evidence I could find. This is where the lying down/backwards launch comes into play. It will essentially become a non-inverted track launch at that point.

Last time I was there, they had dug a tunnel/pit right next to Hyena Falls and there were survey markers that went all the way up to edge of the sidewalk going up to Hyena Falls. They're not gonna move Hyena Falls, that would simply just cost too much, especially when your only going to move it probably right next to Kima Bay (If they were to move it). I think they're going to go ahead and bust all the concrete by PP, splashdown area, sidewalks and ext. I think they're going to redo that whole section. The Pathway for Hyena Falls goes over the one for what used to be PP. I think what is going end up happening is that the pathway for new ride is going to go underneath (like a tunnel) the one for Hyena Falls and will go up to the station. This way, they can separate the entrance for Splashin' Safari and try and figure out a clear boundary line for both parks. I'm guessing that Hyena Falls is probably going to be the end of line for as far out as the waterpark will go and the dry park will eventually occupy that whole side by the highway. Now that doesn't mean that they are done with the waterpark, as they can still continue to expand back behind Kima Bay, Bakuli, Mammoth, and Wildebeest until they reach the campground property line. I completely agree for the reasons you've listed, the reasons I've listed in my final prediction post, and because of other information. Glad someone else said it and not me! A few questions, how does Thunderbird relate to Thanksgiving, and how does the park theme it such a way that explains that question to their guests? I know the mentions in the journal to birds and the storms, but how do they theme in such way that it makes sense to their guests that it is in the Thanksgiving section? Essentially, I just asked the same question twice, but I wanted to clarify what I was asking.

^ Exactly. It would have been poured with the footers. I never really thought there was going to be one. Just checked the construction cam. The concrete trucks are there early this morning pouring more footers.

The Voyage part II, that is my guess The name is the one thing the park has me truly confused on at this point in the campaign. They could go several different ways. In all seriousness though, I feel like the this 66 days at sea campaign would have been perfect for when they announced The Voyage. It wouldn't have worked at the time though, as it would have given away the whole Thanksgiving section expansion.

I've decided that if this thing is going to be a flyer, I want it to sort of be like this.

^ The building is completely closed on every side except the the one facing the camera, so it is definitely not a station.

I'm pretty sure they have been. Much like they have been in front of the camera, they've been working there way out of that back clearing as well. For what it's worth, there gonna have to have footers in that area to get into that clearing. ^Edit: Took the words right out of my mouth..That is not a station. That opening is more than likely for a garage door of some type. I still think it is a computer control room for the LSM technology.

^ They don't work on the weekends. From what I can tell today, they've been building the frames for some tall footers in those large holes they dug on Friday. If you look, you can see where they did that. I took a screen shot last week and noticed something, and that seems to be where they were they were focused today as well. Notice that concrete truck along the tree line? They've been pouring footers there as well. That is almost right on that road they've been driving in on.

^ My original post was never really about the roller coasters, but every major attraction in general. Neither was it about about building the biggest or worlds first. It was about how they build something bigger and better than they did before. This whole perception started with The Raven being voted the #1 wooden roller coaster in the world. The park tried to top that with The Legend by including coaster enthusiast input, they sort of missed on it as extreme laterals are not really appealing to some enthusiasts. In 2006, it was very clear from the moment they announced The Voyage, that they were trying to build the best wooden coaster on the planet. A wooden coaster of that size, length, layout, and intensity was almost unthinkable at that time. From that point on, the park has made it a point to try and build either the best, the tallest, the longest, or the first of some kind. Look at every major attraction they've announced since then, they all did or still do hold one of those things I just listed. They try to continue to build something bigger and better. It is what they do.

Both of those are from oversea manufacturers. B&M makes there track in the USA. It will not cost a lot to ship to holiday world. Helix is generally very high off the ground and also Europe has insanely high taxes so helix cost a lot. It also had topography going against it. Maverick on the other hand was new technology with 5 trains and it uses a very expensive track system which almost doubles the amount of steel for that then what B&M track would cost. YOLOcoaster cost 7 million had 2 launches of 70 mph and 2200 feet of track on a hillside. Now triple YOLOcoaster and all of a sudden you got 6 launches and 6600 feet of track. So if Holiday world wants 6,000 feet for 22 mil they will get it. How was Maverick a new track system? I believe the track was the exact same track that they used on every single one of their coasters up until Intimidator 305 and Skyrush when they switched to the double spined track. Are you talking about the launch system? Yeah it may have been new, but it is still really expensive today. As someone mentioned already it is more expensive than a lift. It has more complex technology than a lift chain, which means it should be more expensive. I hate to tell you this, launch or no launch, HW won't get 6,000 feet for 22 million, when you can't even get 6,000 feet for 28 million out of a B&M giga coaster. For the record, B&M has never even built a roller coaster over 6,000 feet.

^LSM launch technology is kind of expensive, like more expensive than lift hills. 2007 Maverick-2 launches, 4,450 feet of track-21 million. 2014 Helix- 2 launches, 4,500 feet-32 million. Just to put this into more respective, B&M's one Giga coaster only has 5,500 feet of track and it costed 28 million. For this ride to have 6,000 feet worth of track, it's going to need at least two launches to get through the course. No matter how low you stay to the ground, the polyurethane wheels will eventually absorb the needed energy to complete the course, which is why it would need two launches. In today's market, price inflation would drive the cost up. Just look at Helix compared to Maverick. Now would I love for this ride to have 6,000 feet worth of track, of course, but unless B&M gives HW a bargain (which is very unlikely), it's just not happening.

6,000 feet of track would be a tad bit too much for a 22 million dollar price tag, don't you think?

^ I don't know if that pertains to just this ride or future rides, but I think the consensus is that HW is getting a B&M. I've read some interesting things about how HW feels about Intamin, so I do agree with you that I don't they'll be purchasing Intamin any time soon.

The Raven- #1 wooden roller coaster on the planet 1999-2003 The Voyage- Most seconds of airtime on any coaster on the planet- #1 wooden roller coaster 2007-2012 Pilgrims Plunge- opened as the world tallest water ride Wildebeest-opened as the worlds longest water coaster-#1 waterpark ride on the planet since 2010 Mammoth-world longest water coaster- top 3 in the worlds best waterpark ride poll Splashin' Safari-#2 waterpark on the planet Holiday World and Splashin' Safari-Cleanest park and Friendliest staff multiple times. The park as won the "Applause Award", which is considered a very high honor in the amusement industry. The park advertises all of these things around here, and this where that expectation comes from. Get where I'm coming from? Quote from Leah Koch on Holiblog about her father, Will Koch: "Dad liked to build really great things, often the first of their kind."

I edited my post to kind of clarify what I was saying.

^ Mr. Freeze Reverse Blast. The GP loves it at SFSTL and I'm sure they do at SFOT. I didn't find it uncomfortable at all. If you have a bad back, maybe, but if you're lying down, that shouldn't be a problem. I mean they do that pretzel loop where you go through the pull out backwards lying down at a high speed and that is regarded as one of the best elements of the flyers.

Really? So they cant market a world class, thrilling launch coaster? Holiday World will be aiming at us enthusiasts as well as the general public. The general public wont care if the ride is a first or not. As long a the coaster is great, they'll love it and holiday world can easily market both types you've mentioned. I'll have my final prediction as a sitdown, terrain lunch coaster. I think it'll be B&M, so I hope it's intense. As I've said before, it is kind of expected for HW to build a first or build the biggest and best. I told somebody the other day at work who was talking about how HW had the top wooden roller coaster in The Voyage that The Voyage was no longer the top wooden roller coaster. Their response, "Oh I'm sure HW will just build something bigger and better." I hear comments like that from people about HW all the time. I never said that they couldn't market a sit-down launched coaster, I said they couldn't advertise the worlds first B&M launched coaster to the public. That wouldn't register to the GP. They have no idea who B&M is. When you market the worlds first flying (backwards lying-down) launched coaster, that makes people want to drive all the way from Ohio, Louisville, Nashville, Northern Illinois, and St. Louis to come ride the thing. The GP will eat it up. As I've said before, I don't really want a flyer, and I would prefer what you've predicted. But I'm afraid the clues and physical evidence outweigh what me or you may want. Is it a coincidence that the color the park used in the 66 days campaign photos is teal and there is teal track sitting at the B&M plant for a flyer/invert. Is it a coincidence that there are multiple references in the journal to birds and flying? Is it a coincidence that there are multiple references to starring at the clouds, as you would do in a launch lying down? Finally, something I just realized today, there are multiple references to having to turnaround and go back, as in turning around and going backwards. Is that a coincidence? Who said they had to be lying down to board? I know I suggested that, but they could have riders board like normal flyers and have a opening like Hydra. Then they would be put on their back for a launch.