scottm13

^ It could be possible that in operations mode it can only be run like that, but anything can be bypassed when maintenance is running the ride.

I've been with someone who's gotten an EAP pass at several Six Flags parks and at a few Cedar Fair parks (Kings Island, WoF...), and I've never noticed any of this. There was always either never a line to get the pass, or maybe one person ahead. And the lines at the rides were usually maybe a dozen people max (and often less). I agree that a lot of people do abuse it, but it's never caused an issue for me, as a regular rider. As mentioned, it's not a cut in line pass, it's just waiting in a different location. And I think people will easily forge doctors notes. Next time you're at Walmart, notice how all the handicap spots are full. There are a lot of certain people who have the handicap placards now, too many for them to all be for a legitimate reason, so they'll have no problem getting doctors notes. So I don't really have a problem with or without the policy, but don't think it's going to help much. And I think there'll be longer lines at guest services now than before this policy.

Yes, they do. Check out Thunderbird. Other recent dive machines have used the same.

Do they still do that stupid at Six Flags parks? To me it seems like something that could possible work against it's intention, as it would be extremely easy for the operators to focus more on the actual movement than actually looking... You're exactly right, for the actual operators, it's useless and distracting. The primary purpose of that procedure is actually just to increase the perception of safety by the guests. Same as their new "locked" or "check" procedure at all SF parks. They're trying to get people to vote higher on their visit surveys for ride safety, but it serves virtually no purpose other than that.

Sending an empty train during a downtime is a stressful situation? These kids wouldn't last 1 day operating a fast-paced Disney attraction. Also, whether or not the child was in direct danger is completely irrelevant. It's a safety policy violation and trying to justify it is dumb. Period! To be honest, the way you're defending them makes it sound like you work on said crew. Universal and Disney are 2 theme park operators that allow guests on the dock of coasters when trains are in motion as long as they're past the yellow lines. SF and CF do not allow guests on a coaster dock when a train is in motion. I'm not defending what happened. I'm saying there's no reason to go and tell someone about it just to get the crew in trouble. I said it's a stressful situation because it is, for most of the kids that work at Six Flags. They're thinking alot more about just sending an empty train, so they missed something. For an experienced ride operator or someone who works at a Disney park, where operations and training is in a different world than at a Six Flags park, you're right, it would literally mean nothing at all. It may be a safety violation, but it's a minor one at that. Calling it a serious issue and acting like they did something horrible while debating with yourself whether you'll be able to live with yourself is just being dramatic.

I'm sorry, but no. Crap operations and long dispatches aren't something I feel inclined to complain to a supervisor about, no matter how obnoxious they are. Somebody on the platform next to a moving train? That's unacceptable. Six Flags operators do one of the most overstated visual scans out there, and somehow all of them missed a child right in front of them? That's a serious lapse in safety protocol. Your 'stressful situation' excuse is, quite frankly, complete bull. Nobody would give them that pass if the kid got an arm pinned between the platform and the train, which is completely possible in this situation. And that speaks right to your point that the child was never in danger - wrong. All the 'stressful situations' people deal with on a daily basis and pull off without a hitch, and some teenagers can't properly push 18 lap bars down and then regain their composure long enough to check for a human in front of them? Come on. Have you even been to a subway or train station? That's far more dangerous than standing on a coaster platform. Coaster trains can stop in an instant entering or leaving the station. You do realize that coasters used to not have airgates or exit gates at all, right? That policy only exists because if someone did do something stupid and hurt themselves, there could be a potential lawsuit. The operators realize their mistake, nothing happened to the child, and I doubt any of the GP thought anything of it. Going out of your way to tell someone that it happened isn't going to do anything than get those team members in trouble. When I was at Holiday World this past summer, two seperate trains got sent out with guests on the platform. One time the kid was standing in the exit, holding the gate open. Those employees consisted of supervisors and adults. Did I go and tell someone that it happened? No, because it's really not as serious as you're making it out to be. Poor operations, on the other hand, is something that I do think is worth speaking to someone about. It's something that directly impacts your experience at the park, and is the park's fault, not a few individuals. That is something that can actually be worked on and improved.

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Oh no they were brutal. The guy at the panel wouldn't even open the gates until the train dropped off the lift and was somewhere over by Mind Eraser and then would cause massive delays by yelling at people for leaving loose articles on the platform. Then the train would be ready to dispatch but the seat checkers wouldn't be paying attention and he's have to yell their names and point to their positions like he had just decided hitting interval was a priority. Then at the end of the night he was yelling at this kid to leave (another employee, probably against the child labor law clock as a few ops were talking about that) and as soon as the kid left one of the higher ups came over and stood behind the panel and for the rest of the night this guy was acting like he was a Gatekeeper op or something who was obsessed with capacity. He looked like an NFL quarterback pointing and barking orders at everyone else to hurry up and get in position so they could get the trains out even though all day he couldn't possibly be bothered to even open the damn air gates. Yeah I've noticed Bizarro's crew is either very on point or extremely slow. Earlier this year, I witnessed the crew being very sluggish and you could sense their lack of concern. The ride went down for technical difficulties so they put everyone on the ride back in line. The crew then sent an empty train with a child still standing on the platform. They noticed she was there after they had already dispatched the train. That's like a HUGE safety violation. I almost wanted to say something about it a higher up but didn't feel like ratting out the crew. But on other days, they'll have trains ready to dispatch well before the system allows them to dispatch. And yeah, opening the air gates as soon as the train parks is major towards getting great numbers. That's just one of many things you have to do though, like paying attention lmao. The child was in no danger whatsoever. The crew made a mistake because it was a stressful situation. It shouldn't have happened, but there's no reason to go and speak to someone about it. You go to a theme park to enjoy yourselves, so don't get so worked up about something that has nothing to do with you.

That's exactly the type of thing the law is designed to prevent. "It's the guests fault...they didn't bother to find the policy hidden on our website (you have to find the link on the guest relations section of the 'plan your visit' drop down, so it's not out in the open) or take extra time out of their day to call because they are disabled." That's not really the issue. The issue is whether or not it is legal for Six Flags to ask for the note. Not only might it be a violation of HIPAA to ask for medical certification you are disabled, it's also borderline discrimination. Let's say that you look like you might have a knee problem because you are walking slow. Ride Operator asks if you have read the warning signs...you say yes...he takes your word for it. No doctors note required to prove you are healthy enough to ride the ride. Your situation is correct. If someone looks pregnant and they say they have read the warning signs, nothing can be done. They are boarding the ride from the regular entrance. But here they are asking for a pass that allows them to board through a separate entrance, so it can be treated differently. They're not denying them from being able to ride, they cannot obtain the pass because they did not bring a doctor's note. Everyone who wants a pass has to bring a note, so no one is being discriminated against. And its hardly hidden. Type 'Six Flags disability pass' into google. The information is the first link. SF is trying their best to get the word out too, its not like they're keeping it a secret. They sent it out in their email newsletter and they're telling everyone who asks for a pass until the policy takes effect.

I don't understand the debate here. This is a clear win-win for everyone, and not a money-grab by Six Flags. Those who are against this obviously have not seen what has become of the EAP at Six Flags. I know someone who works at one of the parks and they say that the EAP is the most stressful aspect of their job. On busy days, the lines in the exits of coasters are sometimes upwards of 30-60 minutes long. And that's not counting the 30-60 after the last ride that you waited before you could make your way up the exit. The lines just to get the passes are upwards of an hour long as well. The passes have become so abused that many of the people who use it don't even refer to it as any type of disability pass, but rather a flash pass. I know personally teenagers that admit that they abuse it just because its so easy to get, even though they admit that have no disability whatsoever. When schools take trips to the parks, usually almost every single group of kids will go and get an EAP. So many people use the pass, that many coasters have a specific person who signs the passes and boards the riders from the exit. In fact, the EAP is a reason that capacity has gotten far worse over the past five or so years at SF parks. If there was less EAP traffic, (which there will now be), they could use that person for something else on the platform to increase capacity, and there won't be as many people boarding from the exit, which slows down operations. Let's just say that I'm someone with a disability. I get to the park around 12-1, when it is starting to get busy. I need an EAP, so I go and get in line for one, and get one after 45 minutes. The assigned wait time for the day is 40 minutes. So now I wait 40 minutes and start making my way up the exit, where I now see that there is a line in the exit of about 40 people that have an EAP. So now I have to wait another 30 minutes before I can even get on the ride. So because of the current state of the pass, I just had to wait two hours from the time that I got in line to get the pass to when I could finally get on my first ride. The point of ADA is so that persons with disabilities can have a theme park experience that is very similar to the one that a normal guest would have. If I were a typical guest, I could have gotten on multiple rides by the time that they got on one. I feel that if you are a guest who is going to be visiting a SF park, knowing that you are going to be using the disability pass, it is your responsibility to look up information about the pass on their website or call the park, so that you know what you have to do to receive a pass. So if you arrive to the park and then cannot obtain a pass because you don't have a note, it is partially their fault for not looking up what they need ahead of time. Disabled guests who regularly visit the park and utilize the EAP will be grateful of this new policy, because it means that the process will be much easier for them. Regular guests who visit the park will be grateful of this new policy, because it means a shorter wait in line for them. I don't see how anyone could be negatively impacted by this. Getting a doctors note is as easy as shooting an email to your doctor and having them fax or email it to you. People won't be able to forge their own notes, SF will have a system in place ensure authenticity. I see this as a win for everyone, and look forward to being able to experience the results of this policy in person once it is in effect.

It will ride on underwheels as long as the forces on the train are trying to move it up against gravitational force. This can happen on a flat surface or a parabolic one depending on how the fast the train approaches it going uphill. Additionally, you'll see trains that primarily end up running on side wheels depending on the surface. It is my understanding that many of the changes made to Voyage since opening year were to make those sorts of transitions move more fluidly by reducing stress points on the ride. My belief is that a lot of this has been done to MS, but that the manner in which it is operated negates those gains. There's a much, much better description of what I'm saying that was done by Dave Altoff and can be found with a fairly quick google search. He's fairly well educated on the topic and is a certified ride inspector. But basically the argument that "trims will save maintenance cost" is largely theoretical and flawed. Maybe I'm a slight bit slow, but I don't think any coaster runs primarily on it's upstops or side frictions. The main wheels carry most of the load which is why they are the largest. The forces your talking about don't happen going uphill. It happens when the track direction changes and Newton's first law is applied creating positive, negative, or lateral gs or any combination of the three. The surface has nothing to do with it, especially since all coasters run on a steel surface.The only way to reduce stress on a structure/point is increasing support and/or decreasing the amount of force applied to that point, which is what trims are doing by slowing the train. Newton's First law is that an object at rest stays at rest and an object in motion stays in motion. I'm not really sure what you're trying to say here. I think that instead of going off what you think, you should read the article that was posted and more about how physics actually works.

What would the key be doing differently more reliably than the button? I'm not disagreeing with you that it is fail safe. Just think about it. If somehow an E-Stop failed, there is still another way to cut power to the ride. If there was not a key in the panel and in some instance where the E-Stop fails and doesn't prevent something from happening, there is potential for a lawsuit. Because they could make the argument that if there had been a key in the panel that it wouldn't have happened. Its the same logic behind the Texas Giant lawsuit. They claimed that if Six Flags had installed seat belts then it wouldn't have happened, and to them there is no reason why there shouldn't be seat belts.

[attachment=0]Picture 002.jpg[/attachment] Better photo from when it was first installed. Its interesting to note the difference in the amount of key-switches and buttons on the newer photo. Along with the E-Stop guard which I assume was installed because people were pressing it when reaching for the phone. Wait what? Why would the E-stop not work? What kind of situation would mean it didn't work? Those are generally fail safe. And a "true" estop cuts power to the entire attraction (save for maybe the PLC itself) anyway. It is just an added redundancy.

Newer coasters at SFGAm utilize two types of lockouts, a lift lockout and a ride control lockout. Older coasters use the cover on the dispatch button because ride operators cannot restart their own rides, so half the rides would open late every day just because they were waiting for someone to restart the ride after the morning trackwalk. The flaw to this system is that everything short of advancing trains is still possible, so if there was a train stopped in a block or on the lift it could still be cleared and move again.

From what I understand its numbers are embarrassingly low. But the flash pass policy is done for all new rides because people would just reserve it over and over and clog up the line.

[attachment=0]6590136467_b8c7ac02b2_o.jpg[/attachment] Its a side view, but you can get the general gist of it with this picture. 99% sure this is the best picture of it currently on the internet...

The two switches at the top of the panel are for the effects in the queue and music, if you still have any.

You probably handled exit traffic while you were at maximum staffing and stayed at the panel, right? You wouldn't be able to do that from the main panel. I'm sure a few years ago there was a configuration of staffing where it was used but it was probably removed in the past few years. Just a question, did the panel require a key (Ride start enable) to restart the ride or did you only have yo hold the ride start?

For some reason Six Flags corporate does not allow the main panel to be unattended for an operator to check restraints. If there is a remote panel, like on most batman clones and many wooden coasters throughout the chain, then the operator can leave the panel and check restraints. I'm sure in your SOP it says that with a certain amount of team members on platform then the main panel is used and not left unattended. It's basically so they don't have to staff one additional person. I guess their thinking is that if the ride needed to be stopped, if there wasn't a remote panel the operator would have to travel a longer distance and potentially climb stairs to reach the panel.

The reason for the gatekeeper panel change was because the panel, like all other wingrider panels came with the left gate and right gate switch. CP modified the panel so that there was an auto/manual gate switch and an open/close gate button and added the gate switches to the enable panels in the back of the station. So the button/switch was mislabeled so they had to change it.

I'm sure there's considerably more wear to the chain dogs than a B&M coaster where the feeder motors send the train to the lift at the same speed as the chain but like I said, if Boomerangs can do it, then any coaster can. RMC's engineers/programmers took this into consideration when designing TC and I'm sure we will have nothing to worry about. RMC doesn't do the programming. Six Flags does that in house.

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I was talking about the photo eyes that are at the front and back of the station on wing riders that have to be cleared by the operator in order to send trains if someone or something trips them while the train is parked. Not the ones around the ride course. I'm just wondering if those are only on wing riders or if all newer B&M's have them.

HMI (Human-Machine Interface) button on the B&M panels replaced the "Panelview Enable" button. It has been a while since I operated Silver Bullet at Knott's and the only thing Operations (Non-Maintenance personnel) used it for was during power up procedures. In maintenance mode, checking the state of sensors, photo eyes, light curtains (Floorless coasters), opening/closing brakes, you have to use 2 hands for redundancy. Edit: Scott is correct on this as well. Did silver bullet have the photo eyes in front and back of the station? I've seen them on all wingriders and was just wondering if all other B&M's had them too.

The HMI enable buttons? Those are to be able to click things on the touchscreen. There are certain things you can click without holding it (change the page you are viewing ie. operations, errors, restraints, pressed estops, etc.) but when on maintenance screens, acknowledging the photo eyes in the station, or things like that you need to hold it so you don't click anything accidentally. For unlocking harnesses using the touchscreen you must hold the unlock harness button instead. This is what is used for on B&Ms and I'm guessing on other panels its used similarly.