josephcissell

Hey guys, I am planning to visit SFOT for my first time in a couple of weeks either Monday, March 9, or Tuesday, March 10. I know that’s during spring break week in Texas, but that’s when I can go. Given that I am a poor college student, there isn’t really room in the budget for a flash pass, however I could extend my visit to two days at the park if it was really necessary. Having lurked in this thread a good bit over the last year or so, it seems that this park tends to suffer from particularly bad operations, so I am braced for that. Any advice on how to best attack this park or what crowds are historically like during spring break week though? Thanks!

I loved all the gritty ride details over the last page or so. Thanks for sharing! Who else is planning to be there on opening day?

You guys have clearly all missed the boat on 2016. It’s obviously going to be a 200ft Intamin prefab diving Aquatrax.

I'm not sure how to read this. Does this mean that 50% of total attendance is derived from season pass holders or 50% of total gate revenue comes from season pass buyers? Either way I would think upping the season passes a wee bit will add a lot to the bottom line. I am not an accountant, but I read that to mean that 50% of total attendance in 2014 was derived from season pass and membership holders. That’s why I argued that having such a huge pass holder attendance should allow management to focus more on service and operations improvements, which can then be monetized over time through higher pass prices.

Here is the fourth quarter press release from http://investors.sixflags.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=61629&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=2017930. A few things of note to me: -Based on recent additions to parks, it’s not too surprising to see that they only reinvested 9 percent of revenue into new capital projects. I think that speaks both to the level of uncertainty in the business world as a whole right now and just how gun shy Six Flags is from the highly capital intensive Premier days. -Looking at the detailed numbers below this press release on the Six Flags site, you see that they managed to increase guest attendance by 15 percent in the fourth quarter but took a net loss doing so. That could be troublesome for Holiday in the Park, though I hope that is just attributable to additional first year costs incurred from adding HitP to two new parks for 2014. -Not sure if I buy the reasoning that attendance was down 2 percent overall "primarily due to extended school calendars in the first half of 2014 relating to the harsh 2013/2014 winter” but things did look up in the second half of the year. So I guess we’ll see how attendance comes out in the first half of 2015. -It kind of blows me away that their active season pass/membership base is now 50 percent. Reading between the lines, it makes sense to me that they have kept pass prices so low to encourage this high mix, as it adds year to year financial stability to the company. With that stable financial foundation and shareholders happy with the growth of the stock and solid dividends, that unties management’s hands to do things that don’t *immediately* impact the company’s bottom line, like improve service and operations. As service and operations improve, they earn the ability to charge more for season passes. -Maybe I’m in the minority, but I see inklings of what *could* be solid corporate strategy here. Time will tell.

Very interesting feedback. I see responses all over the board here. Thanks for discussion guys. One of the many reasons I love the TPR community. In my admittedly limited perspective, it seems like Six Flags is trying to move in the right direction in many of their parks. It’s just going to take time to overcome the brand damage done throughout the early 2000s. Competition is good for everyone though, and I hope that they do improve their service and quality substantially in the long run.

Interesting responses here. Seems to be a little more good than bad at first glance, though feel free to weigh in and disagree if you haven’t already. Thanks for the love TPR community. *Edited for a grammar mistake.*

I know that Six Flags gets a ton of crap for all kinds of things from understaffing to slow operations to poor food to really just about anything we can find to complain about. I’m sure that many of those complaints are perfectly deserved as well, but I’m curious what your experience as an observant member of the TPR community was like with Six Flags in 2014. There is still much to improve, but at least at my home park of SFOG I definitely saw improvements in guest relations, park cleanliness, and, to a lesser extent, operations in 2014 (as compared to 2013 and 2012). So how was your experience at your respective Six Flags park in 2014? What was good and what was bad, and how was the park overall as compared to your experience in past seasons? Also, please take the poll to better illustrate the community’s experience as a whole.

Six Flags ride ops never do anything regardless. Not from any of my experiences at the parks. At SFOG I have seen people ejected from the park on a couple of occasions for line cutting. Your milage will vary though. As to fast passes, I don’t use them personally. I usually hit off peak days or simply wait in line and appreciate the fact that I was able to enjoy a theme park and rides for the day. I’m an enthusiast for the joy of riding and the joy of being in a park. So I try to pick the slower days, and sometimes you win and sometimes you lose. It’s nice to know that there is a fast pass option available should I ever truly find the need, but at the end of the day, having fun to me doesn’t necessarily require packing 20 rides in to 4 hours.

I think it was the first hill and the turnaround that got topper track. That is correct. The first two drops have been topper tracked for, I believe, the last two seasons now. Drops 3 and 4 simply got new wood for the 2014 season. The net result was a very improved GA Cyclone in 2014 that was actually pretty enjoyable, especially during the first half of the ride. Personally, I would prefer to see SFOG maintain GA Cyclone, rather than giving it the Iron Horse treatment, and to their credit, they’ve done a pretty good job of that the last couple of seasons. That said, SF hasn’t shown any signs of slowing down with the conversions and currently the southeast is still lacking an RMC. So it wouldn’t surprise me at all to see them go that route. As added evidence for something big like an RMC Cyclone conversion, 2016 nicely coincides with five years since our last coaster addition and the year before the park’s 50th anniversary in 2017. I understand your sentiment that GASM is rather uninteresting by modern standards, but it was designed in a completely different era with completely different expectations. As it stands, I don’t think the layout affords enough variety to make an interesting RMC conversion either. Consequently, I would assume that it will continue serving the park best as a classic ride and perhaps a first “big” ride for the kids. As an aside though, I did have the thought that with the addition of HH last year, I’m sure there were also necessary infrastructure upgrades to the back of the park. Perhaps those presumed upgrades to things like water and electrical systems could play into the addition of a launched coaster in the future. Sort of like how Holiday World quietly added a power substation for Thunderbird across the street well before we were aware of what was coming. Just a thought.

Basically everything has been covered here. I would just add emphasis to the fact that early season (Before school is out in mid-May) Sundays are typically fantastic times to visit the park, especially if you can be there at opening. Also, hit DDD as early as you can if it is open in the morning because the line will most likely be one of the worst in the park later in the day.

I saw those lights in Gotham as well and assumed they are for HitP, but I don’t know for sure. As to how many rides/areas are listed on the “What to Expect” page, I believe that SFOG did try a HitP style event at one point in the late 80s and it wasn’t successful. I can only guess that they are playing it pretty conservative on how much they open until they see what attendance is like for this first year. I will certainly be visiting once or twice during HitP to check it out though.

Me too! I think that’s because of the Morgan hyper Superman el Ultimo Escape down at SF Mexico, which has a similar paint scheme.

Yes, they typically open in mid March. This past year opening day was March 16th.

^ Yeah, the single rider lines are basically useless for cutting down on wait times since they’re only in the stations. As to your question about lines, I went around mid-October last year and things were pretty busy, but I had enough time to get everything but Dare Devil Dive, with several rerides on Goliath, Mindbender, and Batman. If you want to ride all the major rides, get there early (I typically shoot for 20 minutes prior to opening as it is common for them to begin letting guests in early) and start with the lowest capacity rides first (Scorcher, DDD, Superman). I pretty much always start with Scorcher because it’s right at the front of the park and typically opens about when they start letting guests in, even if that is early. I would expect crowds to get heavier as the day goes on though and if you’re interested in doing mazes on top of all the major rides, a Flash Pass would be recommended.

And from what i've seen it attracts a lot of GP. The first thing I ever hear when I go to the park with distant family is "Does it have a water park?" and the first thing I hear when I say there is one and it comes with park admission is celebration. It also gets to be one of the most crowded places in the park. I had to wait in lines even when it had rained earlier that day on one of my first visits to the water park. Really the last thing I want to hear in this thread is people complaining about the water park expansion. Not only did it have some really fun slides, it was a smart buisness move. I hear the same thing from my friends. An included water park is a pretty huge value. While HH isn’t something I necessarily enjoy, there is no question that it was smart business and the GP eat it up. Based on my experience of 22 trips to the park in the last three years (6 of which have been this season), it definitely seems like overall attendance is up and HH is a hit, which can only mean good things.

So true. The GP have no idea how well-rounded and generally cared for SFOG is compared to some of the other parks in the chain... Though it does look like SFStl finally got something decent this year with a top notch, state of the art dark ride.

I know that's what Screamscape threw out there the other day, but we’ll see. There is plenty of time for change between now and then. All I’m saying is that RMC is going through the SF chain two parks at a time right now, and I would tend to think that of the remaining parks without a RMC, we would beat out SFDK and SFA. Perhaps 2016 will be the year for SFStl and SFGAdv (though I’m of the mind that it’s kind of silly to add a RMC when you already have one of the best woodies in the world in El Toro) instead of us though. I welcome water park expansion as it means sorter lines for me in the dry park, but I would hope that if they’re going to expand they do it right with a solid slide complex with multiple slides or a big lazy river or something of that nature.

Rip off or not, I for one am excited to see a drop capsule and maybe some extra height added to Cliffhanger. Also, we clearly needed more flats, so the Tilt-A-Whirl and Super Loop seem like solid additions to our lineup. For 2016, I think it has to be time for RMC to make the trip down south. It will be five years since Dare Devil, RMC is obviously making their way through the chain (I believe I read on the SFStl thread that they have exclusive licensing with Six Flags, which makes sense) and that will set us up nicely to celebrate our 50th anniversary in 2017 much like SFGAm is doing for 2015 with the new hotness of their Goliath still nice and fresh.

^ I had the same initial thought of it being a Screamin’ Swing, but the space where the video was shot would be tight I think. The only Screamin’ Swing I’ve been on is Barnstormer at Dollywood, which is 81ft tall and very fun. We definitely need more flats, so I would be happy with a Screamin’ Swing if they can make it fit nicely.

I like the Aqualoop idea. Wikipedia lists them as about 56ft tall, so I suppose the height range is in the ballpark. I would hope if this was a Hurricane Harbor expansion that it would be more than just a slide or two though. A solid lazy river would be really nice.

This S&S 4D free spin idea makes a lot of sense to me. I distinctly remember watching the video of when he visited S&S over the winter and tried the 4D prototype, and I would be inclined to think he might have gotten inside knowledge about where the first one is going that he can't share. For me, the real smoking gun is that we've gotten RMC related hints in terms of the references to Medusa and Goliath, and RMC is the supplier of the 4D free spin track. Since Fiesta obviously isn't getting another iRat, this seems to be about the only way that RMC could be involved. So it all adds up.

Sundays are normally the best days to go but with it being Labor Day weekend, there is a chance for some lines. As far as ride planning I would head straight for Dare Devil Dive since its the youngest coaster in the park. After that head right over to Goliath (its in the same area so that works out). After Goliath, head to the rear of the park and hit up Superman because that line is always a pain, even on the lighter attendance days. After leaving Superman, head to GASM (if you like woodies). If you want the credit, I would then hit up Ninja but make sure you ride in the magic seat (rear car, first row). After that, hit up Scorcher and the Cyclone (again, if you like woodies). Then head on down to Gotham and hit up Batman and Mindbender. As far a Mindbenders crew goes, believe it or not, the reason they are so fast is because they have to be (when there are two trains running). If the returning train gets stopped in the reduction brakes (right before the station), they have to call maintenance. For some reason the reduction brakes do not work as they should, and wont release the train even though the station is clear. It was the same way back in 2005 when I was a rides employee. I remember when I worked at the Mindbender for the first time... The lead told me to 'Haul A**' when it came to checking the lap bars. I didn't understand what he meant, until about mid-day when a guest wanted to de-board right before dispatch. It was then that I saw the reduction brake nightmare. LOL That is fascinating. Thanks for the insight!

Admittedly, of that list I've only been on Kraken, but it turned out to be the surprise hit of my trip down to SWO and BGT this year. The elements are a little more drawn out than 90s B&Ms like Kumba or Montu, but I loved the ride and loved the floorless aspect personally.

Very true. I'm also a fan of 2000 with all the floorless coasters we got, though perhaps I'm in the minority on loving floorless coasters. Kraken at Seaworld Orlando, Superman Krypton Coaster at SFFT, Medusa at SFDK, and Dominator at Kings Dominion (Originally at Geauga Lake), plus Katun the invert over in Italy is a pretty fun line up to me.