Arrow Dynamics fan
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Posts posted by Arrow Dynamics fan
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Are people still convinced we're not getting Flashback? Because everything I've heard indicates we most definitely ARE. Still hoping it's not true and plans have changed or something. Bleh.
Our source is not as certain as he once was. Nothing is definite until Six Flags officially announces it. Just like the purchase of my season pass and season parking. Not to be taken for granted.
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Ding Dong, the witch is dead!
Hopefully the next ride will not be the rib cage breaking experience that the ride has been.
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How Much Is Too Much Airtime
Does not compute!
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I agree with everyone on arrow dynamics. I see it as a tragedy of such a amazing company. Atleast they ended in a bang.
I agree. The thing I would talk about concerning Arrow Dynamics is it is a lesson of how being the innovative benchmarker and segment creator can build you up as a company, but if you don't perfect the design before you release it and strive for continuous improvement and refinements, the bad reputation can lead to your downfall.
No matter how you look at it, Arrow's innovations can still be found today (hyper coasters, corkscrew inversions, etc.) and others have been templates to current attractions (Suspended to the Inverted coaster, 4D to the Winged Coaster).
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I would say that a winged would probably be the most logical move as they are "new" unlike the flying coasters. A floorless would probably not be the way to go due to the close proximity of SFFT. Stand ups time has passed...for now... A giga would be unlikely due to the taller nature of the Titan. I doubt they would go with another Stratacoaster due to the problems with Kingda Ka. A wood may not be a bad idea since the NTaG has steel track. The Outlaw looks quite impressive and only costs around $10 million.
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When I rode Timber Wolf two years ago, I was expecting the worst, but was pleasantly surprised. I liked the ride well enough, thinking it was just lacking "something" to make it "very good" or "great." Maybe topper track is the answer.
I would say that a re-interpretation of the ride might be in order. If perhaps Gravity Group or RMC could make the turns and drops more intense, that would been appreciated. It comes off to me as slow and rough. Some re-tracking couldn't hurt it at the bare minimum.
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I think people forget how unusual of a layout The Beast is from time-to-time.
This is true. It is unlike most other woodies.
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I would say the Adventure Express (KI) due to the great build up on the final lift hill just to reach the end of the ride.
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^^
In all honesty......SFKK could have added something else other than Greezed Lightning and still had an attendance decline. Just because they added a used coaster doesn't mean that was the cause of SFKK's attendance decline. If you're saying a flat ride would be better than a Boomerang.....I'd say give it a chance. A new coaster, although used and a little old is still gonna be an asset no matter what IMHO just because people see that as something BIG. ehh oh well...we'll just have to see how it plays out. Wish the best for SFStL.
Greezed Lightning was not what caused the decline per say, it was the straw that broke the camel's back as the removal of rides before hand, poor marketing, and end of a potentially unsustainable level of investment which happened under the previous management.
Again, look at the lines. Boomerangs rarely if ever have a line and for a good reason. Even if they did manage to fool people for the first year, it wouldn't take long for it to become another ride that drains the budget from rides that actually bring people in. If we did get it, (which I doubt) SF Corporate in the way they tend to think will look at this from one of two angles. If it happens to do well ("Well, they are covered for another five plus years. We don't need to invest in anything new, they seem satisfied with scraps"); or if it fails ("Well, the park just isn't proving itself to be worth the investment. Adding anything new will be money wasted.")
Heck, look in the SFOT section. The majority of people are more upset about seeing the Texas Chute Out being removed than Flashback, a ride that is 13 years older than the Boomerang. The general consensus is good riddance. That should tell you something about these Boomerangs.
I don't see a single way that this could play out well given the way SF Corporate seems to manage things. SF seems to believe in keeping this park about the same size as it is (I disagree with this but I'll save that for some other time), and if they would add this it would either mean nothing new would be added for an upgrade for a while or we would have to sacrifice one of our coasters to get something we actually need and years later when they would do it this would not be the one sacrificed. I would much rather keep what we have then get this junk pile and lose one of our other coasters. Despite the negative attitude towards some of our coasters, there is nothing rougher and lamer than a Boomerang. I wish the best for the park and the best for the scrap yard concerning the Flashback.
disneyfan, it all depends on how well it is done. If you ask about what kinds of rides, then breakdown the segments from a list of options which ones people are intrigued by, what elements they desire, the speed they seek, pace of acceleration they desire, and which attractions currently offered that they like (and why) and what they don't like (and why), ask about if any have visited their competition and what attractions they liked, didn't like and reasons, this can be useful especially when it is done scientifically.
prozach, you raise a good point about the removal of two attractions. With the removal of both the tidal wave and the bumper cars, I would tend to believe it will be something larger than a Boomerang as they are a compact coaster. I'd prefer something else though.
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^^While we enthusiasts may think it would be a horrible addition, a large roller coaster is a necessity at SFStL.With Vekoma's new trains, a heavy rehab, a new paint job, and a nice upgrade to the surrounding area (ala Carolina Cobra) you can't honestly tell me this wouldn't be a welcome addition to the park. Most park-goers at SFStL aren't going to know any different. The lines stack up for all the other clones in the park don't they? (...Mr. Freeze, Batman: The Ride, American Thunder, Pandemonium...)
It would be an inexpensive way to liven up the park with a new coaster. Even though I'd despise seeing a relocated boomerang pop up at Six Flags St. Louis, the logical side of me sees why it could be a great business move.
Look at history. When SFKK added the Greezed Lightnin', the attendance dropped and continued its decline. Just adding a ride for the sake of adding a ride doesn't guarantee anything. You have to do market research and see if that is what people are wanting.
There is a significant difference between having couple clones that are brand new (Mr. Freeze, American Thunder), multi-clone models that were at least relatively new designs at the time (Batman and Pandemonium), and the "village bicycle" equivalent of a rollercoaster. There are around 40 of these coasters and they have the same lame layout. On top of this, just because people are tempted to ride it the first time doesn't mean that they will want to come back to ride it a second time if they have a bad experience. Attending WOF with people whom are by no means enthusiasts earlier this summer, no one wanted (myself included) to ride the Boomerang as we have all ridden it at least once and don't want to go through that again.
On top of this, the non-cloned Screamin' Eagle and Boss generally have longer lines than the newer and smoother American Thunder. The Pandemonium from what I have seen doesn't have that long a line. The Batman and the Mr. Freeze depends on the day.
It no longer is cheap once you start doing what you mentioned and even if smoothness is resolved, it is still slower than any of the current offerings inverted offerings in the park. In fact, the only thing slower would be the Pandemonium.
The money would be better spent elsewhere. A flat ride would be much better than a Boomerang.
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How can something so pretty be so painful...
You should ride Revolution at Blackpool now, Silky smooth when I rode a month and a bit ago. It's refurb really has been worth it.
I noticed that too when I was there last month. Maybe it's thanks to the new coat of paint, but Revolution was insanely smooth with zero roughness or headbanging. I know it doesn't make any lateral movements so it shouldn't be rough anyway, but some Arrow loopers manage to be rough through straight track and vertical loops.
A fresh coat of paint can make a difference. The Ninja (SFSTL) is smoother for the last couple of years after they gave it another paint job than what it was before hand. With time, you learn how to ride Arrows. It takes a bit of practice but you learn how to hold on tight to the restraints and keep yourself positioned correctly that avoids the head banging.
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Can someone clarify for my why exactly we all think the boomerang is coming here BESIDES the screamscape post? I think the boomerang would be a really nice addition to SFStL, even though I personally don't really care about it. Why, though, is everyone convinced it's coming here?
I'm hoping you are joking. This ride is older than most of the steel coasters already featured in the park. These designs have a terrible reputation for pain and are one of the most cloned coasters around. We already have a two way direction coaster shuttle coaster (Mr. Freeze) which is beyond superior to a Vekoma Boomerang and isn't cloned everywhere. Beyond the fact that WOF already has one, what would the park have to gain by matching one of WOF weakest offerings when we already have it beaten with what we have?
The other problem with getting this ride (which I agree with ProZach that it sounds unlikely) is SFSTL hasn't had a major adult steel coaster since the Mr. Freeze, which was around 1997 (didn't open until 1998). If they dump this junk pile of a coaster on SFSTL, it will assure people whom have been loyally investing in season passes waiting for something new that it will probably never happen. This could hurt sales, but I have my doubts it will come to SFSTL.
The reason why people believe it is because this is one of the few mid-sized parks that Six Flags has that doesn't have one of these. SFFT, SFDK, SFMexico, SFNE, Great Escape, and La Ronde all have one. The bigger parks or at least the ones that have been getting the majority of the investment (SFMM, SFGAdv, SFGAm, SFOG) would not be likely candidates as they tend to get new or used but still relevant. SFSTL and SFA are about the only ones that don't have one. SF has scrapped better rides than this, I hope they either sell it or scrap it because frankly, it isn't going to help any of the six parks it isn't already featured at.
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Don't forget - Fast Lane is your friend.
True, but it costs more than a pass does. That is what bothers me.
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If they are adding a coaster in the area coastercrutchfield outlined, they should've spared Texas Chute-Out as it is a classic and is very rare. With Flashback, I don't care if it goes to the scrapyard, the world is better with one less boomerang.
Agreed 100%!
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Speaking of backwards....hope you guys enjoy our crappy boomerang.
The best use I can think of is getting the money from turning it into scrap metal.
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I would much rather see a proper wooden coaster re-tracking on the Beast, done by a company like Great Coasters International or Gravity Group. As more and more parks begin to adopt the technology pioneered by Intamin and Rocky Mountain, I think that we'll see less and less "traditional" wooden coasters like Phoenix, Boulder Dash, and Beast. I for one love the traditional "rough and tumble" experience that comes with riding an old wooden coaster.
Maybe its the Beast's trains that are tearing up the track?
I agree. The issue that I have with topper tracks or the Iron Horse is that they make the coaster feel less and less like a woodie. Woodies are supposed to have a degree of rattle to them. There is a difference between good woodies like the Beast and poor ones like the Rattler in how they ride. The former have a degree of shakiness which adds to the experience, the latter beats you to death no matter what you do. I get tired of the over refinement of some coasters which makes the experience the same whether riding them in person or watching them on youtube. Coasters are meant to be intense, not for sight seeing.
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A topper track is very practical in the long run. Right now, it's just not needed. Yeah, I can't disagree that it's not as intense now. But there's not much you can do about modernizing an older ride. So seeing one in the near future wouldn't be a huge surprise. I've never ridden Texas Giant, so I can't say. To me, a whole "Texas Giant" facelift on The Beast wouldn't really fit. There are no huge drops or high banks that is has to do. The helix would be pretty crazy with the makeover, but it seems like all it would do for the rest of the ride is smooth it out. The recent track work made it really smooth. I think I rode it for the first time when I was 10. To me, it's running the best it has in the past 6 years. If you rode it today, I think you'd be surprised. haha (:
I have ridden the Texas Giant and the Beast and the Beast should stay exactly the way it is. The Beast is a legend as it is. Older coasters such as these need to remain this way. The only ones that should consider the Texas Giant type of transformation are ones that were terrible from day 1 that are almost un-rideable. The Rattler (SFFT) is an example of one that needs this. The entire ride no matter where you sit is non-stop torso banging no matter where you sit. When I rode the Beast last year (late August), the front was just fine. The rear although admittedly a painful experience during turns was no contest to what the Rattler was like. In the case of the Beast, it just needs periodic retracking, maybe different trains (Millennium Flyers), but otherwise it is a great coaster as it is. The Texas Giant is no longer a woodie, it is just a steel coaster with a wooden frame. If KI wants that, do that with the SoB.
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Alright, I'll have to get a fast pass then. Thank you for the tip!
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From what I have read, the wood was a large part of the problem as it was inferior wood. If the ride truly is salvageable, it would be best to treat it that way and say forget considering the wood. I would be far more in favor of a winged coaster than an inverted. It is a 20 year old segment and there are offerings of that everywhere. A B&M Invert is not that exciting anymore.
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I think a large part of the problem is that the Kentucky State Fair Board is naive. They seem blissfully unaware of how many theme parks do not reopen after they close. The more time that goes by, the lower the chance is of it reopening. Six Flags was clearly mismanaging it as they have with pretty much all of their parks outside of SFMM, SFGAdv, SFGAm, and SFOG since Premier took over and I have doubts that it would ever have gotten better with the way they were running it. They need to stop looking at this with the vision that this is golden and anyone who gets involved should be grateful to be graced with it, the facts are the park is in about as bad shape as SFNO. Most of the good attractions have already been removed, the buildings all need extensive repairs, most of the water rides are shot (no thanks to them not winterizing them), and what is left is either dated or not highly rated.
Any offer they get should be taken more seriously than they have. They also need to get the idea in their head that either they are going to have to put down some serious money to get things operating again or they need to sell it and take a hit on it. They are not in the position of advantage and they need to realize it, otherwise they will continue to let it sit and decay until it is a complete and total loss. Sometimes you win, sometime you lose. What you do is learn from your mistakes and move on.
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The ride needs some TLC before they do anything. The track is getting rough as it is. I am having far more problems with head banging on it than the Ninja. Seriously, all problems in life cannot be resolved by making things run backwards.
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I am new here so if this is the wrong section or anything, I apologize.
Anyhow, I am planning on visiting Cedar Point for the first time ever on August 21 and I was wondering on how bad the lines were going to be and if I will need a season pass. Any advice would be appreciated.
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Depends on what you want to experience. If you want the tallest coasters Six Flags has to offer. Six Flag Great Adventure is what you will want attend as they have the tallest coaster in the world (Kingda Ka) and one of the tallest woodies (El Toro). Most of their steel coasters are B&Ms (segments hyper, stand up, floorless, flying, and inverted).
If you want some of the most unique, I would say SFMM would be what you want. They have two 4th Dimensional coasters (although a similar segment two very different experiences), the same B&M segments (minus the hyper but a better flying coaster), last of its kind 7 looping Arrow shuttle coaster, and a few others. Their hyper is nearly the same as the one found in SFOT, so just keep that in mind.
Those two are the ones I would say would give you the most variety from what you have at SFOT.
You can't go wrong with Six Flags Great America or Six Flags Over Georgia due to them having many rides not featured at SFOT. While I love my home park (Six Flags St. Louis), we don't as much to offer due to them giving us many of the same rides (Mr. Freeze, Batman, Pandemonium, Mine Train). I will say though (despite popular option) we do offer many good woodies. The American Thunder is short but packs a punch with an intense track layout. The Screamin' Eagle (a former New Guinness World Book of Record holder) is taller, faster, and longer than Judge Roy Scream. The Boss is pretty comparable to what the Texas Giant was before the transfer. It is fun, it just rattles a lot.
Just realize that the bigger parks with the better rides tend to have longer lines.
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the Rattler is the worst I have ever experienced. The whole ride was nothing other than torso bruising experience. No good airtime to even make up for it.
Vekoma Boomerangs, I don't think I need to explain this one. My head, neck, and back hurt like it never hurt before.
The Flight of Fear with lap bars is still pretty bad. Being that it is in the dark, you can anticipate and again the torso gets pounded.
Six Flags St. Louis (SFStL) Discussion Thread
in Theme Parks, Roller Coasters, & Donkeys!
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LOL! Thank you! I'm new here, how do I make that my signature?
I hope you are right. I can see moving Iron Wolf as stand ups are not that common and as far as I am aware, it was not cloned. I can even see the GIB as they are not as common (though still a lame-o boomerang), but that ride is seriously ready for retirement. If the rarer coasters like the Great American Scream Machine and Batman and Robin: The Chiller weren't worth keeping, then neither is a cloned to death Boomerang.