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Arrow Dynamics fan

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Posts posted by Arrow Dynamics fan

  1. Doesn't work if your head is above the harness. Ride it enough times and you can learn the motions of the ride and how to counter them. Once you figure that out it actually can be fun. Especially in the back seat


    Agreed. I like that insane pop of air on the first drop. It's really not a boring layout, I just wish it was feasible to imagine Six Flags re-engineering a few parts of the track and adding new trains with updated harnesses. It could be such a good starter looper for the younger folk.

    Being able to ride an Arrow pain free takes a bit of practice. I'm about 5 ft 9 in and I can ride pretty much all of them without any head banging problems. The key for me is slouch when you are tightening the restraints and get it as tight as possible, then sit as straight as you can with your shoulders pressing firmly against the OTSR and I never have problems. My shoulders do get a bit sore at the end of the day with a few very minor scratches (none that are deep enough to cause any bleeding). The initial drop from the Ninja is by far my favorite drop in the park (especially in the back as it is good short ejector air time). The layout for an Arrow coaster is short but it is packed with lots of inversions and a helix so no real wasted space compared. The Sidewinder is the most unique element of the ride. I prefer it to the Anaconda (KD) as far as Arrows are concerned and to all Vekomas I have ridden and a number of B&Ms. The ride is probably too old for this kind of investment, but if they were to use the new Vekoma trains (MK-1212 IIRC) with the newer softer restraints would make a huge difference as it made Sidewinder (HP) almost enjoyable by removing the severe head banging and neck pain (the back pain afterwards was still there, just not as bad as it was the last time I rode one of those clones).


    I know you guys hate it, but the ride does serve a purpose as being an entry coaster for growing kids and any money spent on a replacement for this height is money spent on something other than what the park is really needing. It would be awesome to have a RMC wooden coaster with inversions, but I'm not sure that we would be able to get a very noteworthy one in the small foot print that is the Ninja and I'm not sure our park really needs a fourth wooden coaster. If we are lucky enough to get one of their coasters, my thoughts are a wooden hyper terrain coaster near where the Tidal Wave is.

  2. For me the two are Larson Loop SFSTL and Valravn at Cedar Point. I won't go into the Larson one as I'm sure that one explains itself. While Valravn looks like it should be at minimum a great coaster if it is anything like my exprience with Griffon at BGW, but why another floorless type one year after Rougarou? The park is outstanding in the steel department, what it needs is either a RMC wood or Intamin Prefabricated Wooden coaster as Mean Streak is very disappointing and Blue Streak is just okay. I don't like that the family attractions are being sacrificed for this either. It is one thing to trade in one old family attraction for a new current market one, but I fear this could move the park towards loosing its balance between the two as it is both a good family and high adrenaline coaster park. If they wanted Valravn, in my opinion, they should have either put it at a more needing park in their line-up or installed it at Cedar Point and moved Rougarou to a more needing park and turned that region into a new family attraction location.


    If Cedar Point (the innovator/benchmarker park park) wants a new steel coaster why not something new like why not a S&S Free Fly X, RMC i-Trex, or anything RMC, etc.? Why a segment that is over 10 years old with the most modest upgrades over the prior ones featured? It just doesn't feel right to me. Other than that, I'm sorry but I want something other than just off the shelf models from B&M from Cedar Fair in segments innovated 10-15 years ago that I can already experience at other parks. I know I am spoiled, I just want some more variety. They are being one upped in my eyes by Dollywood and Kentucky Kingdom. They are offering what historically Dollywood and Kentucky Kingdom would get and Dollywood and Kentucky Kingdom are the ones pushing the innovative envelope. In this, they are potentially being out performed in intensity by smaller family parks.

  3. I think HWFan said something about the Boomerang that I think should be said more often. For what SFSL had, they did a fantastic job with the theming, placement of ride, and making the ride at least fairly enjoyable. I think that the park staff has not been credited with that achievement, and it's about time they should!


    I don't know exactly how much theming there is on Boomarang, but I definitely agree with the park making the best out of the situation. I enjoy the color scheme, and they did a great job integrating the coaster into that section of the park

    By theming I did mean color scheme, which I think is the best part of the ride.

    I promise I will try to be nice on this topic. It is nice that the park in more recent years with newer coasters has gone away from the mindset of "you may have your coaster in any color as long as that color is black." (I will never forgive them for changing the Ninja from the nice bright redish-orange to the depressing black. Having the Batman and Mine Train was already too many that were black) The orange and lime colors are not my favorite but it is definitely better than what Flashback had back when it was at SFOT . Having the people be able to walk underneath the track is a new thing (a good thing) for the park. The use of the steel roof means less maintenance and it looks good along with the stone work. I just wish with new rides they would use names that fit the theme of the section of the park.


    Here are a couple ideas I have been kicking around just for the sake a discussion. Does anyone know how much it would cost ballpark comparison for Chance (Morgan) to build a modern terrain hyper coaster similar to Phantoms Revenge compared to a B&M or Intamin hyper? Also, what about RMC? What would a hyper coaster cost from them considering that they are just under the 200 mark on many of their coasters?

  4. Green Lantern would be a great coaster of it was a floorless. Mantis was unrideable crap and Rougarou is really forceful and snappy but very smooth. It's probably my favorite floorless coaster now (slightly edging out Kraken and Dominator).

    My favorite is Superman Krypton Coaster (unless Dive Coasters are allowed then it would be Griffon). I liked Dominator a bit better because it didn't knock my head any. It is possible the very back seat is the wrong one to sit in for Rougarou. That said, I will take Rougarou over Scream! any day of the week as it is completely forceless yet a bit rough at the same time.

  5. I think the fact that we were in the park from open to close with only 4 major outdoor coasters running and we still didn't ride Green Lantern or even acknowledge it's existence is all you need to know about how much I hate that ride.


    They need to send that piece of crap to another park (Six Flags St. Louis?) and give it the Rougarou treatment.


    Ha! SFStL will take anything.

    LOL! Well think about it, which is worse? A floorless conversion of a B&M Stand up or a standard Boomerang?


    From my experience of Rougarou this summer compared to Mantis was a definite improvement changing a unbearably rough coaster to a tolerable coaster that still knocked my head a few times (vs. neverending head banging from Mantis) and was forceful in turns and not as much in drops as I prefer. I place it in the "next time I go there I will ride it maybe once if the line is short enough" compared to as many times as I possibly can in the case of Maverick, Magnum XL-200, Millennium Force, and Gemini. If it were in one of there other parks (WOF) I would ride it alot but in my eyes at Cedar Point it doesn't really stand out.


    A floorless conversion of Green Lantern would be a big deal for SFSTL because it would be the biggest coaster added since the Boss (added in 2000), it would be the first noteworthy steel coaster since Mr. Freeze (1998) due to the number of inversions ties that of the Batman, it would be the tallest completed track steel coaster (slightly taller than the Boss making it the tallest competed track coaster for the park), and the new experience of having a floorless coaster. That said, I would much rather have a different coaster, but really at our park it would be a big deal.


    In my opinion, Green Lantern/Chang was a move that to me did not make sense considering that the park already has Bizzaro. I find after being in parks that have too many similar coasters that it fails to offer variety. After being at SFMM, I frankly wanted to take the floorless train from Scream! put it on Riddler's Revenge and put Scream! up for sale as it did nothing for me. I find much more variety in the experience of having Viper, Revolution, and a floorless Riddler's Revenge at SFMM, Maverick, Rougarou, and Corkscrew at Cedar Point, Loch Ness Monster and Griffon at BGW, Anaconda and Dominator at Kings Dominion than Green Lantern and Bizzaro at SFGAdv, Riddler's Revenge and Scream! at SFMM, Fahrenheit and Storm Runner at Hershey, and Shockwave and Demon at SFGAm (I know Shockwave is gone but I think you know what I am saying). Don't get me wrong many of these (especially Fahrenheit and Storm Runner) are great coasters, I just like having a variety of makers and completely different segments as the experience seems to complete.


    If something had to be done about GASM, I think maybe a Chance Morgan conversion (ala Phantom's Revenge) may have been worth considering (even if they had to wait a few years to get the money for it as I know they were broke back then).

  6. I can answer that one. Weight. PTC, Millennium Flyer, and Timberliners are heavier than Gerstlauer. The ride structure was designed specifically to run Gerstlauer. The one time Boss ran the PTC from Eagle it beat the track up pretty bad. The added weight did help the trains complete the course without needing lead bags. In order to run different trains they would have to be the roughly the same weight or the entire structure would need to be redesigned. If swapping the trains was as simple as it sounded it would have happened a long time ago.

    TNT, thank you for your answer. So if I am understanding this correctly when you say "the entire structure would need to be redesigned" you are talking about much more than just the track (meaning every bit of the structure)? This would mean that if a topper track would still require using the Gerstlauer trains? So, this means that when HW switched from Gerstlauers to PTCs they had to redo more than just the track? Is this one of those the cost of doing this would be almost the price of a new coaster?

  7. Dave and I both agreed that we would much rather see RMC come and put topper track on the Boss (which would cost less). They could change the banking or profile a tad here and there to add to the thrill but nothing over the top. The Boss' biggest problem is really the Gerstlauer trains. Holiday World was lucky to get rid of there's on the Legend pretty quickly. Topper track would also allow the ride to run whenever it is colder, and it would minimize the chance of the trains getting stuck in a valley. Gerstlauer's trains are so bad that the Boss had to run PTCs from Screamin' Eagle for media day, as the G trains wouldn't complete the circuit. Even today, the park is lucky to have a fantastic rides crew who knows the Boss really well. One of my good friends is the rides supervisor over that whole area of the parks (the park is separated into three areas, in terms of rides), and she loves the Boss. Each train (three total) has its own quirks and things you have to do.


    You probably have never seen them, but there are a couple off-the-shelf yard sprinklers attached to the second huge turn around after the MCBR. They run them almost every morning before the park opens. Then, as the days get colder, there is one train (can't remember which color) that sometimes gets parked on the lift hill in order to warm up by sunning itself.


    In the end, it's a case of Six Flags purchased a product from a company that ended up having some issues. Hearing stories and seeing things myself, it really amazes me how much work the rides staff put into making sure that the Boss can run three trains as much as possible. They truly go above and beyond what basic standard operating procedure would be to keep the line moving.

    HWFan, first of all, I want to thank you for all the photos and information you are sharing with us. It is helpful to understand what is going on behind the scenes (even if I still don't agree on all the decisions). I agree that the topper track would be a better choice than Iron Horsing it. It is easy to compare it to high ranking coasters made since it (Outlaw Run, El Toro, Voyage, etc.). The layout is still one of the best I have experienced for a wooden coaster and many parks I have been to (Kings Dominion, SFOT, SFFT, SFMM, WOF, Busch Gardens Williamsburg) lack a wooden track coaster that is this tall and intense. The long line is evidence to value of this coaster, the primary problem is the roughness which I agree 100% is due to the trains. It is rough but not unbearably rough as the Rattler was in its last years where I was convinced I was going to have broken ribs from it in comparison.


    HWFan, can you explain to me to help me understand why in light of these RMC conversions happening at so many other SF parks, why SFSTL doesn't just take a newly retired PTC train (or even better a Millennium Flyer train) fix it up and replace these clearly unreliable, painful, and thoroughly unlikable Gerstlauer trains?

  8. So we are gaining a Larson Loop and losing the Rush Street Flyer? I don't want to upset everyone with a whining fest, but the Rush Street Flyer is one of the few remaining flats that I like at the park and I'm not convinced that I am going to like the Larson Loop, but I will give it a try. Each year seems to be replacing flats that I like with attractions that I don't like. HWFan, I know you can't tell us everything, but has Dave (or corporate) ever considered getting a set of the zero-turning radius bumper cars? They have those over at Swing Around Fun Town and they are actually pretty fun. Also, Is there any chance that the Joker could be replaced with an S&S Screaming Swing?


    To those who want to say that SFSTL employees are bad, spend time over at SFMM and you will be begging to have SFSTL employees again. SFSTL employees do not have the attitude problem that the SFMM did, it took a fraction of the time to get a drink at SFSTL as it did at SFMM, and due to the lack of interest of the employees at SFMM on a couple of the rides (Scream!, Riddler's Revenge, Colossus, etc.) the advantage of the Flash Pass was lost due to them not paying any attention to us. SFSTL employees are not perfect but they are some of the better ones, most of them have a good attitude. I agree with Prozach, if you are having problems with security at the park, you will find the source of the problem when you take a good look at the man in mirror. I have never once had a bad encounter with the park security in all the years I have attended.

  9. As much as I would like for them to be successful in reviving this park, there is a very BIG difference between Jazzland and Kentucky Kingdom. Kentucky Kingdom had a proven track record of success under Hart's management, Jazzland has not. Kentucky Kingdom was shut down for 4 years, Jazzland has been closed for 9 years. Kentucky Kingdom was shut down due to a combination of reasons (disputes with the Fair Board, a rough economy, declining attendance), Jazzland was closed because Katrina destroyed it and its attendance did not justify the reinvestment. Kentucky Kingdom had its previous management working to bring it back and he had to fight tooth and nail to succeed, Jazzland has a lot a questionable bidders that have turned up with nothing. Kentucky Kingdom did have to fix quite a few things, even costing more than what Hart initially thought, as for Jazzland...I don't know if anything can be salvaged at this point.


    I'm sorry but I think they would do better just to let this one go and IF they want to try again, start fresh and do it right this time: in the French Quarters, have people with a long track record initiate it, don't use cheap clones that you can find anywhere (Boomerang, Wild Mouse) and built a noteworthy wooden coaster. They only thing I wish could have been salvaged is the dark ride "Jocco's Mardi Gras Madness" as that was about the only thing unique to the park. This said, I hope to be proven wrong.

  10. Whether Mantis gets floorless or sit down trains, is moved to another park, or scrapped. Any of the three outcomes is good news as far as I am concerned. Mantis made Shockwave (a Togo Stand-up) in comparison seem smooth, enjoyable, and well engineered.


    I can't believe anyone complains about the restraints on Maverick or Maverick itself. Rollercoasters are not meant to be old school luxury sedans that pamper you and rock you to sleep. They are to be exotic sport car that bring you to life. Having these elements and drops are not for sight seeing purposes, they are to fill you with forces and the Maverick is one of the best ones made. If anyone seriously thinks Maverick and its restraints are rough, spend some time on any traditional B&M, Arrow, Vekoma, Premier (if they have any that have not been changed), Schwartzkopf, Togo, etc. and bang your head on those restraints. Your head will be aching for quite a while afterwards. Maverick's restraints are very soft in comparison and unlike the above listed, they do not give you the headache the above listed will. Even if it did, Maverick is worth it. Other ones like Mantis (and Boomerangs) are not worth it.

  11. Ironically, I was gonna say every non-inverted "Boomerang" known to man, but they're all Vekoma. One can dream...

    Why not, they use Arrow's track design and trains, it is free game as far as I am concerned.


    What I would like to see would be an Inverted Coaster that follows Arrow's classic elements. Instead of a diving drop a turn then a straight drop, a loop, then a sidewinder, then another loop that interlocks with the initial loop, then double corkscrews and a Batwing inversion (instead of the over used cobra roll).


    Frankly, if Arrows were to be modified this is my dream set up. Having B&M floorless trains, having B&M handle the lift hill design, having Alan Schilke make design adjustments to remove harsh transfers and further intensify their already intense spots, have either S&S (if they still have the track design from Tennesse Tornado) or Chance Morgan designed track. I'd love to see them take another shot at Drachen Fire (only changes being using a Batwing inversion instead of a Cobra Roll and using both a left and right corkscrew).

  12. I think this is a good move, including that ours may not spin. After being at Busch Gardens Williamsburg, the thing that ruined "The Curse of DarKastle" was the spinning part. It made an otherwise enjoyable dark ride into a try your best to keep from barfing. Also the turning element is just another thing to break and act up causing the ride to be shut down more often.


    While I would prefer a more original topic than Justice League, I'll take it any day over Scooby Doo.


    They can advertise the 3D element to the ride along with things like "ride with your favorite hero's as they save the day" and stuff like that. As much as I would love the park to get one of the coasters that I want, the fact is if a park becomes about nothing other than coasters, the park becomes unbalanced and becomes rather bland (SFMM). Six Flags needed to invest in this as Scooby Doo is once again no longer relevant. They also need focus on getting the family part of the park stronger so then when they finally add a noteworthy rollercoaster, the park will seem more complete and patrons will want to return. The park needs to shake the "old park" reputation and this is a part of the process.

  13. I thought I would never say this, but I now plan on going back to SFFT (maybe not next year but soon). I can understand why some are concerned about this being painful like Green Lantern, but based on the design I doubt that will be a problem for three reasons:


    1. the Intamin model has the track VERY tightly wrapped together especially for transfers; whereas, this appears to permit for more room for transfers.

    2. The Zacspins have the problem of leaving one side facing down when they are imbalanced. The Use of magnets should help it to either completely flip or not flip at all.

    3. It appears that it may be using Iron Horse track which is about the smoothest in the industry.


    I am excited for this and if this proves to be a intense and comfortable ride, I hope more are made. I don't understand the disappointment. This is a brand new, unique coaster. This is better than what SFOG is getting and better than what SFOT and SFSTL are getting. SFFT has been treated quite well by the current management.

  14. In my view, Premier was when it fell apart. Time Warner may have made some mistakes along the way in letting some of the parks lose some of their identities and their name (SFOMA to SFSTL when it isn't IN St. Louis near by but not in St. Louis), but they really built it up and spend some serious money on making them competitive. Premier took the approach of buy the Six Flags name and slap it on everything and let the parks become neglected and only seemed to be interested in investing in the same parks and thought it was only about coaster counts.

  15. I'm going to agree with those saying SFFT. SFOT, and SFGAdv are just too big of parks to put something with such a small rate of people per hour into their parks...


    There is no indication whatsoever on what the capacity of this ride will be. Unless you know something we don't.


    Edit - And before you jump the gun, this is the Free Spin, not the Free Fly model in Sweden.

    On top of that, S&S worked to improve the low rider per hour problem on the Free Fly with the Free Fly X having riders front and back. I would say that SFOT would probably be the best choice of the group to add it to considering that they have not had a new coaster (NTAG is a transformation) since Pandemonium. SFOT coaster count dropped when they removed Flashback/Boomerang and SFFT already had a higher inversion before that happened. What SFFT lacks current due to the Iron Rattler transformation is a wooden coaster and it probably wouldn't hurt to have a coaster that doesn't feature an inversion in their line up other than Road Runner Express for those whom don't like inversions. I could also see it go to SFGAdv as it is very different from anything there, but I would think it would be more valued at SFOT given the much newer line up at SFGAdv (though they due for a new one before long since their last addition was a 14 year old Stand Up). Of course, it would be more than welcome at SFSTL but I'm sure it won't go here due to the rumored new dark ride.


    Interesting observation. Normally I would say no chance for it being SDC, but considering how aggressive they are getting lately with Dollywood anything is possible. I'd be great if so.

  16. Yes! Yes! YYYEEESSS!!! Happy day!


    As much as I would love it to be Kentucky Kingdom, I doubt it will be because from Hart's established plans, he was going to reopen T2 then redo the Twisted Twins. Even though Holiday World has now added the B&M launced Wing Rider which certainly is going to stand out more than reopen a 20 year old clone with a reputation for being rough, the reality is Hart has to work with the budget he has. While that is a lot of coaster for $7 million, the fact is he did just reopen the park and had to spend a lot more than originally anticipated.


    As long as it is somewhere closer than Magic Mountain, I will be thrilled.

  17. considering especially how I was not impressed with the NTAG but was thoroughly blown away by the Outlaw Run


    No offense, but the steel coaster polls (Golden Ticket/Mitch Hawker- #6 in GT/#2 in MH) tend to disagree with your opinion on NTAG. Perhaps your not a airtime person?

    I am an airtime person and I didn't feel much of anything on it. The Outlaw Run on the other hand was outstanding. While polls have their place, my experience on rides and polls are sometimes different and in time after a ride is no longer new, the polls provide a more accurate answer to how the ride really is. For instance, the Timber Wolf was very highly rated for years in polls like these in the 1990s and I was never impressed with it back then and am I not now where it lands more accurately very low on the list.

  18. For starters, lets all realize that we are all COASTER ENTHUSIASTS. Why do many feel the need to bash coasers for their ride quality. Whether they be rough, or smooth, all of them receive critic. Let's assume that it is a ROLLER COASTER, they all ride differently, and such we love them. Everything I see or read, is either..."its too rough" or, "its too smooth", or, "its too forcefull", or, Its not "forcefull enough". lets just agree to love these rides regardeless. you're not on a "MAG-LEV" train, and such these rides succomb to physics and gravity. Even though a ride may be rough, or too smooth, can't we recognize them all for what they are, and not what our personal desires dictate?? Don't these contributing factors add to the over-all ride expirience?


    Dan "lets not be so critical of the things[roller coasters] we love" Stricklnad

    Yep and I am guilty as anyone, which is why I am trying to use a filter on my thoughts. In my view, what determines a coaster to be a good coaster vs. a bad coaster can be different from the criteria that others apparently use as we have different tolerances partly because we ride coasters differently. Some prefer to ride the same coaster back to back several times as a result they tend to prefer less intense coasters with more focus on smoothness. I rarely ride back to back unless it is the end of the day at the park it is on my favorite coaster, ergo I prefer intense coasters.


    Like most things in life, there is a need for balance. We need to give credit where it is due for things done well (which is something we as a culture do too little), give constructive criticism where it is due (the first part we tend to forget), and give suggestions on how to improve it (if possible). Most of the coasters I have ridden have been positive experiences while only 4 coasters I have ridden were truly completely painful and not enjoyable in the least. The way I try to judge a coaster is to see when it has an undesired characteristic on my initial experience (head banging for instance), is there a way I can lessen this to make what could be an outstanding ride otherwise live up to its positive elements. From learning how to ride coasters with OTSR from most manufacturers, I have been able to improve the initial experience from a bad head to being thoroughly enjoyable by sitting taller to where my shoulders press against the top of the OTSR and press the handle bars inwardly on either side lessens the likelihood of head banging. Other ones like the Beast, I had to learn that riding it in the last seat in the back is just not a good location; therefore, sit up front and you will enjoy the ride.


    There are other ones however that as far as I am aware cannot be redeemed as it currently exists. The restraint change in 2001/2002 on the Mr. Freeze is a good example of how to redeem a good but painful coaster. The Mr. Freeze was a good intense coaster, but the restraints were ruining the experience. Once they changed this the problem was solved. In other cases, some coasters do better with a different set of trains. The Legend (HW) switched to PTC from Gerstlauers which helped to improve the experience of the ride; however, if the wrong trains are chosen this can make the experience worse (Hades 360). Sometimes I ride needs to be completely redefined. The Rattler was one of them, my entire experience was smashing my rib cage from side to side and nothing I did could prevent this. This coaster required a complete rebuild and redefinition to fix. In some cases, the ride is completely unredeemable due various factors (using inferior materials, having a lower tier builder, bad elements, etc.), in these rare cases is when the coaster really should be torn down (Son of Beast) after numerous incidents which is damaging the parks reputation or the cost is high and the attendance is low.


    When it comes to force problems, I think the key there is to have a variety of coaster segments and manufacturers so then those who like floaters have some there for them and those who want an ejector experience can have that. In other cases, I think some coasters could be much more if they would redo certain elements to make them more forceful.


    Long story short, I think it is good to share the techniques with each other for improving the riding experience to make it as enjoyable as possible, important to warn others about ones that have been irredeemably unpleasant, and express both our positive and negative (without outright bashing) about the different rides.

  19. New for 2015: Stand up trains for the mine train.........

    They did that in the 70's, didnt turn out so well for 1 lady....

    The Rail Blazer II: Revenge of the Attorneys


    It was actually the early 1980s.


    As far as i am concerned, if they are not ready to make a serious coaster addition in the light of whatever HW is going to add, they would be best to either fix some of the run down parts of the park, add a meaningful flat, fix some prior mistakes (Moon Car layout and location). This way when they do add a meaningful coaster it will increase the impact of the new ride by having everything look as nice as possible, running at top condition, etc will help to resolve the image that I hear many of the GP say that the park "feels old." It would be more effective anyhow to add when no other park in the area is making a new addition so it can stand out, but I hope that SF corporate is planning on addressing our parks need for a signature steel coaster that is something other than an Iron redefinition of a wooden coaster.


    If they go this route, it would be after looking at what it appears SF corporate will be doing, their upcoming RMC transformation will be on classic wooden coasters. Considering the attendance on the Screamin' Eagle and the Boss, we might be more likely to see an Iron or Steel Eagle. Honestly, with the steel transformations SFOT NTAG, SFFT Iron Rattler, and the even more local RMCs Outlaw Run and Goliath, I think they should consider going a different direction than this. While I am sure that RMC with the help of Alan Schilke can continue to outdo themselves (considering especially how I was not impressed with the NTAG but was thoroughly blown away by the Outlaw Run), the problem that I can see is that due to it being surrounded by these existing offerings, it is going to have to do so much more to stand out than it would be for either SFNE or SFMM (assuming that this is what will replace their retiring coasters) where an RMC coaster does not currently exist. If it fails to match or beat the Outlaw Run, Goliath, let alone NTAG, and Iron Rattler, why would anyone who lives half way between these parks choose to go to SFSTL anymore than just once to try it out initally?


    In my view, SFSTL needs something different to stand out when they eventually are given a new coaster. A flyer would not be the most effective addition given that SFGAm already has one and the feedback seems to be that that only flyer that has any enthusiasm is Tatsu not to mention that they have lower attendance due to how long it takes to load them. Flyers sound and look more fun than they actually are. With X-Flight, Wild Eagle, and Gatekeeper not being that far away, I would also stay away from adding one of those. Depending on what HW is going to add, I would say depending on their budget that the most effective coasters SF should look at either adding a B&M Dive coaster, Intamin Hyper or Giga or Maverick type, or S&S 4D Free Spin or Free Fly X.

  20. Can someone make a "how to ride The Boss guide". What train is the best and where to sit. My son only sits in the middle because he is scared of the front and back. If one of you experts gave some recommendations he might step out of his comfort zone.


    We got rained out Friday afternoon but had a good afternoon today at HH. Noticed they raised preferred parking to $30 for $25. I think they pushed it to high, I have seen that lot fuller on a weekday.


    My advise is ride as close to the front as possible (second row sometimes is available because many people think the long line is for it as well as the front just ask the people in the long line to be sure, it works for me). I have the best success with the yellow train. Have the restraints tight, but not too tight as they can squeeze you in the wrong area if you catch my drift. Try to lean forward a bit to where the vibrations on the ride is not experienced by your back which is where the head ache can come from on this ride.

  21. I attended on 06/19 and this was my experience:


    Griffon (9.0 of 10): This is by far my favorite B&M. This one was quite intense, original, and all around fun. It had the turns and everything at the right moment.


    Loch Ness Monster (8.5 of 10): This offered the best airtime on the initial drop of all the coasters on my trip. It was fun getting to experience the interlocking loops after losing the Orient Express.


    Verbolten (8.0 of 10): This ride packed quite a punch despite its size. Very fun.


    Apollo's Chariot (8.0 of 10): This was definitely better than the Diamondback (no head ache from all the rattling and had some actual airtime) though not quite as good as Magnum XL-200.


    Alpengeist (5.0 of 10): This was the biggest shock. This ride while it was definitely quick didn't feel intense but made me feel more nauseous than anything else. To its credit, It wasn't rough.


    All in all, the theming was well done, the staff was great, and the queue's had plenty of shade (thank goodness).

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