Lareson

Yeah, think it was the three smaller stands installed next to Thunderhawk, Logger's Run and in the water park that sort of ended The Dog House since those carts also sold hot dogs and fries. They still sell the footlong hot dogs though, I believe at Wildcat Grill in a combo basket. i do have to say, I take back saying Wildcat Grill was my favorite place to eat. I completely forgot about Family Grill, the all-you-can-eat grill next to the arcade. Now I'm craving for the Johnsonville brats and the chicken nuggets they have there. That is probably the best deal on food in the park. Those that have participated in Coasting For Kids here know what I'm talking about as that's the place they have their lunch at.

The park did add Antie Anne's pretzels last year where Midway Muchies used to be (which was the Dog Shack) and they moved Midway Munchies to where Sundae at the Races was, since there really was no point in keeping that name since the Go-Karts are gone. Wildcat Grill was always my favorite place to eat in the park since Coasters was always too busy. Then I'd head for Confection Connection to get a nice funnel cake topped with strawberries and ice cream. I heard there were going to be some infrastructure changes like the old Arcade being torn down and replaced with a new building (no idea what could replace it, but I know the employee break room is attached to it so it'll have to be part of the new structure) and I also heard the water park would receive a new entry way with new changing rooms. Also I heard the wall supporting the midway by the lake has to have some work done on it as well since there were some structural issues with it near the end of the season. Also heard Dodgem was suppose to receive new cars to replace the aging Cedar Point ones from the 60's. And don't forget the second train they've been meaning to add to Timbertown Railway for the past few years, which now has a proper shed for it that they built this season. I can tell you, this park is not going to be going anywhere anytime soon. It's a huge tourist attraction for West Michigan and in general for the state. Lakeside Gliders was a pefect addition for 2013 and even if no ride will be added next year, there's still quite a bit the park can do to improve. I have a feeling 2016 will be a big year for the park's 60th anniversary so I wouldn't doubt that that a major ride will be on the way.

They could expand into the section of parking right behind Zach's Zoomer, which is where I'd imagine the kid's area expansion would take place, whether it'd be a Planet or Camp Snoopy. Shifting around a couple rides and opening up a section for a midway would allow them to expand out in that lot. That section of parking always bothered me for some reason and is in an awkward spot. I was kind of surprised they didn't turn that area into prefered parking when it was introduced. If what I heard was happening at the park, then I can understand why they won't be adding an attraction next year. We'll see though, still have another month to go before the year's end since they have to start getting things started for the 2015 season in January. Not entirely sure why the GM would announce that new capital would be on the way but then ending up not getting anything. Rather odd...

I thought the building was partially taken over by a restaurant. Is there enough room in the old building? Yes, Chickie's & Pete's (formerly Game Day Grill) took over a portion of the ride area, but I believe the rest of the building is prop storage for Halloweekends. The dark ride could fit back into that building, but knowing Cedar Point, I'm expecting the dark ride to have a thrill factor slightly higher than Guardian, but themed near the level of Voyage, so it really wouldn't fit in the building if they're planning the dark ride/roller coaster hybrid again.

Cedar Fair has done some major improvements to the Commons dorms and I've heard there are a lot more changes coming in the next few years. Here's the album for the new building that was built this year and the updated rec room. The hallways are no longer dark (seemed like the building I stayed in when I worked there for Halloweekends 2012 were pretty dark,) the new bathrooms in the building actually look very nice (no longer white tile and concrete blocks,) and a much larger store for the associates. I don't expect anything major to happen for 2015 due to the Breakers renovation, but I wouldn't doubt there will be some more additions in the Commons area in the next couple years. Do have to say, adding at least a couple more buses (or at the minimum another line) and speeding up the dispatch time would help. Ouimet has been taking feedback from talking to a few of the associates and he's trying to fix a lot of the issues that Kinzel basically ignored.

Also I believe the Cedar dorms are on the chopping block in the near future as well. I can imagine that there will be a rather large expansion of the Commons dorms located off the peninsula once Cedars is gone. That'll open up even more room.

116 degrees is what RCDB lists how steep this coaster is. I believe this would make it the steepest hyper coaster. That's quite amazing considering that this park isn't that big and they're completley building this in-house. There's no proper renderings on how this coaster looks besides a couple images the park used for a press conference but I can imagine this will be very unique compared to anything else.

Ah, ok, that explains a few things then. So the RMC trains don't really have the need to "steer" then with the way their track is designed. The single guide wheels helps with that. Timberliners are the only wooden coaster train that has 2 guide wheels, allowing the bogie to turn with the track like what may of the similar steel coaster bogies do. RMC's solution has basically fixed the issue of the wooden track being able to change with the weather as well. With the guide wheel being able to move laterally, does allow room for contraction and expansion, but still making the wheels stay in contact with the track. And yes, their track moves, even the I-Box track as it's still attached to wooden supports. Their solution certainly is unique, but that goes in line too that they're the only ones using boxed steel as their track instead of tubing. They just took the traditional wooden track design that's been in use for nearly 100 years and just made it 100% steel. Outlaw Run's wheels are still the only wheels that use 2 different alloys for them. You can see it in the picture there. They're probably still expensive wheels considering that RMC is only having them made for 1 coaster right now, although I have a feeling there's going to be others in the future. Not all future Toppler Track coasters will be having poly wheels like Goliath.

Think he means how some of them have independent wheel bogies, much like some steel coasters trains. I know GCI's Millennium Flyer trains are fixed axle bogies, like what PTCs are, but the RMC bogie setup is different. To me, they look similar to Millennium Flyers, but I do know the guide wheel system is completely different. From the pictures I've seen of Outlaw Run's cars and of other RMC cars, it looks like the bogies are fixed, meaning the road wheels on the car cannot move with the track, but the guide wheels do have some movement so that probably helps with the side-to-side shuffling. Also being trailered cars help steering out tremendously. It's why PTC cars "shuffle" along the track instead of turning with the track as they have 2 axles per car. PTC has somewhat corrected that issue with their articulating axles, but it's a fairly limited movement so they still can shuffle around tighter turns. Timberliners though are on a whole different level, where each bogie is able to independently steer each other. I've posted this image before, but I'll post it again. Example of a PTC car on the left and the Timberliners (and to an extent, RMC trains) on the right. As you can see, it's how those trains are able to take such tight turns on their coasters. I don't think RMC trains are able to take as tight of turns as Timberliners, but the guide wheel flexibility is what gives it the ability to make those inversions so well.

Heh, yeah, chrome on a wooden roller coaster train may look nice, but probably within a week, it won't be. Wooden roller coaster trains get dirty very quickly because of the dust from the track. Not to mention bugs, and the usual messes that can happen. Whatever Valleyfair is getting in the future, whether its a used but converted Vortex coaster, a brand new B&M, Vekoma, whatever, it's all at least another year off before the announcement is made. More than likely 2016 will be the time for the small parks to shine as I can see both Valleyfair and Michigan's Adventure splitting the coaster budget for new coasters. All of the other bigger parks are currently "set" on their lineup for the near future.

I have a feeling it'll be a while, probably not until 2017 or 2018. There are currently other parks in the chain that will more than likely be receiving the larger budget rides for 2016 and it's probably the same thing with 2017. ValleyFair, Michigan's Adventure, Worlds of Fun, and Kings Dominion have not had a major capital investment in a few years. I would not be surprised if Kings Dominion is the major coaster investment for 2017, while I have a feeling the smaller parks will be splitting the big coaster budget in 2016. Dorney received Stinger in 2012 so it'll only be 3 years in 2015 since they've last received a coaster. I know many enthusiasts prefer parks to install coasters as often as they want, but when you look at the entire chain, you'll see where other parks are in more need than others. Now I'm not saying they won't be getting anything between now and 2018, but I can see smaller capital improvements, much like the Cedar Creek Eagles being installed for 2015, coming here in the next couple years.

Sit down would be a possibility to save a few bucks, although it could be a negligible cost. The last sit-down trains that were manufactured was on Led Zeppelin/Time Machine in 2008, but before that would of been Wildfire in 2001, so I think they might just go for the floorless as B&M could just convince them to spend the extra, since the floorless trains have a much superior guest experience. I mean, the orders obviously show that, considering there are well over 2x as many floorless as there are sit-down. I think if the move does happen, which I have a feeling it will, we'll more than likely see floorless trains, since I have a feeling Rougarou will be a huge improvement over Mantis. I have a feeling it'll bring the efficiency back to that ride and could possibly bring back ridership numbers that this coaster hasn't seen since its first few years. The Vortex coasters would be great little coasters converted, but obviously wouldn't really work at their current parks, which is why I see one or both of them moving somewhere else in the near future.

It's something the chain has previously been lacking under Kinzel. We saw how they failed miserably at Disaster Transport and no new dark ride was installed under him, while other chains like Six Flags and Paramount were installing the Sally dark rides. Ouimet saw that the chain previously had dark rides, but were removed or discontinued due to the parks not taking care of them. Ever since the Pirate Ride was taken out at CP in 1996, most of the GP was always wanted another dark ride back, and it was pretty much the same thing with Kingdom of the Dinosaurs. With the new technology that's available, these new dark rides can be much superior than they've ever been. I mean, they're on level with most modern video games in terms of how they react to the players and Voyage will be the next step in that.

Mind you that Canada's Wonderland has Boo Blasters and Guardian, so in this case, the old "if park A has this nearby then park B won't get it" really doesn't apply. I can see something like a dark ride coming in the future, but probably not for the next few years. I have a feeling a couple more parks are getting dark rides, but if Valleyfair is, it's at the bottom of the list. More than likely Cedar Point will be getting theirs for 2016, so it's going to be a while before any other parks will be getting one. More than likely, we'll see a coaster before a dark ride at Valleyfair, just saying.

Mind you if Vortex leaves, it'll probably be getting floorless trains to replace the terrible standup trains that are on it right now. I really doubt it if Cedar Fair would scrap it. It's not like there are structural issues, it's just running a terribly designed train and I think it could become a nice little floorless coaster for a park that probably would never get a B&M coaster otherwise. I do see a big coaster going in at CGA in the future, probably more than likely a Hyper but we'll see when the time comes.

Just a thought to you guys over in the SF area, but with Ouimet sounding like he wants to convert the stand-ups to floorless, would you want that done to Vortex? I know it's the second B&M coaster ever built, and it's been in the area for 24 years in March but to me, it seems like it wouldn't bring that much of a draw as if it was a new coaster. I mean, you do have Medusa, a much superior floorless coaster at SF Discovery Kingdom, so that's where the thought of Vortex leaving and being converted for another smaller park like Michigan's Adventure. Of course you guys would have something to replace it, like a B&M hyper or something along those lines, but I personally think that Vortex's time has passed at CA Great America, and instead of scrapping the first B&M, I do see a high probable chance it'll get moved to a smaller park and converted to floorless. Would be a win-win for both parks in my book. It'll probably be one of those situations where the park would close Vortex early in the season (much like Mantis) take it down, ship it, give it a fresh coat of paint, and install it at its new home with new floorless trains. Then as soon as Vortex is gone, construction would begin on the new coaster and ready to go for the following season.

Heh not some bad ideas, although I wouldn't exactly want to do anything with that lake considering it's partially tied into the drainage system in the park, so it makes it difficult to try to build anything. It's not deep at all, but because of how close proximity the park is to Lake Michigan, it's a very sandy area too. It's why Thunderhawk was built above the lake instead of over it. Was easier to fill in a portion of it rather than attempting to build footers out there. Not entirely sure what's going to happen for 2015, but I have heard there might be some infrastructure improvements. Saw an interesting picture taken on the last day of the season that showed a portion of the wall supporting the midway next to the lake had started bowing and splitting away from the midway. Think it might of been Facebook where I saw the picture but I have a feeling there will be some money spent getting that fixed. I'd imagine they'll be announcing the 2015 additions here in the coming weeks. There's only a couple parks left that haven't announced anything (Michigan's Adventure, Worlds of Fun, and Knott's but at least that one is less than a week away at IAAPA) so I'd imagine at least MiAd will announce theirs before Christmas. It does sound like Worlds of Fun might be having an "off" year for 2015 with the addition of SteelHawk this year, but we'll see.

Looks like Lance has the same idea I had. As much as I know you guys want that Boomerang gone at Knott's, moving one of the Vortex coasters to Michigan's Adventure seems a much more plausible chance than the Boomerang. There's already a Corkscrew here so moving a sub-par Boomerang would make little sense. Converting the Vortexs to floorless at their current parks does not make sense either, so I do believe one or both of the Vortex stand-ups will be moving to new homes at other parks that are more deserving of a "new" coaster. Vortex at CA Great America is really on some prime land right in the center of the park. Since Cedar Fair did mark the park as one of the three with the highest expansion rate in terms of growth, I can see them designing a new B&M hyper coaster that'd start at the old Invertigo garden, run through the old Tidal Wave location, then where Vortex currently stands. I forgot about Medusa so guess a floorless coaster would be out, but a nice hyper would fit the park excellently. That'd be one heck of a eye catcher seeing a B&M hyper right behind Celebration Fountain. But yeah, I know you guys want that Boomerang at Knott's gone, but if it goes, I either see it being torn down, or selling it to another park outside of the chain. I mean, heck, a small Italian park bought Wonderland's TOGO stand-up so anything is possible.

With what Ouimet said during the Q3 call, it's sounding like both Vortex stand-ups could be converted, but personally, they'd be rather boring floorless coasters at their current parks. But I think doing something like what Six Flags did with Iron Wolf and move at least the CA Great America Vortex to another park, either Michigan's Adventure or ValleyFair, converting it to a floorless model. Then CA GrAm would receive a brand new B&M floorless model at the park. Basically would benefit the parks tremendously. Now I know some of you would groan that MiAd would receive another used ride, or the thought Valleyfair would receive a "sub-par" coaster, but essentially very, very few people in the areas know about the other parks outside of the Midwest parks, and bringing Vortex over, converting it, and marketing it as what would essentially be a brand new ride, it'd work perfect. I'd think it'd hardly break $5mil for moving, installation, and buying new trains. --- Next year though, haven't heard much about what's happening. I'm not expecting anything to be added to the waterpark yet, since it's still one of the best ones in the chain for the park's size. I can see why the park decided not to install an Impulse though. In 2003, the park was basically nothing, and if they were to install both an Impulse and Grand Rapids (the highest electrical draw in the park right now) it would of required a major upgrade to their electrical line. It's also why any launch coaster at the moment would be impractical for the park. It'd basically be in the situation with what Holiday World is in right now with building Thunderbird and building a fly-wheel generator. Not enough draw from the main power line from the city. And please, keep the boomerangs away! Don't need another Vekoma! I do see though a Chance Hyper-GTX being built here, although I can imagine a merge of plans between the old Morgan hyper that never got built and Chance kicking it up a notch with throwing in some elements from the GTX lineup. It'd work out either way for the park.

Cedar Fair should have never sent them to Carowinds Actually that was Paramount that did that. They took them out in 2004 for Italian Job and I thought it was right up there with one of Paramount's stupidest ideas. Why relocate a ride that has been in the area for 30+ years to another park several hundred miles away

Can probably guess it'll be a Flying Scooters at a minimum. Would make some of the locals happy too since they lost their Flying Eagles under Paramount cause they thought it'd be better to ship them to a different park rather than reinstalling them. They already have a Disk-O, Surf Dog. It was installed under Paramount and was basically the reason why Cedar Fair decided to add more to the chain since it's a great family friendly ride.

*duplicate*

As long as there's 2 people working the ride, load times can be a lot better. One unloads and unbuckles while the other loads and height checks, then both check once everyone's seated. The capacity is what hurts these, especially when you get a bunch of kids that want to ride by themselves. If you have 2 people that know the ride and work very well together, can burn through a line pretty well. Wonder how many more Scooters we'll see appear next year. Really happy Cedar Fair has decided to continue adding these to their parks. Maybe we'll see if Kings Island will be the next park to announce they're adding a Flying Scooters!

It was at the end of Main Street right next to the old carousel, so I'm gonna guess it's gone now since it looks to have been replaced by some sort of structure according to Google Maps. It still shows it though on Bing Maps. The park bought the old "afro" fountain, as some people called it, when Cedar Point removed it for the splash pad fountains that are there now. Was a nice way to get a little piece of park history, I'm just afraid that the old owners may have scrapped it when that structure (not entirely sure what it was) was built at the end of Main Street. It was a pretty cool looking feature piece, even though AA used some fairly weak pumps on it so it didn't look as spectacular as it did when it was at Cedar Point.

Pretty awesome that Dan gave so much info about the status of the park. Can tell they really care for the park and it's getting the much needed TLC. Really sad to hear how bad some of the infrastructure is. I knew the ride side was obviously in rough shape, but wasn't expecting to hear that the water park has issues. Guess the previous owners really did cheap out when they were building their attractions. I wouldn't be surprised if the park manages to pick up a couple more flat rides for next year, obviously Pat will get her wish and wouldn't be surprised if they order a brand new Eli Bridge Scrambler. Also does anyone know if the old Cedar Point bubble fountain survived the park transition? I didn't hear what happened to it after the park went water park only.