parkjunkie

I suppose I could say the same about SFOT. In fairness, I must applaud the efforts of Steve Martindale and SFOT Management. They always make sure that our park receives something respectable each year. If it was a Star Flyer, then it would be the 400ft version. If it was flats, then we would get the best flats money could buy. We are still the only SF park to haved received a Zamperla Endeavor ride. And ours has twice the seating capacity of the one at Coney. Say what you will about our forth coming S&S 4d Free Fly. It least it's not a Larson Loop or used bumper cars. Hopefully, SFSTL management is planning for something big in the future. Who knows, maybe that RMC T-Rex Giga is on the horizon. To be fair, we've been hearing that "something big is coming" propaganda since like 2008. It's a forgotten link in the SF chain, dependent on goobers who flock there without any actual awareness that their park is sub-par in the whole SF chain. In other words, the company has no need to add anything of value to our park, because the toothless hillbillies think a boring, one-trick Disk-O or a horrible boomerang is something special. Face it. We're stuck with this crap. Get used to it. Better yet, plan some roadtrips to actual good parks.... Clearly you guys have not been paying attention to what HWFan and myself have been saying, so I will say it one more time. Does the park need a signiture coaster, yes. But the park needed general improvements more. Lets say that in 2013 instead of Boomerang we got a signiture coaster, not the greatest thing ever but an all around good ride. People start flocking to the park that season and see all the things that need painting and repair. Many of those people would leave with the opinion that the ride was good but the park looked terrible and wouldn't return till the next big thing is built which would be years. What they instead are doing is installing small additions to replace aging and unpopular rides and taking the remaining funds and funneling it into general park improvements. This phase should be wrapping up soon just in time for the parks 50th year. I see Spinsanity as a step forward, we have gotten past the point of every addition is a replacement for something and now we are expanding the portfolio. Compare the park today to were it was back in 2012 or 2013 and it is a significant improvement. There is a method to the madness and reasons for the way things are being done. Once you figure out the method you realize that it truly isn't madness at all, but logic. You obviously haven't been around the park that long as some of us others have, we've been hearing about park improvements for OVER A DECADE and it isn't happening, they have done more than they used to do, but no where CLOSE to what theyve needed to be. As long as they keep doing small park improvements and not large ones, theyll never catch up and theyll always be 3 steps behind. Im not being negative, Im being realistic in the sense that Ive been watching it happen for well over a decade. Ask any maintenance staff, youll see.... Until they invest at MINIMUM of 4-6 million into improvements and hire a ton of contractors to help the full time maintenance staff, the park will continue to be be a semi polished turd. Except they HAVE done pretty huge things, I don't know why you insist on being so argumentative with someone who works at the park and sees what happens and how things function from a day-to-day basis. To be honest I'm getting really sick and tired of everyone constantly shooting down any actual reason and fairness on this forum and trying to counter it with a bunch of muddled nonsense. Last year they renovated the entire freaking Palace Theater, including the whole interior and exterior, which was a HUGE investment and needed to be done, and just this season they opened up a brand new restaurant where one hadn't existed for years, repainted the facade by Batman, the facade for The Boss, they're retheming Pandemonium now, there was even more theming added to Thunder River, more and more landscaping jobs are being created every year, this year having the most, and yet people like you are most likely going to keep saying that they don't invest crap into the park, give me a break. And you wonder why HWFan keeps his distance from this forum now. now I'LL be the one who says PAY ATTENTION to CHRISGRASLIE...... what does the very first line of my last message say?..... do you think HWfan is the ONLY person on here that works at the park? Do you think HWFan is the only one who speaks with management?.... if you've read these forums much, youll see that he is NOT the only one who works at the park or has very close association and business with it. SOOOO, Ill say again my first line for you in case you missed it.... "You obviously haven't been around the park that long as some of us others have, we've been hearing about park improvements for OVER A DECADE and it isn't happening, they have done more than they used to do, but no where CLOSE to what theyve needed to be." I even said that YES, they HAVE been making improvements, but theyre on pace to NEVER CATCH UP!...... just reread my last post again so that it can sink in fully please. Sorry for coming off so harsh, it just really ticks me off when people run their mouths without reading or knowing what theyre talking about!!!

I suppose I could say the same about SFOT. In fairness, I must applaud the efforts of Steve Martindale and SFOT Management. They always make sure that our park receives something respectable each year. If it was a Star Flyer, then it would be the 400ft version. If it was flats, then we would get the best flats money could buy. We are still the only SF park to haved received a Zamperla Endeavor ride. And ours has twice the seating capacity of the one at Coney. Say what you will about our forth coming S&S 4d Free Fly. It least it's not a Larson Loop or used bumper cars. Hopefully, SFSTL management is planning for something big in the future. Who knows, maybe that RMC T-Rex Giga is on the horizon. To be fair, we've been hearing that "something big is coming" propaganda since like 2008. It's a forgotten link in the SF chain, dependent on goobers who flock there without any actual awareness that their park is sub-par in the whole SF chain. In other words, the company has no need to add anything of value to our park, because the toothless hillbillies think a boring, one-trick Disk-O or a horrible boomerang is something special. Face it. We're stuck with this crap. Get used to it. Better yet, plan some roadtrips to actual good parks.... Clearly you guys have not been paying attention to what HWFan and myself have been saying, so I will say it one more time. Does the park need a signiture coaster, yes. But the park needed general improvements more. Lets say that in 2013 instead of Boomerang we got a signiture coaster, not the greatest thing ever but an all around good ride. People start flocking to the park that season and see all the things that need painting and repair. Many of those people would leave with the opinion that the ride was good but the park looked terrible and wouldn't return till the next big thing is built which would be years. What they instead are doing is installing small additions to replace aging and unpopular rides and taking the remaining funds and funneling it into general park improvements. This phase should be wrapping up soon just in time for the parks 50th year. I see Spinsanity as a step forward, we have gotten past the point of every addition is a replacement for something and now we are expanding the portfolio. Compare the park today to were it was back in 2012 or 2013 and it is a significant improvement. There is a method to the madness and reasons for the way things are being done. Once you figure out the method you realize that it truly isn't madness at all, but logic. You obviously haven't been around the park that long as some of us others have, we've been hearing about park improvements for OVER A DECADE and it isn't happening, they have done more than they used to do, but no where CLOSE to what theyve needed to be. As long as they keep doing small park improvements and not large ones, theyll never catch up and theyll always be 3 steps behind. Im not being negative, Im being realistic in the sense that Ive been watching it happen for well over a decade. Ask any maintenance staff, youll see.... Until they invest at MINIMUM of 4-6 million into improvements and hire a ton of contractors to help the full time maintenance staff, the park will continue to be be a semi polished turd.

McBride & Son home bought all of it, they started clearing it last November and are building 4 neighborhoods, a park, and an elementary school. Apparently there is a clause for home buyers that they can not complain about any noises coming from the park. I too heard that the new residents can not complain, but it will be a surprise if they don't, after a few years these residents will not be happy campers considering they're living in McBride homes. McBride homes are subpar built homes and one of the problems with a McBride home is supposedly they don't keep noise out very well..... that along with many other complaints about the homes, the complaining will then turn to Six Flags... you just wait and see, I was truthfully very surprised when i heard McBride was building these and not another company.

Haven't been on here a ton, so I'm not sure if that has been talked about...... but I thought some of you might find this interesting... The land that the park sold off has almost been completely cleared already

The person who posted it... the park isn't open, so the person who took the pic is an employee. The advertisement was put up for this weekend when the park reopens. I just can't believe they just straight up spoiled it for some of you. Alot of us have kept quiet for a reason. They could have at least just given hints.... There's always that "1" person

Sorry guys, haven't been on in a while and I don't know if this has been talked about yet, but I know we had discussed it briefly a while back, but when it comes to Holiday World marketing very heavily in our area, they are going all the way now it seems. Now they have corporate sponsorships with local St Louis companies.

Monk's for good pub food River's Edge is probably one of the best restaurants Mr. Pancake best breakfast

Banshee... Im not a huge fan of Inverts, but Banshee was absolutely amazing, loved the hanger inline twist, definitely different for a B&M invert

^ It used to be Calico's Fried Chicken for many many years. After it was closed, it was used for numerous different things... secondary season pass location, secondary first aid/ cooling station, storage, secondary kitchen and food prep location.... They've desperately needed to reopen this location for years, and from what I've heard now, because of the disaster in food service, it IS reopening as another restaurant..... but I haven't received exact word on what it will be, what it will serve, or how often it will be open

hahahahahaha, not only did I pee my pants laughing at that, I slipped and fell in the puddle

You must be talking about that 300 foot Mule-Go-Round BETTER THAN THAT!!! the Dippin' Dots guy said his brother's ex-girlfriend's sister's boss's roommate's mailman confirmed it being the "Reverse 500 ft Mule-Go-Round Coaster"

Yes, but that's kind of a tall order. Literally and figuratively speaking. I like to think realistically, so I think even a run of the mill Hyper is even a bit of an exaggeration. You're thinking smart. I'm pretty certain we wont see a hyper of ANY kind in at least the next 5-7 years. I obviously dont know everything in store for the parks future, but I "have an idea" if you catch my drift. A major new coaster is not something I see happening in the foreseeable future for SFSTL, but there are things coming, does that mean something big is out of the question, absolutely not. Usually corporate has options for each park, 1 option being leaned towards more than the other, and for the most part that is what happens, one instance we got the less of a chance option was AmThunder... not a bad addition by any means, but I would have liked to have seen something with a better layout, but it was cheaper to use a predesigned layout and AmThunder's layout worked to keep the moon cars, so I get it. Of course there have been so many options that we have lost out to, and the same goes for some of the other smaller SF parks... and of course everyone knows about our lost Hyper. But SFoG got that rare 95% chance not happening happen. But did you know there were plans at SFSTL back in the day for an Intamin Freefall instead of Rush Street Flyer. Or how about the AquaPlex multi slide for HH. And then there was the plans for a larger coaster on Freeze island right before Freeze came along. These are just a few that stick out in my head. Anyway, there may or may not be an option out there for SFSTL that I would put in the moderate category. Is it big... for SFSTL standards I would say probably. Is it unique... meh, matter of opinion. Is it a coaster... maaaaaaaybe. Is it a "I'm gonna drive 400 miles for this ride"... probably not. Again, this is an option, not a guarantee, and is it going to happen next year, 95% not, but still on the table for future depending what other options get thrown on the table. In the long run, I would try to prep yourself for more clones, more copies, more generic rides... overall, get used to SFSTL just being kind of like the generic mall food court, many options, but the same can be found elsewhere and nothing unique, but maybe the rare pop up exotic cuisine gets thrown in the mix at some point.

I pretty much follow Prozach's logic... almost to a T. Of course i dont have to buy my way into SFSTL considering a perk of being an employee is free visits, but that... that right there should say something... I can go whenever I want for free, yet rather spend my money going somewhere else that has something much better to offer. As far as attendance, SFSTL's numbers aren't bad, but arent great either. They usually hit their projected goal, but literally by just a small handful.... there were a few seasons in the past 10 years that were not met... in the long run, the long future projections they had in mind 10 years ago for this time arent close to what they thought. The problem is SF relies on cheap season pass sales to lure people in... it works but it doesnt and ill tell you why. Yes, SFSTL sells the hell out of season passes, actually one of the strongest in the chain for its market size which is good. The problem is for many years, our season passes were cheaper than other SF parks, so what would happen is, visitors from other cities with SF parks would renew at our park to save money. Youre probably thinking that is good for SFSTL... WRONG! When a season pass is bought, the park it is sold at gets a small chunk of that right off the bat. The rest is held to see where the seaosn pass is used. If the season pass is used at 1 park, that park sees the profit, if its used at multi parks, it is divided up. If it is used at primarily at 1 park, then once or twice somewhere else, the primary park sees most if not all of it. The downfall to this is a lot of passes are bought at our park, but then primarily used at other parks. Now, you probably think that if that many people are coming here to renew, we must be seeing some of the cut... no again, because if they visited their home SF park 6, 7, 8 times, then ours once, we arent seeing any $$ from that... once that oerson had a SFSTL season pass, they would renew online for SFSTL instead of their home park and save money. And on the flipside, we dont see as many other parks passes come to us to get a cut. The system has been worked over since all of this, but still kind of follows the same guidelines.

I would argue longer than that, I'd say 20 years. The Boss was a cheap alternate to a Hyper. Then we lost our Hyper to SFOG. All the frigging hand-me-downs from Texas (Astroworld, Dallas). I guess the two highlights are American Thunder and Justice League (when it is working). My family used to have passes but we haven't renewed in years. Instead we road trip every summer for a weekend at another park in the Midwest. It was decided a weekend trip is better than a season at SFSTL. And this is the mentality that more and more people are using... and for those who are looking for new options and are not as savvy as us when it comes to amusement parks, adds from HW and WisDells are a welcomed site to them and they now have an option they may not have known they had before. WHen it comes to saying 20 years.... eeehhhhh, I kind of see what you mean. I think 1998 was the last all around decent year and the park still looked good and was still running well... then it kind of started coming back around 3 or 4 years ago, but now slipping again... but I see where youre coming from. I guess its all in the way each person perceived it and if their wants and expectations were met..... lets just break it down the middle and say 15 years lol

OK, I'll say this... in a way its a coincidence and in a way its not. I understand you dont just throw commercials on TV and buy space on a billboard overnite, it takes time to find what billboards you want and find alotted time spots for TV commercials, but its not coincidence of WHY they are advertising in this the STL area... Im not sure if they do, but do you think they advertise around Cincinnati... you have Kings Island which is a great park with one of the best kids areas, a decent water park and Great Wolf next door... pretty hard sell... but if they DO advertise around Cincy, I'm sure its MUCH less than around here. Yes, they are absolutely preying on an injured victim, and I dont blame them one bit, very smart marketting move to go that route... I'd do the same thing. So, coincidence... yes and no! And I want to clear something up, yes, in a way I'm ranting, but in a way I'm not, I'm just stating obvious clear cut facts. Even though it may be hard to tell, but I love SFSTL, as a veteraned employee and it being my home park all of my life... and the reason why I get so mad is because there is no reason SFSTL is the way it is. It was neglected and run into the ground for over a decade, and the past few years they have tried to bring it back up to status again, but they havent tried hard enough. And CERTAIN management and execs at SFSTL can help the cause, but some dont take their jobs serious enough, some have no business being in this industry because they have no idea what they are doing... theyre in it for a paycheck and thats it, and the others just roll over to corporate instead of standing up as a team and getting SFSTL back to status.

I've said it before and I will say it again. Parks outside of the St. Louis area have no effect on SFSTL's attendence. Now if I were to open a park 10mins. down the road it would be a different story. There is no invasion into the STL market. Now if a company came and opened a park near the STL area then yes, that would indeed be a threat to SFSTL's attendence. I always value your opinions and agree a lot with what you say on here, and Im not trying to argue with you, but they absolutely do. They didnt used to maybe 10 years ago, but they definitely do now, trust me tey do, surveyys dont lie. Not to mention the amount of people who from this area now are not onlu going to HW, but getting season passes there. Now this next part is my opinion, but I truly believe you can see this yourself when walking around the park.... take a look at the type of clientele that walks around SFSTL, its getting trashier and rougher looking all the time, and thats because people that have more money to spend are going elsewhere. Look at the STL region. It seems to be getting worse every year. In a regional park the actions and attitudes of clientele refelect back upon the region the park serves. What Im saying is the amount of trash clientele hasn't risen, but becasue of our cheap prices they keep coming out and the everyday "valued" guests are sick out it and are coming less and less, thus raising the percentage of trash vs no trash... You mark my word, unless drastic for the better changes start happening immediately, SFSTL will be in the same boat it was 10 years ago...

I've said it before and I will say it again. Parks outside of the St. Louis area have no effect on SFSTL's attendence. Now if I were to open a park 10mins. down the road it would be a different story. There is no invasion into the STL market. Now if a company came and opened a park near the STL area then yes, that would indeed be a threat to SFSTL's attendence. I always value your opinions and agree a lot with what you say on here, and Im not trying to argue with you, but they absolutely do. They didnt used to maybe 10 years ago, but they definitely do now, trust me tey do, surveyys dont lie. Not to mention the amount of people who from this area now are not onlu going to HW, but getting season passes there. Now this next part is my opinion, but I truly believe you can see this yourself when walking around the park.... take a look at the type of clientele that walks around SFSTL, its getting trashier and rougher looking all the time, and thats because people that have more money to spend are going elsewhere.

I know for a fact that marketing outside of the metro area is huge, but for WisDells and HW to both at the same time hit the STL market isnt just coincidence.... yes WisDaells is more of a tourist destination and has a bigger market, just like SDC, but they never have in the STL before, and now HW TOO!!?? They are absolutely doing so because they know SFSTL is having issues and they are taking advantage by basically saying "hey, for all you that are sick of SFSTL and its generics and lack of so much, COME CHECK US OUT INSTEAD!" As much as I do support my hometown park that Ive grown up with all my life, something needs to change and NOW! No, I DEFINITELY dont think this is an Astroworld situation, but SFSTL will begin to hurt.... trust me... this isnt just a hunch... theres some knowledge behind this. Sadly, I believe its too late to play catch up though. In the past 10 years, SFSTL really needed to focus on infrastructure... landscaping, paving pathways, MAJOR MAJOR upkeep, and the ridding of some of the stubborn management, but they didnt, they just kept polishing a turd. They had a chance during that timeframe to really turn the park around to put it back on the map, instead, they just sat injured and now they are being preyed on. To really put this into perspective and get the competitors from trying to invade our territory, the park would need to close end of September and not reopen until May, and during that 7 month shut down, invest a minimum of $30-$40 mil just in infrastructure and upkeep to make the place look at least somewhat new again... give it a look, and ambiance, then revisit how the park is run and go from there...

Just something I've found interesting... Silverdollar City has always run commercials and ads in the STL area, but suddenly there has been Holiday World commercials running along with Wisconsin Dells commercials.... but Ive seen very very few Sis Flags commercials. With SFSTL not having the best reputation among locals and some enthusiasts over the past decade and then even more so lately, this makes me wonder what this means for the future. These commercials are reaching millions of people, with half of who have never known or heard of these destinations. If this continues the next year or so and SFTSL doesn't really step up their game, do not be surprised to see a dramatic drop in attendance the next few years... less attendance, less income, less income means less upgrades and new goodies, less new goodies and upgrades means even less attendance, and so on and so on.. yes, SFSTL is my home park, yes I am a veteraned employee, yes I sometimes question what the hell SFSTL is doing and thinking, but for the first time, Im actually worried and think if something major doesnt happen soon, what that could mean for SFSTL overall... just something to think about.....

UM......hmmmm......... WRONG.... that math is WAAAAY off.... 30 years, not 40..... but thanks for playing..... but we have a wonderful consolation prize for you.... you can have it back and we'll throw in Boomerang for ya"

Bring in the demolition crews!!! Scary incident, thankfully not any worse than it was. All Safety, Security, Emergency responder, management, and ride crew did a great job handling the situation... kudos

Not to mention, if SFSTL ever was given $30 mil, I would want it going towards a one of a kind, new, good steel coaster and towards majorly fixing up and upgrading the EXISTING park. They need to take care of the rest of the park first before adding on to it. Adding an entire new section doesn't fix the rest of the parks run down look, that's just another area of the park to eventually get run down. To put into perspective the amount it would cost to add an entire new section, think about this, back in 2006 when they added S:TOP and BBNP, that whole offseason upgrade cost $25 mil.

Why sell it? Now if they ever want to expand they will have to rebuy land. Short term gain, long term loss. There will be no rebuying that land. It is being used for a housing development. Why keep land that isnt being used or will not likely be used when you can sell it for cash for other projects. The park is not going to be in any danger of running out of land anytime soon they still have plenty left over. I'd be interested to see a map of what they currently own after the sale of that eastern chunk of land. I always wondered what the plan was gonna be if/when they decided to develop it. They only had that small strip of land by Tidal Wave to connect to the other property. Seems like the feng shui would've been thrown off. There was never any plan for that land.... a VERY long time ago there was thought, but thats about all it was. This discussion has been had many time on here before, but the reason a large expansion would or will never happen is one reason... COST. To run utilities, new sewer lines, infrastructure, pathways, and everything else even before rides would be well over $10 mil. Once you add a few rides and attractions, easily $30 mil... not going to happen. At best, i could POSSIBLY see the road that goes from Batman gate to Tidal Wave gate become a pathway expansion, but HIGHLY HIGHLY doubt that will ever happen. The only way the park would or will use that land is for a coaster.... and who says thats not already a possibility....

Daily inspections start before park open, but if maintenance is working on them past open time, they still need to be reinspected, just as if an e-stop was made or a breakdown. The only rides that may get inspected last minute or "late" would be the ones in the back due to the time it takes guests to get to them.... They generally work front to back. Early entry is to keep the front gates and metal detection free flowing and not backed up and relieve them of pressure... large crowds packed together like that in the front are a security and safety risk... And they also do it to make a few sales in the front mall area and drink stands so that when the gates do open, the lines for those stands don't block the way of all those guests trying to come in and slow down the entry process. As far as informing the guests of non moving lines, some rides do not have speakers... Yes, I agree they should have workers at those rides verbally face to face letting the guests know, and I have no idea why they do not. But I do know at rides that do have speakers, they generally do inform. HWFan.... Anything I forgot here?