HWFan

I must admit that my favorite Holiday World billboard I've seen has the big bold words, "GO BIG, NOT FAR." Whether it was a play off of "GO BIG, GO SIX FLAGS" or not, I really have to hand it to them for their creativity.

Great article! As if I needed another reason to visit Tokyo Disneyland...... Hopefully more articles like this come out in the future. It's nice to see an article about theme parks by someone very knowledgable about them, rather than a GP-type journalist using a couple quick Google searches to throw something together. The addition of Holiday World was great. They actually did a Christmas event for a few years, but after they couldn't make money, they canceled it. They did the same with a Halloween event but ended up bringing it back successfully (well....the first year ended in the red). Hopefully we'll see a Christmas event in the future as the park grows.

^Did any of those rumors include a hyper coaster?

You have to admit it was a colossally bold attempt to make it on the new mini hotness tour. Plus, it isn't easy to install multiple installations of what can be the coasters with the most inversions in the world! Holiday World does have a great record with opening new rides by opening day. The only one I can remember that didn't open on time was Gobbler Getaway, which I'm sure was barely noticeable with the Voyage next door. Anyway, a new photo on Twitter this morning had the caption, "Will the final piece of Thunderbird track go up today?" I just can't get enough pictures of this coaster. The trees around it just make it ten times cooler, in my opinion.

That's MY job, pal. Your new profile picture threw me off there! Out of all the devils advocates out there, you're the best, prozach. But yea, I totally understand the track record, which points to bad maintenance. There is one reason why I think you should at least be more optimistic about this ride, however. From the first day it opened, Scooby had maintenance issues. A lot of these had to do with the small lift in the middle of the ride. The heavier boats with the new battery packs were too much for the lift to consistently carry without issue. I don't know why this wasn't addressed at the time, but Scooby was doomed from the beginning because of this, which was only made worse by issues with the flume, pumps, and plumbing due to its age. It was like putting makeup to cover a blemish or paint on rotting wood, especially when the wood wasn't even designed to take that type of paint in the first place. With this new ride, they are basically starting from scratch to create a ride where all of the infrastructure is designed for that ride alone. Even Scooby's maintenance budget that it received in the past would keep this new ride looking great. Plus, the Scooby boats needed almost constant work in the fiberglass shop due to their age. This is all I'm going to say, because in the end, only time will tell. Stay safe, and we really appreciate your service. Being at SLU Monday night, I was very thankful for everyone keeping us safe. Even the dozen federal police living in the Federal Courthouse in E.STL where my mom works are much appreciated. Coasters aside, stay warm, and I'm supporting you all.

I agree completely about Twisted Colossus. I rode Colossus for the first time in August, and it was a fun ride. However, I think a lot of the locals, especially, get too caught up in their own nostalgia for the ride. This phenomena really applies to a lot of parks when they close or change an old ride. With the Boss, Dave is not trying to have some fun with throwing enthusiasts off. He is being straightforward, so you don't get your hopes up. Iron horse Boss or Screamin Eagle really isn't something that is realistic right now, although plans can change, so never say never.

To be fair, things on paper and things as built change all the time. Six Flags going to trusted vendors in Oceaneering & Sally is a positive sign, but we have yet to see if Six Flags can deliver on the "planned" quality. Another huge question mark will be if Six Flags can handle the maintenance on the ride. Those vehicles are sure to be expensive to maintain. Not to mention the projectors, media servers, etc.that go with the ride. To be fair, I wasn't aware that people who really just don't like Six Flags can come and make a statement, with absolutely zero factual or insider information backing it up, and have that statement carries just as much weight as statements based on factual information. From what I could tell by going back in his posts, that was his only post in this thread, meaning he came here just to say that. I understand that you're playing devil's advocate, which is usually good, but even your reasoning was a little bit flawed. The ride vehicle, animatronics, and the couple of scenery pictures that have been released all look top notch in theming. Besides Sally, Transformers had almost (if not the) the exact same companies taking care of each part of the ride. I never saw any comments worrying about Transformer's "planned" quality being fully delivered. Six Flags signed the contracts to purchase everything with the rides. It isn't as much up to Six Flags anymore. If the quality isn't what it should be when the ride opens, it is 99% the fault of the manufacturers who did not deliver on the product that was promised. I'm sorry for getting up on my soapbox here, but especially since JLBM was announced, I have been lobbying to give as much information as possible to the people who frequent this forum. It can be frustrating (I know from multiple members of this forum) when I am putting my reputation on this forum on the line just to convince people who don't believe it just because it is Six Flags. As the park, is evolving to really do the most with what they have to increase the Guest experience, they aren't going to announce anything about the ride that isn't 110% sure to be done in the "planned" quality.They are even going to "plus it" with multiple special effects in the ride. Those effects haven't been named in full detail or exactly where they will be on the very slim chance that there is an issue. The vehicles will have down time, just as Spiderman & Transformers have down time. However, it's not going to be enough to matter in the grand scheme of things in the park. In terms of the layout, as it was able to really take advantage of the ride vehicles' special features, is going to be really cool as well. It is important to be skeptical in life, and I have definitely been critical of the park/chain, during the Shapiro years. However, Six Flags is building a ride that is the top dark ride, technologically, outside of a Universal or Disney park in the country (if Knotts doesn't pull out any kind of secret elements). The park IS going to have the budget and training to keep this ride going well and any part of the "planned" experience that has been announced will be at least met, if not exceeded. I'm not paid to make Six Flags or anyone associated with them look good. I post on here because I like answering questions and getting information to users that they wouldn't always be able to have access to that information before. I do it because I love the park and the way it is headed. You may have hesitations or want clarifications on certain points, but doing things like coming into the thread, dropping a Six Flags bashing post with nothing to back it up and then immediately leaving the thread is just does not promote discussion. Not talking as much about that post specifically, but when I bring a lot of cool new information about the park to the thread, the "planned" quality of the outcome of the post seems to be a lot different sometimes from what actually happens on the thread.

Wow, great pictures! I always enjoy any TR from parks in China/Japan. The theming over there is amazing at all of the big parks. Now does that region get a lot more rain than where the US parks are that the covering over the entrance areas is a necessity, or is it just that they have the budget to create a nice covered area for Guests to shop and hang out when it rains? This is one of my favorite Tokyo DisneySea TRs because I didn't realize how many little small areas and to catch your breath or enjoy a great view of the park there are. I like parks that include plenty of small areas to get a break from the crowds providing a more personal experience, and the fact that DisneySea even has their theming top notch is incredible. I hope to visit the Disney & Universal parks in the future, but for now the trip reports are always really nice to see. Now my question is how will the Six Flags parks look in Asia? With someone else owning it and due to the competition, I'm hoping they will really have great theming. Edit: With the ticket to get into Hogsmede, they did something similar at IOA for a while because it was so crazy (They still do it a couple days a year maybe if it's too crazy). I wonder when, if ever, crowds will get down to the level where that is no longer needed. I do appreciate the system, as I would rather wait until later in the day if it means having a more enjoyable experience in terms of crowds.

^Thanks for sharing some of that awesome insight! Honestly she has probably been to more parks and other entertainment venues than anyone else her age. I'm sure she could get plenty of consultant contracts with that experience! And that's really interesting looking at the changing demographics and the analysis of where to post certain things and the trade offs regarding where you post them. Do you have a degree in marketing or a related field? I know that sometimes experience is the best teacher (like Will Koch who originally went for a business degree but already knew it all from experience, so he changed to engineering). Either way, thanks again. We'll see if I get to go to IAAPA next year with park reps or not, but even if I don't, at least I'll still have your coverage. Thanks again.

I can't believe I am going to say this, bit I think the Justice League right will be better the Iron Reef. Iron reef is all screens with minimal physical set pieces. I agree. I tend to prefer rides that emphasize physical effects more than projections (Spider-man at IOA has a good balance, though). While I agree with the JLBM being better than the Iron Reef, I'm going to play devil's advocate with the screens to prop ratios at both parks. I don't know much about the Iron Reefs use of physical sets, but with JLBM, I would still say the emphasis of the ride is on the screens. If a ride can achieve a good balance, realistic 3D can really enhance a ride by taking you places that wouldn't be possible, especially in the given show building. I also believe that the ride vehicle is just as important. A regular Sally vehicle wouldn't work because it wouldn't feel real no matter how great the 3D movies are. Given the layout, interactivity, Joker, and other surprises, I think that this will be better than Transformers (which is one of my favorite rides) in terms of just being fun. It isn't, but that shouldn't really change the Guest's experience. I think that this is due to a kind of rebirth, if you will, of dark rides. It started with Universal really crushing Disney, which I usually prefer, with rides like the Forbidden Journey and Transformers. The technology has just exploded recently with a much larger emphasis on ride vehicles and 3D screens as a way to create more exciting and immersive experiences while surpassing the passive ride-through and maybe shoot some targets, which can still be awesome rides. With Cedar Fair and Six Flags both getting serious about dark rides mixed with the wider availability and affordability (still super expensive, but not $20 million expensive) of incredible ride technology that is more exciting and appealing to a larger group of the GP, more parks will be able to offer top notch attractions. It'll be interesting how/if this will push Disney to really increase their own ride technology. Can you imagine if a Guest rode JLBM and then got directly on the thawed or non-Frozen version of Maelstrom? I love the way this growing competition is helping to move things forward. Even Mack built an amazing, brand-new dark ride experience that could be applied in an infinite amount of ways. Well, he is a super villain, so he is very good at stealing things. The SFSL Park President, Director of Operations, and Director of Marketing were all lightheartedly discussing what the ride's nickname should be. They were stuck between Justice, Metropolis, and JL. I don't know why they didn't like my suggestion of just BM...

One of the things that brought me to TPR was the more fun, lighthearted, humorous type of attitude. A perfect example of this is Robb's response to the Maelstrom Frozen upgrade. While other sites were freaking out as if the entire world showcase was being torn down to add a 23 year old Boomerang (which makes no sense at all ), the common sense and reality based commentary, not to mention that dolls ride through video. I was just wondering if you have found most of the manufacturers to really personable and enthusiastic when you talk to them, like the fact that Sandor was so happy to hear about KidTums loving Zumanjaro? Getting to test the S&S prototype, I'm sure S&S is like that too. The IAAPA from a kid's perspective was one of the best updates, because kids are a huge part of the market. I'm sure the different vendors were happy to see her. When everything has to be almost instant today due to social media and our society's love for instant gratification, following the Twitter feed was my favorite thing this year rather than having to wait for pictures and videos to be edited and uploaded, which obviously is no small task. At first, I was disappointed without the long company interview videos, but my opinion quickly changed. While those videos were really good, having shorter videos up faster that are covering specific events was a great format. I know that with many websites, the more page views and exposure you get, the higher your ad revenue and other advancement is. (However, I don't have any idea how your site and everything works and am just making educated assumptions based on other similar website set ups. I apologize if I'm wrong.) Just the fact that you're constantly trying to improve your coverage instead of just doing the exact same thing for years, is highly appreciated. Having the best theme park/coaster enthusiast website that's free to use and includes daily updated, trip reports, and much more seems to be even more than a full time job, so I try to support TPR as much as possible. You have even found the time and energy to support Give Kids the World. As an alum of the Make-A-Wish program, that just makes me so happy. I'm sorry that this is so long, but as many times as you spend thanking your fans and followers, we're really the ones that should be thanking you, as well as everyone who helps with TPR. Getting to stamp KidTums' hand while Robb took a picture on their way out of SFSL last summer is still a high point of that summer. It was kind of like meeting someone famous and its almost weird seeing them in real life. Anyway, I'm sorry this was so long, but seriously, thank you, especially for all of the behind the scenes work/planning that makes the everything else possible. Congrats on your record IAAPA exposure, and I wish you the best growing that number in the future.

I was what kind of information you have that pointed to the ride being sub-par to the way it is being made to look. I didn't know if your sources told you anything, because if so, could you elaborate a little bit more? Since you brought in this "smart money" reference, the budget for the ride (which SF is not publicly disclosing) points to an amazing ride. If it turns out as anything less, Six Flags deserves a huge refund. Six Flags could have gone with the regular Sally cars, like the ones used at the JL ride at WB in Australia. The GP would have still been amazed by the ride, and SF would have saved such a huge amount of money that it still amazes me how much each ride vehicle costs. They're going all out for this ride, so if there is a reason it won't be turning out like planned, then I definitely am interested.

^ While I know it will take years to shake a lot of the old SF jokes whether it is cleanliness, ride maintenance, service, etc, if you pay attention, Jim Reid-Anderson's mindset could not be more different than his recent predecessors. He feels a lot less of the 1% corporate type attitudes that caused the mess in 2008. Instead, he is much more down to earth, including the dinners attended by the park presidents compared to Shapiro. He sends emails to the whole company quite often talking about exciting things for the company and each individual park always working in his personal experiences with his family in the parks. He even ends all of his email with any random song, movie, or book that he discovered and really liked (he really enjoyed Gone Girl, for instance). I'm a huge fan of his. Part of his new attitude and the way the parks are heading includes dark ride maintenance. Enthusiasts have complained because there are only two animatronics (even though they're amazing) with the ride, but it was partially done to make sure maintenance will be able to keep them running like new for years to come. But that was pretty clever, and I'm rather embarrassed due to how long it took me to get the joke.

SFSL has one and used it for Fright Fest this year. The actress was amazing, which really made the puppet incredible. For a few of the nights she was within 5-10ft from the exit gates. People would get so scared that she would have to go to the other side of the front mall, escorted by a security officer, before they would get anywhere near by the exit to leave. A lot of people didn't like getting scared by it...at a halloween event.

Edit: Sorry about the double post. I must have been getting light-headed thinking of the air-time on Twisted Colossus.

If you would do one of the videos as a parody of the original Twilight Zone episodes, that would be amazing. I'm not sure if "for your viewing pleasure" was a nod to TZ, ToT, Rod Serling, etc, but you could be "Rod Alvey". Either way, those videos are great! Ouch! I'm gonna need some ice for that burn. As a Six Flags employee who puts 55+ hours and 6+ days a week physically on top of pouring myself emotionally into my job because I love being able to help create the best Guest experience possible during the summer, I know that I'm not an average employee and this joke isn't directed at me. I definitely understand where this is coming from, and I must admit that I chuckled at this for at least a couple of minutes. Plus, I love any witty or sarcastic joke just with my sense of humor, especially because taking ourselves to seriously in this industry is always good to avoid. But in all seriousness, if you ever deal with an employee that is really bad, please let Guest Relations know if possible. I know personally that at SFSL, complaints/compliments are taken very seriously. Have a Six Flags...or Six-Tastic(?)...or whatever we're saying now.....Day!

Part of the reason why Oceaneering was chosen to manufacture the vehicles is because they had been operating in Transformers and Spiderman for years. The vehicles for JLBM are actually even a little bit less complex than Universal's besides the fact that they carry two less people. They don't have the same "jumping" capabilities in addition to just rotating around. The vehicles are actually all built and have gone through lots of testing. While there is always a possibility that things can change, these vehicles should share the same reliability as their cousins at Universal (if not better without the occasionally problematic elevator in Transformers).

Hopefully I can help with some of your concerns: 1. Dave Roemer is very open about not liking the ride at WB in Australia (why is Patrick from Spongebob jumping on everyone's faces?).While there are some major similarities between the two rides, the SF version will, in the end, be a vastly different experience. 2. The animation for this ride will 100% original with the quality seen on the Universal rides. Actually the main reason that it is going into two parks at once is so that the parks can split the cost of the film. 3. The set pieces are being built by the same manufacturer and quality as the Transformers ride. 4. Also, the estimated ride time will be between 3 and 4 minutes. Some of the screens will be completely immersive at over 30ft long and mixed with special effects to create great show quality. With the vehicles having the ability to speed up, slow down, stop, move backwards, etc, there is a lot more that the designers can do with the layout. All of the above information is available online in various press releases and interviews, so I am not giving away any kind of insider information regarding the ride. More information may be released in between now and opening day, but either way, the layout, queue, and quality of the ride is top notch. I just recommend keeping an open mind, and I really think you will have an outstanding time on it.

Hey! I'm also a college student who has worked at Six Flags St. Louis for the last two years. Honestly, work experience in the industry is a huge boost. If you want to PM me, we can exchange ideas and talk about what I'm doing at least to set myself up as best as possible. Although I am majoring in Leadership & Change Management to focus on the operations part of the industry.

Just the fact that Sally's goal is to surpass the Universal rides is incredible. We'll have to see how it turns out, but things are looking very optimistic, aided by the quote below: "[John Wood] said the bar was set high by the Amazing Adventures of Super-Man ride and the Transformers: The Ride – 3D at Universal Orlando, he said. 'For the last 15 years we’ve been trying to figure out exactly how to take that to the next level,' he said." (Original Article: http://www.orlandosentinel.com/travel/attractions/theme-park-rangers-blog/os-justice-league-ride-iaapa-20141118-post.html )

Before the announcement in August and the car/animatronic unveiling at IAAPA, I don't think anyone would have believed SFSL would get such a top of the line dark ride. A lot of Guests that come to SFSL haven't been on Transformers or Spiderman, but even those who have will be blown away be this attraction next season. With Scooby being the best (according to many enthusiasts and Sally Corp) version on the Ghostblasters-type dark rides, it great to see that it is being replaced by something even better. That animatronic blew me away. Six Flags really seems to be dominating so far. Neal Thurmond was recently promoted from SFMM Director of Operations to SFFT Park President. The identification and promotion of great leaders like him is really helping to grow the company and improving the parks' quality. In other news, I love the Games-U-Ride concepts. With the popularity of games declining in the industry for the past 30 years, I think that these games could be able to help bring them back a little bit. To the TPR members who were able to try them, do you think the experience was enough for a lot of parks to really make money in a park? I can't be thankful enough for all of the great TPR coverage year after year. Keep up the great work as so many really appreciate it!

I love the revitalization of the city. The zoo is also working on unprecedented long term expansion plans including a pair of giant parking structures, restaurants, and a hotel on the old FP Hospital site with transportation over the highway. The current main parking lot would become an African savanna. St. Louis has been slow to recover economically, but it also is looking like a great recovery. I think it's an interesting coincidence the plans for this downtown park come out when the city is celebrating 250 years including a huge renovation and expansion of the Arch grounds. Back while the city was celebrating its bicentennial including the construction of the Arch, the city and Disney were working on plans to build a $40 million (almost $300 million today with inflation) indoor park downtown. I really hope it works out this time. (More information on the Disney park can be found here: http://disneyandmore.blogspot.com/2012/11/riverfront-square-walt-disney-theme.html )

^When I read that attendance number, I couldn't take anything else seriously. Even though the $70 million budget seems like a lot, it really isn't given the information that they have released. After some quick Google searches mixed with my own knowledge, here is a small cost break down based on rough estimates: -$20 million: 200ft wheel sounds like the one made by Chance that has a 177ft diameter. -$10 million: Parking infrastructure upgrades. Loosing the main parking under the train shed mixed with their plans to provide supplement parking for the Scottrade/Peabody would need a garage, which would cost at least $8 million. -$10 million: Train shed renovations. I really have no idea, but this is partially based on the $50 they already spent renovating the rest of the property. I would expect the real number to be much higher. -$10 million: Basic park infrastructure. Including utilities, pathways, etc. I think this is still very conservative for 26acres Now they have $20 million left for the fun stuff. Remember that a good sized quick service restaurant will cost $2million and bathrooms would be around $250,000 each, no to mention the shops, ticket booths, etc. I'm pretty confident in all of my estimates at least being the minimum, but correct me if I seem way off. If they don't enclose anything else under the train shed, that space will run out very quickly with restaurants and retail space alone to support 1 million people a year. However, with thousands of malls closing in the past decade and more to come, I do think that this park would be more successful than the mall atmosphere alone, if it is marketed as more of an entertainment complex with less retail emphasis. St. Louis could really benefit from this type of development, especially if most of it is climate controlled. It would be a fun place for locals to enjoy on the weekends during the winter especially. I'm sure lots of SLU students would take advantage of it, and as ^you^ mentioned, the MetroLink station will make it extremely accessible. The $70 million number also includes almost $30 million in tax credits and other subsidies. An alderman, speaking about just the $18.5, said that the number isn't totally unrealistic, but the developers can't expect to get that much for nothing. In terms of the attendance numbers, I wonder if that is the estimated for the first year or not. With no admission costs, if they get enough people to stop by for an hour or two of shopping and dining with no rides, then their number is a bit more realistic. Edit: The $20 million ferris wheel figure was based on Seattle's wheel. However, about $6-8 million was based on foundations for the pier. A $12-14 million figure is more realistic, unless they make it bigger for the full 200ft.

I've heard the same from a lot of Guests actually. Besides the crowds, they also like the more old fashioned and intimate design of the park's smaller walkways and abundance of trees.

I thought the same thing. I think the issue is that the overall theme park, more than just coaster, enthusiast community would rarely make it to SFSL if it wasn't their home park. 2004 was really when Six Flags knew that they were in huge trouble and started selling off parks. From at least that point on, park investment across the board pretty much had a sole focus of bringing Guests into the park and less of a budget for general upkeep and refurb. Yada yada yada yada recession, bankruptcy, reorganization, slow but strong growth to today. Even though there are a lot of projects going on to refresh the park, a lot of which consist of infrastructure that goes unnoticed, the park is getting a lot better. With all of these commenters who haven't been to the park or haven't been in years, it makes sense. It's a reputation that the park will have to improve slowly over the next ten years as long as things keep going down this path. Plus that site has a large population of harder-to-impress Mouseketeers.