HWFan

Check out these great links about the park and JLBM. 1. There is a great article on Theme Park Insider with some concept sketches from the ride as well as a picture of one of the large props, which instantly made me think of the close Mystery Machine encounter from Scooby. It's from September, but since I missed it at least, I figured I'd post it for others as well: http://www.themeparkinsider.com/flume/201409/4206/ 2. Paul Drabek over at Negative-G posted a great Daredevil Days TR that includes some great pics of Scooby including a special walk back inside the building after the ride closed. He also talks about some of the maintenance reasons of why Scooby's closure was almost inevitable: http://www.negative-g.com/six-flags-stlouis/2014/daredevil-daze/six-flags-st-louis-daredevil-daze-2014-12.htm 3. You can check out a pic of TPR user TNT, who gives us a lot of great ride operations insight and info, in the Negative-G trip report at the bottom of the page here: http://www.negative-g.com/six-flags-stlouis/2014/daredevil-daze/six-flags-st-louis-daredevil-daze-2014-10.htm I also wanted to address some concerns about JLBM and the park that I've seen posted. 1. I don't think that the capacity will be as bad as some fear. I believe that lines will be very long because it is a great ride and a new ride. There are a couple things that should help capacity, but we'll really have to wait until early next year to know for sure, but I'll keep you updated. Either way, with the queue being inside, it's already way better than sweating in a lot of the coaster's outdoor queues. 2. Looking at its track record, especially the very recent Scooby ride, a lot of people are worried about the ride not getting the maintenance it needs to keep the ride in great shape. With the large budget that Six Flags is spending for this ride, they are going to make sure it gets the proper upkeep budget to keep their investment from being wasted. One great thing about the ride is that with only two animatronics, there is a lot less to keep up compared to all of the little moving things in Scooby that needed constant attention. The rest is just changing projector bulbs, lights, etc. The ride system itself is designed to be very hardy compared to Scooby, thanks to Universal's high operations standards. 3. I've seen posts about people or their kids not really being interested in the Justice League. Transformers at Universal is one of my favorite rides of all time, but I've never seen or plan to see a Transformers movie. When there is a great ride, you don't necessarily have to be a fan of the IP it's based on to enjoy it. I think the ride will only become more relevant as the approximately half-dozen DC comics movies and released in the coming years. 4. There are some great and much needed refurbishment and renovation type projects going on this off season. Sometime in the next few weeks, I'll visit the park to get some pictures, take your suggestions to Dave Roemer, and see if there is any other information about the park and JLBM that I can post here. Even since August, there have been some projects that have been completely changed, moved, etc, so I don't want to post too much until plans are concrete in addition to respecting Dave Roemer's wishes with certain information.

Based on the information from your profile, you're coming from England. (I remember learning that it's not polite to say you're from the UK or something like that, so either way, I apologize if I said it wrong. You'll run into a lot of that with us Yanks). Anyway, you're going to be absolutely enamored with Holiday World. If you do any trip reports or take any pictures, make sure to post it. I especially love trip reports and reviews by people coming from other countries with different perspectives I would highly recommend Plymouth Rock Cafe for dinner when you visit. It has some of the best Thanksgiving food that I have ever had. Also, if you're into some authentic "American Mexican" food, the Alamo is something different than the normal American theme park food. If you have any questions about tips or advice, there's plenty of people on here who would be happy to answer, or Holiday World actually has a page on there website with tips for your visit: http://www.holidayworld.com/plan-your-trip/insider-tips/ Are you visiting any other parks? Visiting Holiday World will help to ensure that you enjoy your time in the colonies!

From my understanding, I thought there will be a few/couple more throughout the ride. I'm pretty sure John Woods stated the ride would be half media and half props/animatronics. Will try to find interview and listen again. Sorry...interview is with Rich Hill not John Woods. He didn't say how many animatronics but did say half media and half physical props/scenes. I was told that there will be one in the ride and one in the queue. When you have a lot of different screens (the largest being 30x14) with top notch 3D scenes, the animatronics are a lot less important.

What is the animatronic? Superman, Joker, etc.? I believe it's the Joker. There's also going to be one in the queue to inform guests how to use the guns, but I don't remember the name of the superhero. The animatronic in the queue is an original character. He will be some form of cyborg, but that's all I know.

So I'm guessing JLBFM is going to follow this exact same layout?? No. It will not. It will be more compact in its own layout, and it is expected to be ready for opening days, unless you had heard something I hadn't. Ok...cool on the layout. No, I haven't heard anything, just a guess since most "new" rides haven't been ready come opening day. I really hope it is open come April! The park closed Scooby early to make sure they would have plenty of time. Of course, there's the possibility that something could come up, delaying the opening. I was told that most of the vehicles, track, and set pieces are already completed and just waiting to be shipped and installed. I also think that the companies involved with the ride and their experience with demanding clients like Universal can only help in terms of insuring an on time opening.

So I'm guessing JLBFM is going to follow this exact same layout?? No. It will not. It will be more compact in its own layout, and it is expected to be ready for opening days, unless you had heard something I hadn't.

There was another picture on Facebook that was posted. The black wall on the right that runs parallel to the trough was the location of the lift. You can see some paint on the walls, and the little alcove is where the attendant sat. (Number 13 on the layout below)

^^ One was used for a Fright Fest stage prop this year, along with an old bumper car, and it seems like the park is going to keep a few of the boats. They were using a few of the "Fright Lights" as prizes for drawings that employees were entered into if they received a compliment at GR during FF. Most of them are basically at the end of their lifespan, so they can't be reused in a similar ride like at SFOG. Please have been posting, worried about JLBM's capacity, things like how Scooby had 22 four person boats. However, the ride actually operated with less than half of that for most of the last two seasons based on the condition of the boats. I do a lot of work with St. Louis Children's Hospital Foundation and some of the plan/design staff. My biggest hope is to get a few for that building where they can be used as benches/seats in the new building's rooftop garden that will have a lot of huge native plants. Another idea is to use it, along with a repainted bumper car or two, as a gaming station or a place to watch TV.

Sorry for the triple post, but I wanted to give some information regarding the photo above. On Tuesday, the crane came to demolish the mansion facade opening the station up to the plaza. A few big holes has be put in some of the walls. This picture is taken basically with the old station and plaza behind the photographer. This picture really only shows around a third of the space inside of the building. It's absolutely massive in there. When I was in the building over the weekend, all of the interior walls were down, but there were still a lot of places where the concrete rose and was overall very uneven, poured to suit the needs of the original ride. You can see some areas, besides the trough, where it looks like squares of concrete were cut out, all of the uneven sections had to be jack hammered and will be replaced when the concrete is poured over the trough. Fun facts, while the ride was shuttered for a couple of years before Scooby was announced, the park had plans to turn the huge space into an indoor food court or modern centralized offices for the entire park if they were unable to get the budget for a ride.

With the current timeline, it will be physically done in terms of the ride itself (finishing touches on the area might still be needed) approximately a month before opening day. Luckily once the ride is set up, there isn't supposed to be really any test & adjust type issues. However, there could be little things here and there that might need tweaked.

From the park's Twitter:

If you ask Dave about the front entrance, he will be the first to admit that it is set up much better as 1970's theme park entrance than a modern one. It was actually beautiful in serving its purpose originally. With no HH and a tram, the trams stopped perfectly in front of the ticket booths that 95% of Guests needed to stop at for tickets before heading straight to the gate. GR is no different. They were simpler times. With only two windows outside the park and two inside the park maximum to help Guests, the space is very limiting. The last Saturday of October, our busiest day of the year, GR staffing was at 150% of the building's capacity. There were four or five team members running the line at all times in addition to the two at the windows. Between running in and out of the building and having to share computers (there aren't room for any more either), anyone in line could see that the building puts limits on the staff. While the park is slowly able to renovate more areas with bigger budgets, a GR remodel would probably be the first part of the front gate area to be remodeled in any way. Until then, the operations team has been trying to find new ways to do more with what they have. I know that a lot of people have pointed out things this season like the SP process line being shorter than the SP entry line. That type of situation is becoming less and less common as time goes on and things are perfected. Others have pointed to things like certain team members maybe not being the best suited for the new machines, but with software, policy, and procedure changing sometimes from weekend to weekend during this first year mixed with the speed/glitches that are being worked on, the front gate staff has actually caught on really well. If the park was given the ability to completely blow up the front entrance and start from scratch, the ticket booths/kiosks would be on the right side as you approached the gate leaving a straight shot from lot to security to gate Until an ACME crate full of TNT shows up, the park is doing everything it can with what it has. Also, I know that there are a few smaller projects being considered to help with the congestion on a smaller scale. Disclaimer: This is a mix of experience, opinion, speculation, and project knowledge, so don't take this as anything official.

For my response to this, please see below: Think about how much money in staffing alone is required per year for the metal detectors. Do you think that Six Flags would spend that money if it really wasn't needed? Plus, take parkjunkie's comment and think about how many people would would bring potentially dangerous items into the park don't just because of the metal detector's presence. Also, a big part is the protection of the ticket booths and Guest Relations. This is one issue about the park that isn't really worth debating. As someone who used to think they were the most useless things in the park, I've completely changed my views. I fully believe that they are very important to ensure the safety of our Guests and Team Members. I know that it's hard to trust me without me giving you any specifics due to obvious reasons, but they are staying either way. Now in terms of their temporary-tent-type housing, complain away.

Actually at least since 2012, the park has been getting more and more money to help refurbish the existing structures. A lot of the work had to be done in areas or to things that most people don't really notice or see. For 2015, there are a few big projects to spruce things up. Landscaping this year was amazing in some parts while shaky in others. However, look for this to only get better in the coming years. In terms of the chains that used to be on all of the curbs around the park, too many people were tripping over them and getting hurt, leading to their demise. You can still see all of the filled in holes in the curbs in most places. The park would still really like to do this and is even looking at smaller ways to better increase the flow in that area before they can eventually (there's no time frame yet) replace everything. Especially with the technology really increasing with biometrics and Universal parks, for example, using kiosks for ticket sales, you really want to do it right. And trust me, nobody here wants to see a new GR building more than I do. I completely understand where you're coming from, but looking at what the company was dealing with just a few years ago, the budgets for things like that will (and this is in my personal opinion judging by the trends and things I've seen) slowly grow in the coming years. For example, 2013 was the biggest Fright Fest ever, completely blowing 2012 away. Then, 2014 was expanded even more. Now, using a lot of input after the last two years, 2015 will be expanded even more with a lot of the rough edges smoothed out and whole attractions ditched. There is a lot behind why Disney/Busch don't have them and we do. However, after two years, I find myself very thankful for them keeping metal detectors at the park. They may not look nice or be inconvenient, but they are in everyone's best interests.

I just got home from closing the park tonight. If terms of your suggestions, I have them all down, but I am saving them for a couple of weeks until I can get full answers and have enough time dedicated to discussing them. These last two weekends were absolutely insane in terms of the amount of people that came out and passes sold. I got to spend some good time inside the Scooby/JLBM show building. Basically all of the walls have been torn down with the entire building cleared. The trough is filled and packed with dirt up to a couple inches to the top. They'll have to pour the concrete there. I also didn't realize how much uneven concrete is in the ride from when it was built in terms of small slopes and six inch steps here and there. Once that is all gotten rid of and leveled, they'll start installing all of the new stuff. On Tuesday, a crane will come in to demolish the front mansion facade. January is when the track install starts, and most of the ride (vehicles, track, and set pieces) are already built off-site. While they don't want any pictures posted right now, I'll see if it's okay in a couple of weeks.

A lot of people probably see grown men spending hours on a forum talking about coasters or cars, especially with the level that a lot of coaster enthusiasts take it to, as dorky or something. If it makes you happy, do it. I'm not going to sit there and judge anyone. If I don't think a business caters to my needs but it is catering to the needs of others, I will stop patronizing it, but I won't post all kinds of negative things about it just because they don't offer the product I want. While I am a big fan of dark rides, I personally don't really care for the parades/shows. (Although I did enjoy watching Evolutions at SFSL during one of my breaks.) However, I think that a lot of people on this website especially probably do enjoy some of the things you don't, and I think that demeaning them is inappropriate and unnecessary. You keep going further and further from a healthy discussion about parks (the good and the bad) towards attacking the things that make certain people happy. I just honestly can't figure out why you choose to spend your time on this site with such negativity. I'm sorry but just stop. Please.

As it seems that such a lively discussion has come up regarding the park's future and marketing techniques, and because the park's management does take any constructive criticism and ideas, especially from people who have travelled all over the world to visit parks, if you have any suggestions, you can either post here or message me them. I'll tell you that right now the park is especially looking to expand Fright Fest for 2015, so if you have anything you'd like to suggest regarding FF, that is especially welcomed. Instead of just saying, "Voided Vision is boring," make sure to include why it's boring and any suggestions you have to make it better or replace it. This doesn't all have to be huge big picture changes and projects, but little things or ideas you've had about the park are more likely to show up in the park. I'll organize your ideas and bring them to Dave and our Director of Operations. I'm also pretty sure that you all focus on the "Coaster Capital" thing way more than the park does sometimes.

^When I saw the renovation of the candy kitchen building with a lot of great theming, it made me hopeful that this would be the start of a trend to better theme new and existing buildings. Now isn't Lauren (or Leah?) Koch's position something like the director of theming? Putting one of the top people in at Holiday World in that position seems to send a strong message that it's a top priority now. Maybe Paula can correct me if I'm wrong.

Now that they finished the loop, I like how they shifted the construction cam back to the right. I can't believe how fast all of the buildings in the background are going up. It'll be interesting to see the station go up because of just how big and themed it is. In keeping with everyone's comments about how they seem to be truly continuing with Will's vision, I completely agree. When I was watching the announcement video and saw the renderings of the paths and design/layout of the new area, immediately thought of some of the concept art that was released for the Thanksgiving section when it was announced in 2005. It was just cool to see the style of Will's vision for 2006 carried on by his daughter's for 2015. Thanks to the Way Back Machine internet archive website and a couple coaster sites that still have everything there from a decade ago, I was able to find some of the concept art. The more natural curves and twists of the paths rather than just a straight path with asphalt do so much in terms of theming, even if just subconsciously. I'm not trying to put down how Thanksgiving ended up in any way (especially because at least the paths are so clean). I know it was an absolutely huge undertaking for the park and showed how they were willing to invest as much as they possibly could into the park. However, with the great new emphasis on theming the park, I've always wondered if they have any plans to go back and add some of the theming that was originally planned. I believe either this image, or a similar one, was featured on the park maps for a period of time. I find this image of the planned layout for Thanksgiving to be the most interesting.

You haven't read all the reviews then. Yea. You really should read some more reviews. Most of them that I have read were Great, so I'm not sure where you're finding these "Good" reviews.

The building itself is really going to look great, and it will be even better because you will enter into a big hall like you see at world class attractions in the Disney/Universal parks. I also have some good Fright Fest news! Park management is already looking ahead to Fright Fest 2015. While the last two years have been really good (compared to some of the years in the past), the park is again looking to expand their options offered for Fright Fest. Thanks to those of you who have posted reviews and comments on here, as I have used them to help answer our Director of Operations' question regarding any suggestions for next year. Also, if you think that stopping by Guest Relations to give feedback/suggestions is pointless, just know that besides Dave Roemer personally reading through most, if not all, of the suggestions/compliments at least, our Director of Operations comes down towards the end of almost every night to ask what's the buzz (compliments, complaints, suggestions, etc) that evening.

Sally Dark Rides has a great write up on the closure of Scooby Doo that includes the original storyboards and layout of the attraction. It's really cool, and you can check it out here: http://sallycorp.com/news/one-last-visit-with-scooby-and-the-scary-swamp/

New Coaster: Thunderbird However, I'm excited for Rampage to reopen at Alabama Adventure, and I'm excited for the new Justice League dark rides at the Six Flags parks due to their high level of technology and theming.

Yeah I also thought about that, it would certainly be cool. While that would be cool, one nice thing about its placement is that the track will be physically closer to the Voyage. If the loop was centered, the track would be much higher over the ride, but instead the track that goes to enter the loop acts as a cool type of headchopper element.

Fun Fact: Our park was the original park that tested Batman Backwards. They called a bunch of the full time management and some supervisors to try it out at around 4:00am so that nobody would be able to see it from I-44. They didn't have the special backwards B&M train. They just used one of the regular ones. I'm told that it was really intense. I'm not sure what the specially designed backwards trains run differently, but I wonder if they make it less intense (even though I have absolutely zero engineering knowledge to support that thought).