PURE

^Yeah that makes perfect sense. Basically if the cables were "guarded" the cars wouldn't be able to function up and down the towers. With S&S towers, if you watch the cables, their distance from the tower structure increases and decreases depending where the car is. As far as I know, the cable is furthest from the tower where the cable is connected to the car. Sorry if I was saying people were "complaining". My take on it before I posted was that I read a couple posts of people saying they wouldn't ride drop towers again because of these 2 incidents, and I thought that was a bit drastic. SFKK was a combined mechanic and ride op failure. This ride did exactly what it was supposed to do. I think the most important thing to consider in these "cable snapping" cases is that the huge wire cables are capable of supporting more than 10 times their weight, as long as the cables are inspected and replaced as neeeded. I know an engineer for a huge designing company and she says when it comes to the GP, things are so over designed that there's no reason for cables to be snapping. The problem, therein, is trusting ride mechanics to replace and inspect the wires frequently enough to make sure they don't have problems. I think that's what companies like Intamin are depending on too...they aren't expecting cables to snap because with the load they're built to carry, there's really no reason to even consider it. I know the Knott's mechanics were very adamant on inspecting cables daily and they'd be replaced after so many cycles, and with Supreme Scream towers would be closed just for that. I still feel safe on every ride I go on. These are just 2 random incidents that are getting press time.

So basically you're saying the ride WORKED and did exactly what is was designed to do. Cables have snapped on rides before. Chain lifts have snapped, etc, etc... As long as the ride's safety system is working as designed, what's the big deal here? --Robb I agree completely. A ride malfunctions and everyone complains. A ride's safety system works as planned and everyone complains. Theme parks just can't seem to win these days. ^^I believe an S&S e-stop stops air pressure from acting on the piston, similar to the "drop" button which can lower the cart at any time. As far as I know when the e-stop is hit, everything stops, and the car slowly descends to the bottom of the tower, with air pressure keeping the fall slow. Since some of you asked how S&S towers work, I understand a little bit about S&S drop towers, so I'll share what I know. I'll be the first to admit I don't know everything about the ride, but from what I've been taught S&S's drop tower is pretty much failsafe. Unless all 4 cables snap at once, the car is going to be supported by the cables that don't snap. Here's a drawing of how the ride works, and why it's so failsafe. I'm not claiming I'm an expert just sharing what I know! Red box is the air tight piston, connected to a cable (pink) that runs down around the wheel, connected to the car (blue), up back around another wheel and connected to the piston on the other side. Air pressure direction (green) from the main air tube determines the direction of the piston. In this case, its pushing the piston down, in turn pushing the car up. There are 4 of these systems per car, hence, 4 green tubs in each tower. There is 1 direction tube, the big blue tube in the middle that determines the direction of movement. This picture below will allow you to compare the drawing with the real thing.

Wiener Looping Schwartzkopf at its finest.

Made it out to the park on Wednesday, and passed by Thomas Town and it looked great, I really like how they kept a lot of the trees *cough* KBF should take some notes *cough*. All the rides in the park were practically walk on except Tatsu, Deja Vu and X2, and everything was open except Yosemite Sam's Sierra Falls. X2 did not open till Noon, an old MM habit that I thought had died out by now... But besides that all the rides that could had 2 trains running, so it was great hardly having to wait for anything at all. Rode X2 and loved it. Loved the fire effect so much that I wish there were 2 parts with fire, and I also loved the music track during the ride. The audio for X2 really helps the overall experience of the ride. Didn't feel or see any fog at the bottom of the first drop, and didn't get any fog at the brake run (Isn't that where they said there would be fog?). I'd say the ride is running about as well as it did back in November/December with the old trains, but overall I am impressed with the new trains and the ride they provide. Unfortunately that last raven turn is still a brain shaker. We waited 1 1/2 hours for X2, but I didn't mind, my group and I were going to be waiting no matter how long it took. The new queue line features were entertaining, and the videos and music really helped time to go by fast. Love the selection of music (wish the music/video track was a bit longer though so you didn't hear the same songs 5 times while in line) and a lot of the videos of extreme tricks were awesome! Not a fan of the break.com footage, because I've always seen it as passive violence, and if the parks trying to create a family atmosphere, things like that shouldn't be easily viewable (in this case, pretty much forcibly viewable) to younger kids waiting in line who are going to check out more violent footage at break.com when they get home. Music at the line divide was really loud (I go to shows where its about that loud so I can take it, but I saw kids covering their ears) and I was bummed the huge flat screen in the station wasn't working. Would like to say I noticed dispatch times have increased dramatically and it definitly helps capacity. There were 2 1/2 to 3 minute dispatches! However some took 4 minutes, and the trains would stack, so it slowed the pace a little bit. But definitly improved, nice work Magic Mountain! We were at the loading gates when I noticed the music on one of the trains wasn't working, and decided to let the people behind us go so that we could wait for the train with the music. We wanted the full X2 experience, especially for our first ride. Then the only damper of the day happened, keep in mind the park closed at 7, and its now about 7:45. Next train with music is coming and a manager of some sort comes up to us and tells us that they are going to be sitting in the very back of the train, making my friends wait yet another train. I told them we had just waited a train because we wanted to ride with the music. She said we could just wait for the next one. I said we can't just wait for the next one because that one doesn't have the music, we'd have to wait 2 more cycles before we could even get on so we could listen to the music. She looked at me and didn't say anything. Then I asked her why they couldn't just wait 1 more train so that our group could all ride together, and then they (since I saw them just walk up and not wait at all) could get on the next one. She could obviously tell I knew what was going on, she turned around and walked away. Train pulls in, guests get out. Her and the guy she was with walk on the ride before the loading gates open, completely ignoring me and my friends. I was pretty TO'd about the situation and the utter disrespect they had for us. I walked up from behind them to the car they were sitting in and said "That's great customer service by the way, letting guests wait 2 hours for a ride, and you walking up and cutting right in front of us making us wait even longer. I'm sure Jay Thomas and Tim Burkhart would be delighted to hear about this situation. What kind of example do you think you're setting for the rest of your employees?" They were both shocked that I walked up to them and said anything, and they were both stuck in their restraints so there was nothing they could do. They both looked at each other and didn't say anything. I read both their names on their tags out loud to them and told them I'd be reporting both of them to guest services for cutting in line, and for being so rude and non-responsive. I said "Thanks for being inconsiderate" and I walked back to my seat. I got on and rode, and got back in the station to see my friends still waiting--they wanted to ride with the music too, so they waited the 2 trains. I just couldn't believe what happened. Why would they let a guest have a wonderful day like we did then top it off by doing something like that right at the end? I didn't report them because I don't care about them getting talked to, its the principal of the matter. I was trying to be polite with them and explain how we had waited just for the music, but they refused to give any sort of explanation for anything. When things like this happen with higher ups, it really puts a black cloud over all the little great things that are going on around the park, and it also comes off as being a bit shady. I was disappointed to experience firsthand that this kind of stuff still goes on. But besides this minor issue, we had a great day at the park. I really had a blast on X2, and a lot of the rides seemed to have freshly re-habbed trains which ran very well. This issue at X2 didn't ruin our day whatsoever, it was just a bit shady and it was something that I wanted to note. Both of my friends got Xtreme Play Passes because they saw I had one, and thought getting flashpasses and free parking on each trip was a great deal. They had a great time and I told them to enjoy days like this when lines are short and the weathers great, because during the summer it can get hot and the lines can get pretty ugly! It was great to visit Magic Mountain, I had truly missed it. It was a sight to see Valencia Falls running again, I always enjoyed that part of the park. Ride ops and other employees are now telling guests "Have a Magic day at Six Flags!" and it's great to hear it. Keep it up Magic Mountain!

^^^Yeah Knott's is still a good park so don't let our complaints sway how your day goes. We just whine and cry about it cause we take it for granted, and its just not the same as it was 15 years ago. But what'ya gonna do? A lot of people (locals and regular visitors alike) still like the park, as far as I know it still gets busy during the summers! They still have some good rides and the park atmosphere can be really fun, especially at night, especially for first timers. Get a funnel cake and try some boysenberry punch. Then let going 80 on Xcelerator help it settle in your stomach! Monte's still got a kick, and Perilous Plunge's drop is fun too.

It most definitely is a requirement, especially on drop towers. You're supposed to watch the entire cycle from the second it leaves the ground, until coming back down to unload. First, a cable shouldn't go 6 months or a couple years without being replaced, inspected, etc. You'd think a good ride mechanic would know that. You'd also think a ride op should know as soon as she see a cable snap, to hit the e-stop. Like someone else on here stated, it doesn't take a genius when you're an op for more than a month to know what's normal and whats not, especially on drop towers. I know some of the newest ops in certain parks work drop towers because they're pretty much faulty proof rides and they're the easiest to run. Maybe that played a factor in this girls reaction time as well.

^ The solution to getting riders off faster so 3 train operation could be efficient is simple. I'm sure there are various ways to getting the job done, but this seems so simple its a wonder MM didn't do something similar. I mean, they dropped $10,000,000 on new trains, wouldn't capacity to get those trains running be the next important thing? I don't think they would have even had to relocate the old loading gates. I am impressed with how many of the trees were saved, and how they're organizing Thomas Town. With the walls now down, I can't wait to check it out next week when I go to the park!

First I wanna say this is an awesome thread and shows the concern of locals and KBF fans who really once loved Knotts and are saddened that its becoming what it is. n7: You're right, all I can seem to make of it is capitalistic society demolishing itself from the inside. I agree with everything that's been said about the park, sad thing is these poor qualities weren't to quite this extent when I worked there (2004) but I could tell at the time that things were only going to get worse. Only thing I can add is that KBF and other types of large cooperate chains run similarly are only making things worse, in my opinion its no way for people in America to work. There's no "hope" working these types of jobs, people accept what they're doing and what they're paid and don't care to do anymore than what's absolutely required. And if you ask me its a damn shame, cause when I have a job I don't feel that way. But as time goes by I could understand some employees just saying eff it and slowly being molded and habitually trained to act like all the other bad seeds. The rub is that I feel like it'd be so damn easy to stand up and say "cut the cheap crap, NOW" if I was a higher up who actually had some sort of impact on what happens with the company and its park. Unfortunately nobody up there seems to care enough. There's just a lot of simple things they REALLY screw up on at Knotts, and the path to getting back on track seems to be getting further and further away.

I'd say Thursday. Weekends after Memorial Day the parking lot can start spilling into the overflow, Thursday should be best. In reguards to traffic if you're coming up the 5: Take the 57 north to the 210 north to the 5. Yeah, its 10-15 miles further, but you can avoid all the 5 traffic through LA. I would usually suggest passing the 57, and hopping on the 605 to the 210, but the 5 has a bunch of construction going on from Beach Blvd up to Carmenita--its ugly over there all the time no matter which day it is. A good piece of advice (especially for people with internet access on their phones) is to visit sigalert.com, they have up to the minute traffic reports and road speeds which can really help you decide which freeways to take to save you some time. Its good to hear positive things coming from guests who have gotten to visit MM recently. Thank you Magic Mountain and staff its awesome! Keep it up! In regards to X2 capacity and line organization, it seems like the only solution to higher capacity would be a station re-arrangement. Considering the parks on budget, something as simple as a bridge I think could really make a difference. Here's a rough sketch of what a little bit of re-arranging could do. (Sorry there's only 6 cars on the X2 train) It allows people at car one to exit the train faster, because that seems to be the main problem thus far-slow exiting guests. Getting those guests to get off the ride and out of the way faster might allow 3 trains to run efficiently, and really speed up that line. -James

Awesome TR! Your humor is uncanny, and the photos were awesome. Thanks for sharing, looks like you had a lot of fun! Count me in as wanting to get credits on both Looping Star and Kentucky Rumbler. As well as Starship 3000 (they had these at a local OC fair, but I never got on it and always wondered what they were like). Hot dogs 2 for $1 at a gas station? Count me out! Thanks for the photos and TR, hope that test went well too. -James

All I can say is WOW! I'm so glad Magic Mountain continues to push the boundaries when it comes to entertaining their guests for special events. An hour and a half ERT on X2 in the middle of the night sounds so gnarly! Hope you're all havin a good time out there, I'm jealous I couldn't make it out to the event! X2 definitly looks like its now in strong contention for the best ride in the park!

This post was made understanding that the new trains were NOT meant to improve the ride experience, but were installed for maintenence purposes only. I disagree. Riddlers, Batman and Scream are all pretty much in the same ballpark of smoothness. I don't think its off par to say Scream is a relatively smooth coaster (be it B&M or not), and for the park president to say that X is now as smooth as Scream, really puts a frame of reference in how improved the ride was supposed to be. From what I've heard, there is very little ride experience improvement on X, basically its riding the same as it did 6 months ago (apparently the last raven turn and last turnover are just as rough as before) and that is NOT how Tim made it sound when he made that statement. So I think it needs to be understood that someone that doesn't do as much research as all of us could hear a statement like that, and expect the ride to be smoother. Thus, the typical park goer would have been misled. I don't care because I didn't believe his comment to begin with (along with the numerous exaggerated expectations of this X2 revamp), but I can understand how that's what irks some people. I haven't ridden the ride or experienced the "improvements" firsthand, so I can't comment on those yet, but I will say this: I was really excited about getting on X2, so much that I was going to get out to the park tomorrow for opening day. But after seeing the TR's, I can more or less wait to get on this thing for another week or so, or for that matter whenever I happen to make it out to the park again.

^I've always wondered that myself. With plans for a coaster in 2009 far underway, I see this as nothing more than speculation. The ride for 2009 is probably already done being designed, pieces might have even begun the fabrication process. However, it would be awesome to see SFNE's Batman:Dark Knight come to MM in 2010. It would give the park 17 coasters, tying the coaster crown capital Cedar Point. The higher ups at WCB mentioned getting it back in the upcoming years, and following this pattern would put them on a pretty good track to retake the lead.

Well, that alone just sold me on an X2 campout ticket. Man, I'm such a tool!

I know where you're coming from but it's not supposed to be a deal. Its a privilege to get on the ride an hour before it opens and ride without any GP in the way. I just spent $125 on a pass, do I feel like dropping $50 bucks to get on X2 for an hour, certainly not. But if I wanted to get on X2 first, I think I'd suck it up and spend the money. In the scope of things, you'll get 3 or more rides right in the morning, and while everyone else rushes to X2 at 10 in the morning, you'll have a chance to go on other things with relatively smaller lines. I just think, that if it was a deal, everyone would go. And how special would it be then?

I'm not sure what the exact rule is, but what I read basically says that once a safety restraint is installed on a train, it cannot be taken off. Revolution is a 32 year old Schwarzkopf located in California (the Batman and Robin coasters were none of those) that still runs the original trains, and none of that helps its case. To me, a logical possibility behind Revolution's OTSR's is that the trains could have been given seatbelts instead of OTSR's, much like Montezuma's. However, Montezuma's has one thing that slows dispatch times, checking the seatbelts and having to click each one closed (even if there's nobody sitting in the seat) before the train launches. Now imagine doing that on Revolution, where there's 3 trains running and with that an hour line. Maybe it would have hurt capacity, so instead, they did the next best thing to keep dispatch times high and added OTSR's. From an engineers standpoint, the OTSR's were added for a reason, and that reason is still around today because the ride is the same as it was 30 years ago. Taking them off because guests find them uncomfortable doesn't make sense, and really isn't a safe idea. I'm sure there's a solution, but I'm sure it's not cheap, and to repeat what others have said, there are more important things the park needs to spend money on if they want to continue turning the park around.

Well, sir, there's nothing on earth Like a genuine, Bona fide, Electrified, Six-car Monorail! What'd I say? Monorail! That's right! Monorail! I hear those things are awfully loud... ...It glides as softly as a cloud. Is there a chance the track could bend?... ...Not on your life, my Hindu friend. What about us brain-dead slobs?.. ...You'll be given cushy jobs. Were you sent here by the devil?... ...No, good sir, I'm on the level. The advertisement practically writes itself! Is that from the Simpsons? It is. And actually, after "That's right, Monorail!", the city starts chanting "monorail...monorail...monorail...monorail" and then the verse comes in. So funny. Revolution will always have OTSR's because it installed them to begin with. OSHA rules say that once a ride has the restraints, they are not allowed to take them off. So as long as Montezuma's never puts them on, it'll never have them. As for Revolution, it will always have OTSR's.

Ever since I heard that higher ups from parks read these sites, I thought this was kind of a bad place for them to look for reviews. Especially because its a website open to people who's hobby it is to strategically inspect the entire ride for errors in order to figure out how it works. I think they're taking too much accountability into all of our complaints and opinions. I didn't sign on to this website with the intent for the parks to read and react to it, I come here to find out the latest news and to talk about it with people who are knowledgeable about those subjects.

I'm not saying you're wrong, and I'm not saying it doesn't happen. I'm not saying things haven't changed in the past 2 months since I've been there, and maybe I'm just unlucky on every visit I've made to MM since Scream opened. So I'm saying this with as much sincerity and honesty possible (because when I post it often rubs the wrong way)... I've never seen a train dispatch to lift while the one ahead of it is in the cobra roll, whether its 2 or 3 train operation. And I do pay attention to those kinds of things. Although it would be awesome to be there on the days it happens. I will say I've seen it consistently dispatch after the block brakes, and that's on days when things are moving right along, its very nice to be at the park on those days. I'm not saying I don't believe it happens or that I don't believe you, I'm just saying it would be nice to be at the park on those days when the ride is operating running that efficient. Also, there's a new X2 video up on the Magic Mountain homepage. Looks to be the promo video, one of the best promo videos I've ever seen for a ride. Awesome! Check it out! www.sixflags.com/magicMountain/index.aspx

That's awesome to hear, lets hope they keep it up during the summer months, when it really counts. Also good to hear that about Scream. I have heard these are the easiest rides to maintain that type of operation (being as they are open stations and trains with easy sit down, one restraint check design), it would be nice to see the same type of operations begin to spread to the rest of the rides around the park. For example, I think during the peak of the summer, there should be 3 train Goliath and Riddlers and 2 train Batman operation with no stacking. It's hard to do, but I think it would be great for the park to shoot for that, and it would also be very impressive. Especially because those are some of the more popular rides in the park. Glad to hear operations are improving, and I hope it improves and stays that way for years to come.

I know what you mean and with the past of MM's problems, when the previous plans for X2 got scrapped I was a little leery that they were having problems. However, I don't think the ride could possibly be any worse than it was when it closed. The ride is good, and it stands up on its own already, these additions are a way for the park to get away from the 'this ride is good enough, it doesn't need anything added' attitude. Although I guess you can't call it theming per se, they are doing things to enhance the ride beyond just being a coaster, and for that I applaud them. For example, I am digging the flame throwers over the bottom of the first drop when you're on your back. To me that sounds freakin' awesome. Unlike anything on any other coaster, much less a 4D. And in the article it says they're still shooting to still get fog and sound, which will add to the ride as well. As for the operations of the rides, I think they can only do so much to inform the guests before they board the ride. Like mentioned earlier, parks like Disney and Universal have guests that are just as dumb, and they seem to dispatch rides very well. In regards to Tatsu, when the ride is stacking or delayed I often see the ride understaffed. There are sometimes only 2 restraint checkers per side, per train, and the outside ops (the one on the side of the guest entrances) have to dispatch the train from the back of the station. So often, there is 1 op checking restraints on the left side of the train, and 1 on the right, who has to run back to the panel to make sure all cars are clear, and then has to run back to check the row of seats if they aren't. This alone causes a delay of the ride. On top of that the same ride op has to deal with Flashpasses. There's just too much to do, and not enough people to do it efficiently. When this is going on, you really can't blame the ride ops, you blame the ones who aren't giving the ride proper staffing to run efficiently. On SB at Knotts which is inverted and much easier to load, we would have 4 ops, some times 6, checking the train at once to avoid blocking (2 for the first two rows, 2 for the next 3, and 2 for the last 3). I would think at least this many ops is necessary to avoid blocking on a flyer. That said, when the ride is properly staffed and its still delaying or stacking, I'd say a majority of the time I'd blame the ride operators who are taking their sweet time, or who are off in their own mind instead of preparing the guests and themselves to load and dispatch the next train. At rides like Space Mountain at Disneyland, the ops are constantly talking to eachother or guests, rushing them on and off the trains as quickly as possible, bottom line, they know their job and what they must do, and they get it done. Back in the mid nineties when I started getting on the bigger rides, I remember seeing Viper dispatch every 45 seconds to a minute, with 3 trains on the ride, never stacking. Those ops ran around to get the ride running like that, something I don't see happen at MM anymore.

Meh, I'm against the DJ thing, they had one at CP when I went, and the place was packed. Still, it didn't do much for me, or seem to do much for the crowd that was waiting in the sunny 3 hour line. I don't think it has to do with what type of music they're playing at all. I'm glad the ride has new trains and I hope they help the ride run more consistently with a better capacity. I will be happy if that's all we get, because the ride will at least be improved. However, if things end up going sour and the park doesn't have the effects they marketed, I will kind of be disappointed that they didn't happen. Partly because they said they would and they didn't follow through.

I have to say I really don't get the decision making processes of Magic Mountain or their explanations behind them. They have to charge a buck for lockers to 'offset that cost' (I don’t mind, I’m just saying), they think tunnels, fog and lights are too expensive and are removed from the project, and now they're testing balls of fire that have to be just as expensive to install, and are going to be a constant running cost each day. I'm not sure if train 3 has been tested yet either, I think its either done being put together or its in the last stages. All this on a ride they already dumped millions in for new trains, and it’s all being done in the last month before the ride opens. I’m not business major (yet), but this just doesn’t seem like the way I’d have things running if I was calling the shots. Are those pictures on Screamscape recent? It looks like they were testing the fire on the old trains.

Very nice photos, haven't seen such a complete look of Knott's in a long time! Its very sad what has become of Ghost Town, because although it could be worse, it used to be much better. Thing is, its probably only going to get worse. Back when I used to have a pass I carved my name in the sand wall next to Indian Trails with a bunch of friends and used to sit on that train you mentioned (that I don't believe ever ran in the park) ever since I can remember; the park used to be so nostalgic. That's the kind of stuff I hope they always leave alone no matter how many coasters they add. Too bad about Ghostrider too, did you see the sign out on the front of the station? "Best in the West." That's because it used to be. Thanks for sharing your trip!

^But according to the poll the majority says they think they're "great." And I understand your marketing aspect, but leaving that out of the picture, not having a floor or "car" that you're sitting in really helps you feel the elements. I'm not saying that's how it is for everyone, that's just how it is for me when I ride. In my opinion on floorless coasters, view or not, the back seat is my favorite place to ride. But the front is also awesome, especially on Scream, from top of the lift to the break run, its one of the better floorless coasters I've been on.