SFA Regular

I will say that a enough people from the Washington D.C. area come go to Kings Dominion, but the majority of them still go to Six Flags America. The busiest days for the park are Memorial Day and 4th of July. Kings Dominion also makes has a large amount of people that come there on those days, but Six Flags America still pulls in a majority of people from Baltimore and Washington DC. Kings Dominion attends to get more people deeper in the Virginia area and people traveling on I-95.

I'm happy to hear that some people agree with my idea of letting a certain amount of people in the station at a time. I do think it would help a big deal on the busy weekends. I have found that people waiting in line for Superman can be the worst. Another thing that holds up the line is when people get to the end of the queue in the station and stop right there before they get to the line rows. This is why I think they need a new system. Again, security in the ride stations all day would help keep things in proper order and lines moving quickly. This park needs better corporate help. The only way I see it improving is if Cedar Fair takes over. We lose more and more people to Kings Dominion every year. Even I'm going to Kings Dominion more because their rides work, lines move fast and its fun. I still like Six Flags America but there are some things that need to improve such as ride up-keep and newer attractions. If Thomas Land was the first step then I will continue to stick with the park, but we need a new coaster.

I agree with you, my friend. At times there are misunderstandings about placement in line. At times people have gotten kicked out when, they really didn't but infront of anybody. The line gets crazy for some rides when you get up to the station and stand in place for the seat you want. Again, security inside the ride stations all day would surely keep things in order. Here is another sweet idea I had in mind. They could do the same thing they did for the (Devils Flight) on Final Destination 3 and Flight of Fear. On Final Destination 3, they only let the next group of people to fill up the train in the station, rather than letting a dump load of people just fill up the row lines. Just letting 32 people in the station to fill up the train would keep things flowing evenly on busy days like Saturday and Sundays.

I can answer that for you. A lot of the people that came to the park were addicted to thrill rides which is something the park got every year. I still think that (Kieran Burke) had a plan set up for a lot of the smaller parks before he was removed as CEO. I believe we would have gotten a new coaster by either 2007 or 2008. But whatever plans he had, were canceled when the new corporate management came in. So when people found out that they were going to stop adding thrill rides, people stopped coming to Six Flags America. Kings Dominion kept improving and offering things that Six Flags did not offer. The (Twilight Sale) offers $31.00 for a single day admission if you come after 4 pm. Six Flags does not do this. Also, Six Flags requires you to put your stuff in lockers, while Kings Dominion just puts it on the other side of the station for you. And last but not least, bigger people can fit on the rides at Kings Dominion, while at Six Flags, a lot of bigger people get turned down do to the tight restraint systems. I could go on forever about why people stopped coming to Six Flags America, but lets save that for the Six Flags America (Thread). Cedar Fair could easily turn Six Flags America into a good park again. It's very close to Washington D.C. and Baltimore. They need to advertise more and provide shuttle buses for a lot of the people at the hotels in Washington DC, Bethesda, and National Harbor.

Good answer (Nitro). I figured the same thing when I first saw Two-Face. One thing that needs to be improved is security at the rides. I miss the days when they sat up in the chairs inside the ride stations. This cut back on line jumping, which is something I see at the park too much. Instead security just walks around the park all day. They need more security to stay at the rides and make sure everything is followed according to park standards.

I have also thought about SFA closing if the merge happened, but here is what I thought about. They could do that but it would be stupid. Just think, Six Flags America is very close to Washington DC, Baltimore and Annapolis. Not to mention the National Harbor area that attracts tourist, and the people in Virginia that live across from Woodrow Wilson Bridge. Would Cedar really want to give up all those people? Just think about that. As for Kings Dominion, they get a lot of people driving on I-95. Yes, I know a lot of people from all over go there, but they don't do it as often. More people within the D.C. and Baltimore area more likely to stop at SFA do to it being closer. Thats a very easy advantage to draw people in, rather than having them drive all the way up to Kings Dominion.

People still don't understand how this can work. Apollo could get the company the same way that (Dan Snyder) did against (Kieran Burke). If they offer stock holders enough money, and a better plan than what the current management is doing, then they will sell. In my opinion the company is still up for grabs if you like at it that way. Originally (Stark Investments) plan did not include the current corporate management staying, but they decided to change it. But that's another conversation altogether, so I won't get into it. Back on topic. I think they could have made it's own little section. I would have rather them ran a complete loop for the park and install it in a new area. Again, how does Thomas The Tank Engine fit in with Gotham City??? Same thing with Two-Face. I don't understand why they put it over in South West Territory when it should have been in Gotham City.

I wouldn't say the park is a complete crap hole. It has it's good and bad's. Best thing that would be good for this place is rehabbing a lot of our thrill roller coasters. I won't get into a whole conversation about that. But what we all need to be looking at is the possible merge, as discussed before in this thread. The vote for Apollo's buy out for Cedar Fair is coming up in a week. If they get the company, is there next step to merge Cedar with Six Flags? In the last conference call, Mark Shapiro did say some good things to keep people interested in Six Flags Park's future, but to really make the parks a true fun filled experience you need money, that the company does not have. All they have been doing is ride revamps. I'm still waiting for them to Put (Jokers Jinx) and (Poltergeist) in indoor buildings and give them better themes, but it hasn't been mentioned. You could do so much with those rides inside, rather than trying add theme to an outdoor ride like Medusa and Superman. Six Flags needs a partner to help them out with that kind of stuff.

I agree with (KDCoatserfan). As Six Flags continues to lose attractions and replace them with nothing, Kings Dominion continues to get better and better every year. As for 2011, those plans could change if the merge happens between Six Flags Inc and Cedar Fair, as we were discussing in the (Six Flags Bankruptcy) thread. The vote for a buy out of Apollo management is coming up next week on April 8th. If Creditors vote and Apollo gets Cedar Fair, they probably will merge sometime before the 2010 season is done. So plans for 2011 could change if this happens. But back on topic. Thomas Town was put in between Superman and Joker's Jinx. I plan on going to the park next weekend, but I can imagine how much noise that people are going to hear from Joker going through its cycle. Could they have picked another location to install the new theme area??? Not only that but it doesn't match the theme of Gotham City. That land could have easily been used for some flat rides and possibly a new coaster by itself. Any thoughts?

I have to agree with you on that one. Cedar is still building big rides and Six Flags majority customers are thrill seekers. I don't mind the Planet Snoopy theme at all. I think it was cool for Cedar to install it inside Kings Dominion, and I can't wait to see it this summer. I wonder how the season passes are going to change? Will they start doing three kings of passes, where 1 just gets you into that park, the other gets you into all the parks, and then the 3rd one is like a V.I.P treatment?

One thing that has been floating in my mind, is what Cedar Fair would do with the Six Flags properties they decide to keep? Will they keep the Warner Bros theme, will they start random themes, or will each former Six Flags park have it's own theme? For example, with Cedar Fair's Kings Dominion park having Premier launch ride (Flight of Fear), would Cedar be willing to put both Jokers Jinx and Poltergeist inside enclosed buildings for alien themes? A good idea I had in mind was for Cedar to start a Sonic the Hedgehog ride franchise. If you think it sounds funny then keep listening. In the video game "Sonic Heroes" there is a stage called (Mystic Mansion). That theme could be used for a indoor family/thrill ride. It would have to be much darker and suspenseful, but with enough work, it could become a popular ride.I'm thinking of a half indoor/outdoor coaster. If you don't like that then there is a cool idea I had for the (Kings Solomon's Mine) stories. I'm just trying to think on what Cedar would do if they acquired the Six Flags properties and dropped the Warner Bros theme. Any ideas?

I agree with (Jew) on that one. Plus Cedar would probably sell some of the parks to other companies. They would keep the main ones like Great Adventure, Over Georgia, Over Texas, Great America, St Louis and Magic Mountain. I'm still going with them keeping Six Flags America because its close to Washington D.C. so you get their crowd, Maryland, Baltimore, and Annapolis. If Cedar improved on the park they could also drag in more people on Route 301. Let's not forget that National Harbor is becoming a popular tourist area, so they could pull in a lot of people from that place with shuttle buses. Again we have until April 8th for the vote on Apollo and Cedar Fair. If the vote is successful for the buy out then, we know their next step is Six Flags Inc. A lot of things will change including season pass, park hours, events, camps, company pic-nics, and holidays. Under a Cedar Fair management most of the things I just mentioned would increase. Cedar would set up better deals in order to get more people coming to the parks. So basically as parks improve a weekend for a Six Flags park would be crowded with people. Believe me, they are going to do something to get a lot of these parks back on their game.

Just to add something, I don't think it's in his power. It's in the power of the majority shareholders. If a huge equity decides that the merge is a good thing they are going to vote for it. I feel the same thing is going to happen, just like it did when Dan Snyder win the proxy battle over the former SFI CEO. Shareholders sold him their shares and he got control of the company. The same thing can happen with the current management. The GM of SFNE is speaking on terms for himself. Like most corporate take overs; the new management always appoints their own staff. So its very likely for most of the park staff to loose their jobs if Cedar Fair gets merged with Six Flags. The same thing happened when Dan Snyder took control.

I do remember Hall Manor which they did not charge for. That was another attraction that was taken out do to Shapiro's family friendly idea. It's one thing to be family friendly with the newer attractions but why not just let whats already there, be there? To make the SFA story short, we lost our main haunted attractions that attracted people, do to Shapiro's family friendly Fright Fest idea. I thought Fright Fest at most of the Six Flags parks were fine the way they were, but now they are less exciting. But back on topic. Many people that I have spoken to think that a merge will occur possibly by the end of summer or September. This bankruptcy case has been the most frequent news for Six Flags Inc in a while.

Good point that you make. If I'm correct all the Brutal Planets were removed from Six Flags parks when Shapiro did his tour in the winter of 2005. Well at least the on here at SFA was taken out. Do you think that weakened a lot of the Fright Fest, by making them too family friendly? Here is a small update on whats going on in the bankruptcy case. http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D9EF7C5G0.htm

I don't see what your saying. Kings Dominion's Haunted events were free with park admission. They had like eight or nine haunted house and they were all good. Six Flags on the other hand charges you tickets for their haunted attractions. But I see part if what you are saying. You are saying that both managements are crappy. I would be willing to take Cedar Fair's not so good management than Six Flag's not so good management. Cedar Fair, I respect because they are willing to spend money in order to make it. Dominator was a success for Kings Dominion and now Intimidator is also going to make the park even better. Six Flags keeps getting rid of their big rides and replacing them with smaller ones. Now let me ask you, would you have gotten rid of Batman and Robin: The Chiller for Dark Knight indoor coaster?

I agree with Larry. That's the information I have been going on. This is why I say its inevitable for another corporate take over. When Avenue Capital Management released the information on the weird Dick Clark Productions and Six Flags deals, I knew the company had set itself up for failure, yet again. Lets keep this topic going. We all have good ideas. What's everyone's take on Cedar Fair improving Six Flags Fright Fest.

I would rather have the rides work, than for Six Flags to re-theme them. Would you rather Six Flags also handle the maintenance to the Cedar Fair parks? I'm almost willing to put money that the rides would start experiencing more delays than what people there are use to seeing. But I like how this conversation is going. We all have different thoughts and opinions on what may happen if Apollo gets Cedar Fair. I enjoy talking with all of you. Now, as for the real-estate comment that was made; are you saying that the company would benefit selling the parks land for real-estate? Or did you mean, sell some of the extra land it has to build houses and still keep the park? I'm confused. But with the park doing pretty good in this tough economy, I think it would be a bad move for them to close it down. They could make more money, selling it to another company. And to add another thing, that area does not need anymore houses. P.G. County has enough homes than what people can afford right now. Lets take a break from rehabs and talk about Fright Fest. How many of you think that Cedar Fair parks Halloween attractions are better than the ones that Six Flags has set up right now? I personally would like to see Six Flags haunted attractions become scarier like Kings Dominion and Kings Island. Those haunted houses were a success. Even though they had to close down Flight of Fear in order to do Alien: Outpost; it was still cool. I will support my statement, that the current management of Six Flags, has made the Fright Fest attractions too family friendly. I miss the old Fright Fest where everything was scary.

Today I noticed something very odd. The premium pass upgrade is now going to cost be $24.99. The previous years, it only cost me $19.99. So now I am paying $74.98 for a premium pass. The upgrades you get with the pass are no different then the upgrades from the previous years. This is why I am questioning the current management. Like I mentioned before, I think they should introduce a perk where Premium Pass members can enter the park 30 minutes before the park opens and then granted ETR after the park closes. Here is the link to the price for how much its going to cost me for Premium Pass at Six Flags America. http://www.sixflags.com/america/tickets/SeasonPass.aspx This is why I think Cedar could manage the parks better. Their prices are reasonable for what they are giving you. That and for Kings Dominion, they do a Twilight discount for single day tickets. If you come after 4:00 p.m. its only like 30 dollars for a ticket. These are little perks that could really help Six Flags parks.

Over all I just want a better corporate management.

You all are looking at it the wrong way. This is how its going to work. Cedar Fair's management has been much more successful than Six Flags. If there is a merger, its inevitable that Apollo will let Cedar Fair's management stay and Six Flags management will get the boot. Based on the odd licensing agreement that Dan Snyder did with Six Flags and Dick Clark; would you want that management to be hanging around. I'm not attacking the management, I'm just providing public information and opinions that were given by Avenue Capital Management. Here is my opinion on why the current management is odd to have running the company. The company was acquired by Washington Redskins owner, Daniel Snyder, when he won a proxy battle over the former CEO of Six Flags. Based on his background, he does not have experience in theme parks. His company that got him started was Snyder Communications, and in 1999 he bought the Washington Redskins. When he bought Six Flags he did not make himself the owner. Instead he makes Mark Shapiro the CEO. Shortly after that, he buys Dick and Clark Productions Inc and Johhny Rockets. None of the things he buys has anything to do with theme parks. I would want my owner to have a good knowledge in theme parks. Atleast the people from Premier Parks that took over Six Flags Inc had experience in theme parks. Again, I am basing my opinion on the public information about the current management. Even with the bankruptcy being a factor; I have not seen anything monumental put into works with the current management of Six Flags. Cedar Fair puts together monumental projects and get monumental crowds. This is why I say their management would give Six Flags the boot.

Yes, that may be so, but look at parks that they currently own. Kings Dominion and Kings Island are still doing good in my opinion. I went to Kings Dominion's Halloween nights, and it was a true success. They had like eight or nine haunted houses and they were all free. The park was packed, but the long lines seemed to move pretty quickly. Rides operate very good and park staff is still friendly. Believe me, I thought the same thing when they first bought the Paramount's parks. I thought, a lot of things would change, and the park would not be as great. After visiting so many times, I heard a lot of good things from park staff and how they were trying their hardest to keep things running just like Paramount's did. From what I have seen, they have done a good job. One thing I did like about Cedar Fair is that they stopped Flight of Fear from being permanently shut down and moved to Canada's Wonderland. That was a good move on the management's part because, its a popular ride and people still love it. For its age, they seem to do a good job keeping the thing running smoothly, and operating just as good if not better than the rest of the Premier Launch rides. My question to you all is why Six Flags does not do this. Why couldn't the new management work with Batman and Robin: The Chiller. A lot of people still miss that ride and are upset that they removed it for Dark Knight. They did the same thing for Iron Eagle and Two-Face at Six Flags America. Both very good rides but the companies new plan did not involve fixing the rides or replacing them with smaller rides. Cedar Fair, from what I have seen will make the effort to keep rides up and running. If they don't keep them they replace them with something els.

I have to say that I disagree. Everything that I have been telling people for the longest time has happened. When Dan Snyder first bought the company I knew things were going down the hole. Yes the company was in debt, but the new management he put in did not give people too many reasons to continue to visit the parks. So then I predicted that a company will come in and try and gain Six Flags back, and now look at it. Bondholders are fighting for the company. I don't think it was a very good move to stop building thrill rides. Most of the Six Flags goers were thrill seekers. They could have easily just built smaller thrill rides, rather than switching to an all family theme. The only big surprise that this current management has been promising us is 2011 for the 50th year anniversary. I have been crossing my fingers that it will be new coasters for all of the parks. But something tells me that it may not be as a great as we all think. Again, it hasn't happened yet, so I still have my fingers crossed for 2011. As for the Cedar Fair management. What I predict is that Apollo will make Cedar Fair an offer that they can't refuse. Plus with Cedar being in debt, what other choice do they have? Next, Apollo will also make Six Flags the same deal and claim that merging the two companies will improve the parks. Dan Snyder, Six Flags owner, is not present at any of the bankruptcy meetings. Reason why is because Avenue Capital Management, figured out that he has taken resources from Six Flags Inc and manipulated the licensing deals that the board of directory made with Dick Clark Productions to make himself richer. This was all public information that Avenue Capital, posted. Once it gets down to that, it won't be hard for Apollo to gain control of Six Flags Inc. Currently, Jeffy Speed, the Six Flags CFO is fighting the battle. I really want to hear Dan Snyder's reason for the licensing deals that were made with Six Flags Inc and Dick Clark Productions. Based on Avenue Capital Management, that's where things started to look weird.

I would rather Cedar Fair rehab the coasters. Six Flags is not likely to rehab the coasters in the smaller parks like Jokers Jinx and Poltergeist. Cedar Fair would be more likely to do it because they are all about thrill and ride performance. But here is my prediction on what the Cedar Fair management would do if they acquired the Six Flags properties. They would do just like Mark Shapiro did and tour all of the parks. They would look at every aspect of it and make a decision on whats worth keeping and what the park needs. For example, if a ride is lacking speed, they would do the maintenance work and buy the parts to get it working in fine order again. They probably would have done this for Batman and Robin: The Chiller. As for the fall season, I think Cedar Fair could also spice the life in that area. When touring the parks, their managers could easily map out areas where haunted houses would be work. The season pass may change a bit. I could see them offering a VIP pass that allows holders to enter the park early and also grants them extended ride time when the park closes. I've always thought that the Premium Pass should have done that but they never introduced that benefit. Their will be a lot of improvements under Cedar Fair, in my opinion. Any thoughts?

I agree with you on letting them rehab a lot of Six Flags older rides. Only thing I may not agree on is it being a monopoly. Correct me if I'm wrong but would they being trying to take over if it were going to be a Monopoly? They must have thought it threw a while before putting forth a merge if they get Cedar Fair. But other than that, a lot of the rides could be rehabbed under Cedar Fair's management. For example, Jokers Jinx at Six Flags America and Poltergeist at Six Flags Fiesta Texas. If the Warner Bros agreement is dropped, then I could see them giving it the same kind of theme that (Flight of Fear) has and putting both those rides inside. The rides don't really need rehab, but its a good way to make them popular again. I just hope that if the Warner Bros theme gets dropped, then the rides will take on a new theme. For example, Dark Knight indoor coaster could take on a haunted house theme. I take it that whats you meant when you said rehab older rides?