CoryPa77

I think a lot of people will agree that a taller, faster and longer doesn't necessarily mean better. SROS wasn't as big as MF when it opened, yet there's a huge number of people that prefer it to MF. I prefer the Raven at Holiday World to a lot of other larger rides and Manta at Sea World is a better ride than Tatsu in my opinion. In my opinion, MF has no airtime and this ride at least looks like it'll have some, so that's an improvement. Another thing, according to Intamin, MF's lift is 308'. So technically this ride is only 3 feet shorter than that. However, I've heard this ride is actually going to be 307', but for marketing purposes they decided to announce 305'...

My only problem with the Intamin OTSRs is they bash my head pretty bad and it makes for an uncomfortable ride. I've tried them in the front, back, and it never fails. I'm only 5'7" so I know taller people won't have this problem, but unless Intamin suddenly found a way to make their transitions much smoother then I'm thinking it's going to be a head banger for me. Like someone else said, look what a difference it made once they removed from harnesses on FOF as far as ride improvement. Other than that, I think it looks great and I think the layout is much improved over MF. I love the turn following the first drop and if this ride has low lighting at night then it could be insane.

It's looking like Cedar Fair/Kings Dominion did a pretty good job with the "theme" and name of this ride since I actually see news headlines for it showing up on sports websites even!

I was there for a little bit on both Friday and Saturday nights and the wait times were about 30 minutes on average. Although on Friday it was down to about 5 minutes by 9:40 or so. The more I ride Manta, the more I like it. Maybe it's all the night rides I've been getting lately, but the ride seems a tad faster now than early on. It could have broken in, or maybe they're using a different combo of wheels now, I'm not really sure. Anyway, I think it's close to my favorite ride in Orlando. I'm really surprised at how well it turned out given that I wasn't a big fan of flyers before. The public all seems to rave about the ride and I can't believe the number of people that just stand around, watch it and take photos. Sea World did an awesome job with the placement of the ride.

The only rides that were ever leased were before Premier bought the park in '97 and that was the Giant Wheel, the Quake and maybe a few other rides. This was done because they had a lease deal with Vekoma back in the early goings of the park. Chang was not leased though, it was a big deal for them to round up $12 million for it. Premier Parks does not exist anymore, they assumed the Six Flags name in 2000. My understanding is this is still one of the few profitable parks in the whole chain. I think there are other parks in the chain that they've dumped millions into and aren't getting the returns they hoped. They haven't dumped that much in SFKK and they've still pulled nearly a million every year anyway. Well, that number has probably dropped some, but everybody's numbers have dropped lately.

^On the cable lift coasters, it is something similar to this, although with Intamin it appears they have two disc magnets that are turning with a copper rod in the middle which is what lifts the anti-roll backs. These two disc magnets are attached to a wheel that runs up the same track (I-beam) that the catch wagon does for the lift. On Intamin's chain lift rides (which I guess don't really exist anymore) like Superman:Ride of Steel, there is an actual fin that runs up the track next to the rollback teeth and the bottom of the train has a rod with magnets on it that straddle this fin and that's what generates the resistive force to lift the dogs. I need to see the Everest video, but I think their way is a little different. I know Vekoma had some unique way of doing it for their SLCs and I'm not sure if this is the same or not.

^True, and that's probably one of the best ideas they could do if they were to try and switch trains on it. If it's actually possible, I'm surprised some park out there hasn't tried it already though.

Generally speaking it's still the same type of system, there are teeth on the lift and a dog on the bottom of the train. As long as the train is moving forward the dog will drag over the teeth and only allow for one way movement. What Intamin has done with their lift systems (chain and cable) is something similar to their eddy current brakes. Essentially the dog is balanced on some fulcrum that the front end (off center from the roll back strip) is being pushed downwards (by the resistive force of the eddy current brake) and that in turn lifts the chain dog upwards so you don't get the click-clack noise you normally get on coasters. Just like with their brakes, the resistive force is proportional to the speed at which the train is traveling so if the train begins to slow it will lose that force and the chain dog will fall down into the teeth of the rollback system preventing the train from traveling backwards. Every once in a while rides like Millennium Force will be traveling slower than normal up the lift and you can hear the loud click-clack of the dogs because not enough of a magnetic field is being induced to hold the dog up. If you've heard Millennium Force's anti-rollback system you'll know that it's LOUD too! You can sort of hear what I'm talking about in the first few seconds of this video as the train slows down on the lift.

I've often wondered how feasible it would be to replace B&M stand-up trains with B&M floorless trains since the floorless trains are a little higher off the track and I would guess they might have a similar CG to the stand-up trains. It could be more of a cost-benefit things for parks as in why spend $2 million on new trains that you're not going to be able to market that well to the public. I think that's been one of Busch's biggest problems with getting MF trains on Gwazi - that's what I've heard at least - that they can't seem to justify spending the money on something they don't feel like will benefit them at the gate.

If it really is only 380' of track on-site, then at 45 degrees that would make for roughly a 270' lift. So, in order for the lift to be, oh say 307' - then you would need about 435' of 45 degree track. You don't usually see Intamin stations very high off the ground either, so I'm thinking it will start at close to ground level.

I was trying to point out earlier that there was a line that extended from the former Hellevator location through the Ferris Wheel and Chang where they could build higher. The west runway runs parallel to Crittenden Dr. and Chang is not in that path. Airplanes are not flying directly over Chang, they may appear to, but they're not. Look for yourself on Google Maps. All I'm saying is that if they're going to be building anything 150' then it's going to have to be somewhere in that line I mentioned above and not anywhere near Twisted Twins, Mile High, etc...

They could have made a higher hill on Twisted Twins, it would have just been a different layout. In that section of the park, the highest hill they could have built was 70'-80' which is why it ended up that way. There are no rides in the Twisted Twins, Thunder Run, Mile High Falls section that are over 100' high because of the West runway approach.

I was told specifically by Larry Bill that 72' was the highest Twisted Twins could have been. He told me that CCI had to go through pretty elaborate lengths designing that ride including getting blueprints for the runway at the airport, etc... I'm pretty sure the old management (Ed Hart, Ron Berni) had originally asked for about a 100' high ride from CCI and ended up with 72'. The runway extension should make no difference on the height limitations in that part of the park. By the way, UPS cancelled their Airbus orders for the A380.

Keep in mind too that the park originally wanted both Twisted Twins and even Mile High Falls higher than they ended up, but they were very limited by the proximity of the airport. There was basically only one "high" section in the whole park than runs from the old Hellevator location, Skycoaster, Ferris Wheel and Chang.

I'm guessing these songs/artists are owned by either Universal or one of their labels (Interscope, Geffen, etc...) and that's how they came up with them?

I thought this year was the roughest rides i've had on it and that's coming from someone who has never found it any more rough than your typical wooden coaster. In fact, my rides on Hades I found to be far rougher back in '07 than any on the Voyage. Still to me, nothing else out there compares to the overall out of control experience that the Voyage gives me. To me it's what a wooden coaster was meant to do, provide an out of control experience that makes you want to hang on for dear life. Personally, I think holding on tightly like some on here suggest makes the ride more uncomfortable than riding loose cause you have that much more of the vibrations getting transferred to you. Voyage, to me, is like playing football kind of, you get beat up some (with pads), but it's fun.

CCI was doing some odd things around then, for example a lot of their rides had strong laterals and I had heard a rumor once that the lack of banking meant they only had to use one ledger (6x12 piece of wood) throughout these turns instead of what's called a "y-ledger" which would be two pieces of wood. The ledgers are the most expensive individual pieces of wood on the ride and by only using half of what they needed they could then cut costs. Now, I'm sure the y-ledgers didn't considerably cut back on costs, but it was one of many things going on to get the costs of their rides way down. So, perhaps the un-banked turns on CCI's weren't so much a thrill factor, but more of a "keep costs down" thing... Twisted Sisters (Twins) didn't have a single y-ledger on the whole ride is what reminded me of this. Thunder Run doesn't have a second train. They used to have footers for a transfer track in the ground next to the brake run, but I'm not sure if they've removed them or covered them up.

Yeah, in Twisted Twins' opening year ('98) they actually gave a pretty intense ride in the back seats. The first drop had some crazy ejector air and both of the helices were fairly intense too. I think the problem was that over the years, SF failed to properly maintain the rides and they fell into a poor condition. When Twisted Twins opened, it was during a transition time at KK and I think that contributed to the poor marketing. They actually changed to a Six Flags in the middle of a season and there was more hoopla about that than the new coaster opening. I haven't been there in years now, but I've always thought Thunder Run gave a great ride and Chang wasn't too bad for a standup. Back years ago, Thunder Run was even going to have a tunnel put some where along the back stretch of the ride, but that never came to be. Along about 1997 or 1998, the park was in a great position to expand and be a major competitor in the midwest. They were in line for about an additional 40 acres (behind Chang and the parking lot out in front of Chang) and there were rumors of actually relocating the entrance of the park to somewhere in the back of the park. Of course, after Premier bought them and then the SF transition happened, nothing ever really came about with the park. SF apparently even tried relocating the entire park to some area near the KY Speedway, but they're probably lucky that never happened or I'm sure it wouldn't have made it.

Have you been on Manta yet? Just wondering... Anyway, I'm talking about the theming of the ride here - how close does it come to totally immersing you into some story or theme. I don't mean that Manta doesn't do that to some extent, but Animal Kingdom built an entire mountain and village around a roller coaster. Do I think Manta is a much, much better ride than Everest? Yes. Is it themed better? No, not even close to me. I think the queue line is awesome, and it's entertaining, but I don't feel like it's a better story than Everest or even RnRC probably. It's still an awesome ride and maybe even my favorite coaster in Orlando. Also, I know Tower of Terror doesn't count as a coaster, but that's an example of immersing someone into a theme to the extreme!

1. Dominator (only rode it back in Ohio) 2. Medusa/Bizarro 3. Kraken 4. Medusa (West) 5. Scream 6. Batman: Dark Knight I think 2,3, 4 all kind of run together and Batman at SFNE would be WAY below them. I loved Batman/Dominator in Ohio, it was so unique that it was by far my favorite floorless. The turn after the first massive loop is awesome and the drop off the block is pretty nice in the backseat too.

Yeah, it really is on a whole other level than any of the SUF rides. Of course SUF was more of an experimental layout for B&M probably. SUF, to me, was a pretzel loop and then some filler track to end the ride. Manta has the pretzel, but so many other highlights that you're almost constantly looking forward to the next element. I personally like it better than Tatsu, but it seems to be a toss up among most people that have been on both. I can't say the theming is the best for any coaster I've been on (not even the best in Orlando), but it's certainly better than almost any other coaster out there.

I've been on both Tatsu and Manta. I wrote about it more a few pages back. I think both pretzels are close to the same intensity, but Manta just seems to be more flowing and smooth to me than Tatsu. I liked Tatsu, but I like Manta better. The public seems to *love* Manta. I've heard a number of people at the park mention how much they enjoyed it. The number of people just standing around taking pictures would make you think you're at some ACE convention, minus all the dorkiness obviously!

^yeah, same here, I've never cared a lot for the flyers. I wouldn't say they rank at the bottom for me (stand-ups are probably there in terms of "types" of coasters), but I've never considered them to be something I really looked forward to riding. Tatsu was obviously the best I had been on before Manta, and I did like it, but I still wasn't dying to get back in line for it like I was Manta. I do think Tatsu is overall more intense probably. I'm not sure it's a top 10 ride for me, it's kind of hard to tell since it's so new right now and I'm excited because of that so that may sway my judgement some in it. I do think it just has a better overall experience than any of the other flyers I've been on though. The drop is good, pretzel is good, but then it turns into something way different that any other flyer I've been on with the inline twist, spiral drop and corkscrew elements. To me, it has the right combination of intense moments and "flying" moments. I'm really glad Sea World put the pretzel in though, because I had heard rumors way back that it wouldn't have one...

I finally got to ride Manta today and I have to say I was very impressed. The layout is great because it gives great visuals of guests all over Sea World, it has perfect B&M smoothness, and the ending is great with the low to the ground dives and close (sometimes too close) dives to the water. I was only able to manage 2 rides one in the middle and one in the very back. The queue line is cool, dark and provides plenty of entertainment while waiting. They even have a great soundtrack playing while waiting. As far as a comparison to the other flyers, I've been on both SFOG and SFGAd Superman rides and Tatsu - I think it's clearly a big step up from the Supermen ride and I honestly prefer it to Tatsu. I can see where a lot will like Tatsu better, but I think Manta gave an overall better mix of sensations than Tatsu and Tatsu seemed to just power it's way through the whole course (which is a good thing too). Manta had several intense moments, but some nice fast, gliding-type moments too which is when flyers are their best IMO. The pretzel on Manta was intense enough, maybe not quite as intense as Tatsu, but very close. However, I loved the sequence after the pretzel which was a roll over then an intensifying 270 degree spiral dive that went back, threaded the pretzel and did a corkscrew type element into the block brake. The ending was not very intense, but the interactions with the themeing, water and ground more than make up for it. In fact, the back seat gives a really nice sensation when you dive out of the block, something kind of unusal for a flyer. The length is fine and pretty much perfect. It's a rather quick (and deceptively high) climb to the top of the lift and you get great views of people walking below. The dive off the lift gives a great whip in the back row. Overall, I'm really excited about Manta and can't wait to go back and ride some more. Honestly, when it was first announced, I didn't know what to think because I've never been a big fan of flyers, but I think it's going to be a hit. I loved it and the public seemed to LOVE it too. I'm sure I'm leaving some good points out.

Raptor and the orignal Batman used to be only B&M's I could think of without steps on both sides until recently. It never really made sense to me why the other ones all had them on both sides, but that's one thing I liked about climbing Raptor's hill was the lack of steps on the left side. I'm glad they're not doing steps on both sides on most of the new rides, it made the lifts seem too wide to me.