SeaWhippet

There's a nice toasty place in Hell for jerks who get off by committing crimes against history.

You gotta love those 4-bench trains. I recall riding the Beast in the spring of that first season. The helix was uncovered (except for a roof -- no sides) and the ride, especially at night, was OUT OF CONTROL!

You would have thought that Arrow would have been able to tell from that prototype that the swinging on flat curves will kill the suspension systems very quickly. Not only a maintenance nightmare, but looks like it would have really hurt. Almost looks like being thrown against a wall as you went around the turn. I'm betting they rushed the first installation to get the recognition and product out without really doing much testing. If memory serves me right, there were a lot of amusement companies competing for parks business back in the early 80's so if you had something new and cool, you wanted the exposure as fast as you could. And without the internet, you had to rely on pictures and newspapers for word to get out about your product and how it was received. I can remember my one ride on The Bat at KI and it was really painful. But, in the end, Arrow did get it right after while. The Bat was an awesome ride. It could be downright scary if your first ride happened to be at night. I always tried to arrange such a treat for my virgin Bat friends And yes, had they banked the track on the turns, the Bat might still be with us today. That was its main flaw. Did they learn nothing from AlpenFlug? If I had a time machine ...

Beautiful pics! Wow, it's hard to believe they were able to fit two complete rides in THAT. Simply amazing. I wonder if anyone find other angles of this time of image? I'd love to see some film footage of rockets testing before the exterior was applied. It must exist out there somewhere ... -S

After speaking at Cedar Point at an event to celebrate Magnum XL-200's 10th anniversary (and sporting a slightly different style of eyeglasses), Mr. Toomer has been MIA. There have been rumored sightings, but nothing concrete. He's not MIA; he's just enjoying retirement out of the public eye. I spoke with Ron less than a year ago at his home and he was fine. We talked about a lot of things including a book he'd like to do on his many years with Arrow. We discussed me helping him with that when the time came, so we'll see what happens. I think it would be a fascinating read. -S

Well here they are. And while digging in my photo shoebox that is in my attic closet I also came across these momentos from that opening year of Sarejevo Bobsled. I also came across a bunch of stuff from my days of working at the parks, that will have to be a whole other post over in the attic one day. Wow, those were cool in a "Sound of Music" kind of way.

Excellent work, A! Now I know where all the blocks are. I'm constantly amazed that the Arrow boys managed to fit such a complex ride into THAT pre-determined steel framework. Bloody brilliant! Now if we can just see that profile ... -S

I love that footage. And yes, that's a sweet shot. Though I've riddden the Steeplechase at BPB, I missed the motorcycles on this ride. The Soap Box Racers were fun, but the lower center of gravity left something to be desired. Still, I wish they were there today. Removing this one-of-kind (at least in North America) attraction was not a very smart move, especially considering what replaced them. Bring back the Arrow Steeplechase! -S

That's a cool old clip. Notice that the corkscrew has been removed from the working prototype, and that area is now freshly painted white track. I expect Arrow did not want anyone to see footage of the vehicle whipping (or not) through the corkscrew. I'd love to have that model so I could expand the circuit.

Hey, Alp --- Looking forward to the completed layout. Any chance you can provide that crucial (for NL re-creations and general curiosity) side-elevation view of the dual courses? Even if you had to do it in sections, it would be nice to see a representation of the layout without the mountain/steel supports. Thanks, -S

Intamin approached the ride with the max-capacity mindset, which SF demanded. Unfortunately, that meant HUGE, heavy vehicles and that ugly steel trough. The Flying Turns was never meant to handle thousands per hour, but SF refused to accept that. Sad. Shane, I'd love to see those opening crew outfits ...

Just to clarify a little. Six Flags did not use Intamin Bobsleds as a replacement from the Arrow ones. There was several (5-6) years in between the scrapping of the Arrow prototype and the Intamin interpretation. Arrow used a fiberglass trough, you can see a section of it here in this picture. I love seeing Arrow prototypes I would love to go thru their old files. I wonder if all that stuff is stored up in the S&S plant or if it has all been lost? When did the first Intamin Bobsled show up ... 83-84ish? After Arrow's attempt did not go over so well in late 1980-81 (I wish it had as I'm not a fan of Intamin's WAYYYYYYY oversized vehicle and awkward steel trough), SF elected to go with Intamin. That gave the Swiss boys ... 2.5 years or so to R&D and get the ride into a park. Ron Toomer told me he thought they could've made it work if they'd had more time to work on the train.

Hehe ... yeah, Arrow tended to overbuild sometimes. Their Turns is a good example. For the most part, the problem with the ride was not the trough or structure, but the train. They had a bi*ch of time controlling it. Six Flags asked for five Turns rides, with the first slated for SFOT. Arrow went as far as fabricating the troughs for most of them. When the deal fell through -- and SF went with Intamin -- the troughs could be seen piled up off to the side of the Mountain View property for quite a while. Just imagine what might've been had Arrow continued and perfected the design ... I LOVE the suspended coaster concept. Though the inversion is not safely possible, I feel potential remains for this concept. Anyone who rode the KI Bat knows what an incredibly thrilling ride it was. With just a little banking, it's feasible that it could still be around today. -S

Actually, in that pic the train was not "in action." It's just hanging there.

Arrow did a lot of "experimenting." including a (tubular) take on the Virginia Reel. I interviewed Ron Toomer last year and learned A LOT about Arrow's early endeavors ... -S

Arrow

With all the recent chatter about Arrow's Pipeline, I thought this would be the perfect time to jump in with two other prototypes that never quite made it ... In the late 1970's, Arrow Development began to experiment with two new products: the Flying Turns and the Looping Suspended Coaster. Here are rare images (shot by Gary Slade in 1980) of both rides at the Mountain View, CA factory. The Turns had all kinds of issues such as trains that were difficult to control (note the roll bars). I know people who rode this beast ... and let's just say ... it was a WILD ride. Triva: Six Flags actually contracted with Arrow to build FIVE (!) Turns rides ... starting at SFOT. When the prototype proved "difficult" ... they went with Intamin. So, imagine all the SF that had the Swiss ride COULD've had an Arrow Turns if things had worked out differently. The Looping Suspended Coaster (note the corkscrew!!!) eventually became the Bat at Kings Island .. sans inversion. Unforturnately, Arrow learned nothing from the AlpenFlug disaster in Germany (1975) and elected NOT to bank the Bat's track, which led to its destruction. Enjoy these refugees from The Island of Misfit Rides. -S

Alpenguy, this is a great start! I look forward to the finished product. Do you plan to do a side elevation? Combined with the completed layout, I think it would be entirely possible to do a NoLimits ride from this. What did you mean "it really has much tighter clearances than any vehicles/track in that program allow?" Except for building two "separate" rides in NL (you'd have to make it a mobius track), I don't see any limitations for building the Matterhorn. Anyway, keep the details coming. This remains one of my favorite new threads! -S

This hand-drawn thing is OK for a general idea what the ride does, but I'd really like to see a side elevation & layout that's close to scale and accurate. Has anyone who knows the ride well enough done a NoLimits re-creation? That would tell a LOT! Any NoLimits guys up for the challenge?! Thats the reason why I searched for a good layout, so I could build it in no limits. I haven't gotten around to it yet, but I've gathered videos and the 3D renderings with multiple angles and one of them even spins so you can see every angle (though it does spin a bit fast). I will be able to post them on monday if you want. Sure' I'd love to see this 'spinning' 3D thing. Post away! Heck, I might even tackle the NoLimits attempt if I had enough accurate source material!

I guess it all has to do with bad planning. Just like when I drove to Charlotte on a Friday so I could ride White Lightnin'. Never in a million years would I have guessed that a theme park would have been closed on a Friday in the middle of summer. But Carowinds was and I never got to ride White Lightnin' Aside from the OV Rocket, which needed a certain number of riders before a train would return to the station, all the other coasters I visited but never got to ride were already closed ... with no hope of ever reopening. I remember when Carowinds closed on Fridays. Very strange. Sorry you missed White Lightning. At the very least, that one is still operating ... in South Africa. My dream is for Carowinds to get a new version of WL .. with a nice reliable LIM launch mechanism. Wieland Schwarzkopf, are you listening !?!

Great video, Shane. I love seeing the CN tower as the train crests the lift. I hope this treasure finds a home stateside (Mid-Atlantic preferably!). The CNE Flyer is ANOTHER woodie I visited and explored but never got to ride. Why were there so many?

Far too many to count or remember ... but I'll try: Ocean View Rocket Buckroe Beach Dips Wildwood Screem Machine West View Racing Whippet West View Dips West View Kiddie Coaster Hanson's Speed Hound Ponchartrain Beach Zephyr/Ragin' Cagin' Chippewa Lake Big Dipper/Wild Mouse Rocky Springs Wildcat Dallas Fair Park Comet CNE Flyer Belmont Park Earthquake (but came back to ride it as Giant Dipper!) I'm sure there are a few more but it's been a long week. I'll see what else is lurking in The Closet. -S

"Hi, Shane."

Thanks! I'm just glad people here are enjoying what we (Shane, myself and a few others) have to share. I've found it disheartening that many of today's coaster/park enthusiasts care little for the amusement industry's history, opting instead for the next mega-hyper-whatever. But the response we've gotten over the Attic/Closet/Shoebox/etc. threads has been rather refreshing. It's my hope that what we're doing here will inspire others to dig their into parents/grandparents' collections and pull out a few treasures that no one has seen for a long time! -S

This hand-drawn thing is OK for a general idea what the ride does, but I'd really like to see a side elevation & layout that's close to scale and accurate. Has anyone who knows the ride well enough done a NoLimits re-creation? That would tell a LOT! Any NoLimits guys up for the challenge?!