Password121

Is the wood essential in supporting the steel, like a traditions wooden coaster, or could the steel alone, is what I'm asking.

^^That is what my point was. There is no coaster in the that is devoted to multiple moments of weightlessness. Yes, I-305 has a few moments of ejector airtime, but its primary purpose is speed, positive g's, lateral g's, and an out of control feeling (QDC's).

Hey everyone- I got an SFA season pass this year, an was planning on going opening day. I noticed that SFA hasn't put up the being a friend tickes on their website, even though they were there a few months ago. When can I expect these to be posted? There's only 3 weeks til opening! Also, I went last October to Saturday FF and about half the coasters ran 1 train. Will this be the case on opening, or worse? Also, are opening day crowds generally better or worse than spring break crowds? Thanks

BUT, if the supports for the lift were the same as in the original rendering and if the track was painted the same as Outlaw Run, nobody would likely be making a big fuss about it...even those changes are really aesthetic only. Exactly. I think we've completely decided the supports don't make a difference. Here's my take on the track. Just like Outlaw Run, the track is still sitting on wood beams. Yes, the color makes it look steel, like NTaG or Iron Rattler, but even on SFOT's website they describe NTaG as hybrid, then go on to all it a wooden record breaking coaster. You could paint any wooden coasters track orange/red and there would probably be some questioning. Now, what I need to know before I make my final opinion: Does the coaster NEED the wood beams below the steel on the track to function, or is it simply there to classify as wooden? I.E. If I remove those (five?) beams, does the coaster function, or fall apart? I think that is the difference in whether it is wood or steel.

^I wouldn't say that. SFMM is adding coasters for the sake of adding coasters to reach 20 and attract people to the park. Cedar Point adds coasters (family flats?) in order to improve the park and guest experience, and although advertising it as a coaster is good for marketing, that, IMO, is not why they are adding it. SFMM has NO reason to add a fourth family coaster after adding so many recent coasters. We all know that, it's just a cheap way to help reach 20. Cedar Point adds coasters when they think it will benefit the park and guest experience, and while they have almost as many coasters as SFMM, they aren't really competing. Cedar point has already won the "coaster competition," but with quality, not quantity.

I find it strange that Six flags hasn't been marketing this ride more, or at least providing more information in the ride, queue, etc. For a world record breaking attraction at a park know to do so, you'd think they would want to release as much info about it as they can.

I'm not sure it's fair to include the flags on top as part of the height to claim it as the tallest. For example, if Kingda Ka and Dragster were the same height, yet one had a metal rod sticking up on the stairs connected to the top hat, and saying that one is taller. The maximum height may be taller, but the ride itself does not reach a greater height.

^^^^^ Umm... You kinda did. Also, when Raptor was built, I think the intention was to turn heads. Not for a new design, but for height, speed, and forces on an invert. Just my opinion.

I don't want to get off topic and start this argument again, but if the Voyage and Outlaw Run are wooden (wooden tracks), this is no different. Support structure doesn't determine track type. Has anyone (excluding GP) ever called Gemini at CP a wooden coaster?

^Well, to be fair, have newer B&M floorless coasters reached much higher speeds than Bizarro? It was a prototype, but that doesn't necessarily mean it was the slowest or worst. More recent floorless models are still very similar to Bizarro, and even though it isn't the most forceful, intense coaster, I find myself enjoying it more than most forceless B&M's. Maybe it's the theming, but there's something about it that makes it worth re-riding when the lines are bearable. Side note, I wouldn't call Raptor at CP forceless at all. Maybe it was just me, but I thought it was rather intense.

^Things certainly do seem more intense when you are very young. However, there always is a slight possibility that it has slowed down a couple mph. Not saying it did, but it's possible. I went to SFGadv my first time when I was about 7, and was horrified of RT. I only went on the Mine Train. I went again around age 11, and got my self on RT, as well as Bizarro, Nitro, and Superman. The next time about two years later, I got on Kingda Ka by myself and El Toro. Perceptions of coasters, at least for me, changed VERY quickly.

^It is interesting that Kumba has a similar layout and exactly the same order of elements: loop, dive loop, zero-g roll, cobra roll, interlocking corkscrews.

^I agree. Although Six Flags has been known to beat their own records, I think with the three 400ft. Skyscreamers they'll probably want to advertise them all as the world's tallest, just for the sake of claiming a record.

I was kind of kidding with the B&M hyper thing, getting a smaller "speed" coaster would seem almost counter intuitive to most GP. Most enthusiasts would probably love it, considering KD doesn't have a true airtime coaster, but enthusiasts alone wouldn't make them decide what type of coaster to invest in, unfortunately But my point is the same, B&M, at this point, provided that we haven't hear any backed rumors, looks like the most likely manufacturer due to CF's recent additions (Leviathan, GateKeeper, Banshee).

^If that is 125ft, then the lift should be far above the view on the webcam.

Many Cedar Fair parks have been adding B&M's over Intamins lately, and with I-305 issues last season and in 2010, I think it's very likely that KD will get a B&M for their next coaster. They could do the opposite of what CW did and get a B&M hyper... Edit: Oops! Meant I-305. 8-305 would be a VERY tall coaster.

^Or an Intamin Giga I was thinking back on Great Adventure's recent coaster additions- as for an RMC woodie, does anyone know the approximate cost of SFGam's Goliath this year? I think it's interesting that Great Adventure made two back to back huge gambles in '05 and '06, and since then, has spent very little (considering their history) on roller coasters. Dark Knight is listed at $7.5 million, and Green Lantern couldn't have been TOO costly to relocate. El Toro has probably the best ROI for any Great Adventure coaster considering its popularity, and Kingda Ka DEFINITELY has the lowest. This includes operating cost. Yes, it brings in guests and therefore money, but it was probably a poor FINANCIAL decision (I'm elaborating because I sense that I may get some backlash on this). My point is, since El Toro has had a decent record of consistent operations and little downtime, an RMC coaster may be another good decision for the park. If these recent additions all cost in the millions of dollars and El Toro only cost $12 million, we could be seeing another record breaking woodie in the very near future.

^I really hope you're right. I would be very happy if they did have a general idea for how they'll develop that area, connecting Frontier Adventures, Plaza del Carnaval and the Golden Kingdom would make that side of the park much easier to navigate. I hope they don't put a coaster in RT's footprint. I hope it is in Old Country, whether that is 2015 or 2016, and they put some flats in RT's footprint, just as long as they don't block off future development with a huge coaster. That would draw HUGE crowds to that area with KK, Zumanjaro, El Toro, and Bizarro already there.

I would agree with you, but I think Green Lantern hasn't been at the park long enough to be rotated. Also, SFNE has confirmed that they'll be getting two new coasters in the near future, and I just don't think it'll be rotated to a park that doesn't really need it. I think they'll stick to developing Old Country and RT footprint in the near future.

Have you been to Busch Gardens? You don't need to spend more than one day there! Its never crowded! I'd rank KD and BGW in the same category. SFA would be in the category below. I have, I was being kind of vague in that example, but the point is the same. Many families go to Busch Gardens and spend other days in colonial Williamsburg. In terms if coasters, it is on a similar level to KD.

Well, it varies for different rides. If their are dual loading stations and many trains operating (Dragster and Maverick), it shouldn't influence wait times too much. If FL was removed, wait times would decrease for these rides, but more so for rides like Raptor. Merging at entrance point and giving FL users priority GREATLY increases wait times for standby. Say standby riders are passing FL users at merge point half the time, that means for those behind the merge point, the line is 100% longer than without the FL line, as the line moves at half the pace it would without FL.

Just because the park doesn't get a lot of money invested in it doesn't mean it can't be a pleasant place to visit though. Thank you! I think SFA is a once-neglected park that is absolutely, 100% heading in the right direction. If management continues to add relocated coasters and flats that like they are doing now, SFA will greatly improve. I just don't think they will be competitive with parks like KD until other, more pressing issues are fixed. This starts with managements attitude towards operations, as well as other internal improvements that don't include coaster collection. I've mentioned my take on the coasters numerous times.

^I don't think they're trying o be SFGadv or SFMM. I think they're trying to improve the park and coaster/flat collection to attract more people to the park to be at least in the same category as Kings Dominion. Neither park, as it was mentioned, is a destination where visitors stay for multiple days at a time like Cedar Point or Busch Gardens. However, I don't think they're still in equal categories. Kings Dominion attracts regional attention, and people go out of their way to Kings Dominion, specifically for I-305. This is not true for SFA, and although Superman is their headliner coaster, it and the park are not in the same category as I-305 and Kings Dominion.

^^For the most part I completely agree with your argument. If Fast Lanes did not exist, the "stand by" lines would in theory be somewhat shorter. However, using myself as an example, I don't have the freedom to make a trip to Cedar Point when I'm in the mood for it, or just on your average weekend. I live about 1000 miles from the park, and had one day, actually, only 9 'til 4:30 or so because I had to make the trip back to the east coast that night. SO, I had only about 7 hours to experience the "Best Amusement Park In the World." Had I been able to stay until closing (which I really wanted to do) or come back next week or even next month, I would have no problems at all. But unfortunately I couldn't. I've never bought a Flash Pass to SFA (granted the lines are nothing like CP) because I don't feel the need to get as many rides as I can whenever I go, and feel that way even more so having a season pass this year. I also generally agree with what you said about not having a set plan. When I went, the only "plans" I had were for the first hour for early entry, and it went smoothly. I quickly got on GateKeeper, then Millennium, then got in line for Dragster at 10. After that, I knew what I wanted to ride, but also got in some rides in shorter lines, like Blue Streak and Windseeker. The only reason I bought the Pass was because I knew that I didn't have all day, especially at night when the lines are shorter, and wouldn't be back for quite a while, if ever. If I went on a May weekday, I probably wouldn't have bought it, but Independence day Saturday was my only option. In cases like this, the Fast Lane can be helpful. I just think it could have been more helpful given what it costs.

^Even thought the station isn't intact (which makes sense- that would REALLY limit their coaster/expansion future in that area), the fact that they left the queue should certainly be noticed. There is no reason for them to leave it there if they don't have plans to utilize it in the near future. Everyone is saying this is such a horrible thing, which I'm not saying it is or isn't, but that does give us some reassurance that that area won't be left bare for the next 10 years or closed off like Old Country. There is no guarantee that they'll actually use that space and/or build a new coaster there until they say so, which they haven't.