PayneTrain

Protip: sometimes, the old, old entrance/staff entrance off of Route 60 will have someone staffed there, and if you have a Platinum Pass or are willing to pay for preferred parking in England, it's a safe bet. I never had to try it last year, so I don't know if that closing was a trickle-down from ownership change.

I really like its eccentric, monolithic design. It just makes it Texas. I don't even know how to say it... it just looks cool.

This also probably kills off speculation that Mack is coming to Williamsburg. As much as I want some kind of Mack Ride in Virginia, it seems as if BGW/BGT management doubled ordered again.

Am I out of line saying that Dorney and Valleyfair are simply "too good" to get saddled with a boomerang as an addition? MiAd seems likely for me because they are a relatively small park, and a small addition would suit them well. KD would put a boomerang in vA, when you have one in SFA and Carowinds. CW isn't getting it either.

The saddest thing on this forum is the crying for the VEKOMA BOOMERANG's removal because it is a GREAT RIDE. Wut. I guess CGA is more lacking than I previously thought.

With all of the land they are clearing at Allentown Recycling/Dorney Park, I feel like it's going to slot in in the old Kiddieland/Laser area. I'd say it's going to Valleyfair, but I feel like they deserve better than a washed up boomerang. Then again, everyone does. The sick thing about CGA is that unlike GL, where the majority of people outside of CF weren't anticipating the closure until the summer of 2007, most can already smell this stink like it's a burning bag of crap. I think Cedar Fair wants to keep the park and compete in the Bay Area, but by taking out Stealth and Invertigo (2 shabby rollercoasters, that are roller coasters nonetheless), they are calling Santa Clara County's bluff in a way. The problem with that is that I don't see that panning out well for the citizens/parkgoers, the park, or the owners of the park. You can compare CGA to GL, but the fact is that I feel it's going to end up like Astroworld: A charming park, sucked of life by a floundering company and greedy, retarded officials and third parties. I hope it doesn't close before my West Coast Trip next year, but how many coasters left before GL got nailed in the coffin? How many broken promises will end up coming to light?

The CCI trio of hurricane, villain, and mega zeph. They operated 5-7 seasons on low attended parks.

Would definitely be an interesting story to tell. (Providing we make it out alive)[/kidding] [/i hope]

I'd call it the Salt Lick Sidewinder, since they can't use Return to Sender. However, given the creative team's more recent moves, I'm sure we will see "Timbuktu Wild Mouse Turbo," or some other lame name. tangent I want it back now in Williamsburg, please. Or send Scorpion. Yeah, send Scorpion. Gwazi Tiger+Gwazi Lion+Montu+Kumba+Sheikra+Scorpion+Wild Mouse+Sesame Street LNM+Alpengeist+Apollo's Chariot+Griffon+Grovers+2012 It's irritating how the otherwise better park gets the smaller and less fantastic coaster collection, but I guess it's because BGW is my home park. And my ridiculously high standards/borderline insane crusade for a good Schwarzkopf Looper in Virginia doesn't help. /tangent

I think Mack is the best ride manufacturer, mostly because of how diverse its portfolio is. They were able to build Europa Park with almost (?) everything out of their own catalog!

I guess that if the mystery owner doesn't take care of it, the owner of the land it sits on has the right to evict the tenant coaster by tearing it up. I guess then CF would bill the owner for it. Other than contributing to the general eyesore and disappointment that is the remnants of the main park, I don't see what the rush is. I guess they would rather have a controlled demolition than just let it collapse until the economy stops drowning and they can sell off and develop the land. I wish I could take GLT's fleet of pickup trucks and ram the coaster apart. I'm so sick of hearing about the Big Dipper, mostly because I feel like the enthusiast community as a whole will lose loads of credibility if this situation persists. It's not like we have to save Boulder Dash. Hell, I'd almost be in line to save XLR-8 before this coaster. If it was something special or remotely economically viable, Cedar Fair would have kept it.

I like the logo. I'm glad you aren't going headfirst into some "21st century rebranding" shenanigans like Comedy Central or THQ Publishing. I understand that you don't want to change the logo anymore, and you don't want any obscure slogans, but I think there is some sort of way you could manipulate the code to put in a different banner slogan depending on the page or just have it random. I took basic HTML and don't know it, so if you don't know or know anyone that does--I love it. KEEP IT!

It feels like they wanted an excuse to call it Verbolten. While it sounds like the coolest play on words ever, I'm a little sad it appears they are abandoning the "coasters-based-on-mythical-creatures" naming and theming in both BGT and BGW. Still, Verbolten--the way the name flows for me makes up for the genericness of Mach Tower.

I guess the offseason started for me on January 1st, with all parks in the area are dark until the third weekend in March. In reality, I haven't been to a park since September. I'm usually very occupied in the offseason. Between school, home projects, club projects, and a back-catalog of video games and sleep, it doesn't really hang over me. I'm excited to dream of a new park to go to in the Northeast or Southwest.

Considering it's SoCal, I wonder how many people will be disappointed that this wasn't a stop from the cocaine fairy, but just frozen water./terrible joke I'm disappointed, because the addition of cocaine at SFMM might make the OTSRs on Revolution or the lopsided operation of Colossus understandable. /less terrible joke

I'm looking forward to >NTG's final product. I want it to deliver so badly, even though I probably won't ride it this year. >Choosing between a southern midwest trip and a northeast trip! I took a Florida trip last year and a northern midwest trip the year prior to that. >Finding out exactly what's going to be coming to my home park, BGE, in 2012! >Watching the websites for some 2012 California plans. I can't go to WCB or the Northeast trip this year, and the Cedar Point Trip doesn't seem appealing to me. Hopefully I can go to WCB 2012 and hopefully have my current count of 105 doubled after it! The completion of DCA v1.9 will be interesting. >Actually going to my home park more often. >Being a part of TPR!/cheesy

Regarding Eagle's Fortress, I'm not denying that it's the best coaster on the planet, but no one really seemed to notice probably because virtually no one had actually ridden it. I would estimate maybe under 0.1% of enthusiasts have ridden it, versus a fairly large percent for BBW (30%+?). Plus, even fewer people would actually notice it's absence, given their likelihood of revisits. I was going to say something about this. I think Mitch said that six people put it in their top 3, and there was not a lot of data from the poll. However, the people who voted Eagle's Fortress (I'm assuming some of these people have posted in the thread) are industry-aware enough to justify the choice.

I can't deny the failure that lies on the cursed Fantasy Harbor land, (seriously, it's cursed. Never open a business there), but Six Flags under Premier basically brought the amusement industry, as a whole, to the closest it will ever get to its "Dark Ages". Because of Premier's ownership, directly or indirectly, four parks were shuttered. SFKK, SW-Ohio/SFWOA/GL, SFNO, and Astroworld, were all closed because of it. The most annoying is that 3 of them sit untouched by the recession and disaster. Houston was just too proud to tear down the Astrodome, so the park went instead. The company had to file for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection. That can be considered lucky, since the former great American coaster company, Arrow (I know they aren't the best, and are rather painful, but they are classic!) was pretty much driven into bankruptcy by Six Flags (and the fact they had fewer and fewer successful installations of rides) with the construction of X, then bought by S&S to do... almost nothing. Almost every single Schwarzkopf designed for Six Flags have no plans to enter a park's coaster collection (save for KK possibly bringing back theirs). SFMM lost the most coasters title. Six Flags under Premier was very greedy, cookie-cutting ride after ride to make as much money as possible, while in reality, horribly failing to do so. So many people lost their jobs, so many citizens lost their park, and the damage will likely never be rectified. Six Flags is the AIG of the industry. It failed, and it failed a lot.

Well, 42.7% of statistics are made up on the spot... I head it was 86%... There is little question that the suspended could be revived if a major manufacturer wanted to. Intimidator's track style, with what I call the super-rail, is designed to support more weight on the track between supports, so why couldn't you transfer a gravitational force resistance to a lateral force resistance? I don't know if I would be too eager to ride an Intamin suspended roller coaster on thefirst run, because that's a kind of ride where the barriers probably need to be slowly deconstructed instead of obliterated. Mack and Vekoma definitely have the ability to start these kind of projects as well, and I see the wing riders as a progression of the suspended coaster.

The difference between the closure of the Matterhorn from the Wolf is that while one ends up on niche fan sites, the other one gets on AOL and probably hits the AP wire.

You're in so much depression-level denial you think it's 2009!

I guess you mean Iron Dragon, which I affectionateally call "Draggin Iron," or Time Bomb, since it's probably going to be the next coaster removed, especially when it sits near Mantis, Millie, and Wildcat. I think the ride has a top speed of 40mph. It's the slowest damn 40mph in the world. On your note of the rankings, I guess Ninja is the best of the rest now. Considering how fast Ninja goes, I wouldn't be surprised if the track is cracking and the ride is having a lion's share of maintenance issues at SFMM. It'll either be the next to go, or face a Vampire-level facelift, which would really be cool for that ride, providing the trains give a smooth ride. *** Also, do you think the Wolf's replacement will get by with a 42" hight requirement? I can see it going to 46 or 48 inches. If it's a Mack, it might even hit 50.

Absolutely! Think about the operational and mechanical challenges that ride faces: - Two lift hills - Track over water - Trains that include multiple shocks on each car of each train - It's 25 years old - The TWO companies that originally built and designed it no longer exist. - The coaster no longer got the annual ridership it did 10-15 years ago I'm sure there are more, and when a park looks at how much money they have to spend annually to keep up a 25 year old ride versus buying something that is new which comes with less baggage and is more marketable for years to come. I am sure that meetings were had to discuss the cost to keep BBW over the next ten years and the return that would generate versus building a new coaster. I never said I thought the ride wasn't really cool. I really like Arrow suspendeds also. I never said that people shouldn't get nostalgic over it. I too have lots of wonderful memories from coasters no longer with us. I'm just saying that I don't think the ride was as be-all, end-all good as the mourners are making it out to be. --Robb Hearing this from you made my day, on here at least. I was never clear, I guess, on how I loved it, but have had it set in my mind since 2007 (the opening of Griffon) that the Big Bad Wolf was running on borrowed time. In a literal way, it was. Over the course of the late 90's (I think, it was mid-life) 90% or so of the Wolf's track was replaced. In fact the only original track left by the closing, if I remember my reading correctly, was the near end of the brake run and the station. Vekoma manufactures maintenance parts for Arrow rides in operation, i believe. Still parts for the suspended model are harder to find than the commonplace Arrow Looper/Corckscrews because of the rarity of the ride type, before you even consider the complexity of one Swinger car compared to an Arrow Looper as a whole. Nessie isn't budging for a while because it is so much easier and probably cheaper to upkeep than the Wolf. I think the trains on the track were Vekoma, but still, it's like trying to fit an oval peg in a circular hole; it's gonna give you some resistance. The Wolf was also like a mini-mountain range in the way of the parks Manifest Destiny of sorts--by which I mean future expansion. Here is a quote from another board I post on (BGEscape; I know I can't link directly, so I won't): And I also had a rational realization of why this was happening. Those are my pre-announcement of the removal/speculation thoughts, sans nostalgia. This is my HONEST opinion.

Don't you think you're investing a lot in a ride that couldn't even crack the top #100 most years and the park didn't find it valuable enough to keep? Touche! --Robb "No hard feelings..." Alvey Don't you think you put too much faith in a totally subjective poll to the point where you come across as someone who bases their theme park decisions off of its outcome? Robb, you sound like you think the ride wasn't worth the footers that were poured for it. If the Hawker bible was released for you back in 1984, would the wolf still not crack the top 100/threshold of glory? In thirty years, when Alpengeist is facing dismantling, are you going to say, "Well it hasn't ben in the top 100 for years, so it maybe it wasn't that good."

Don't you think you' re investing a lot in a coaster that hasn't had a formal announcement or even a leak.